# Is changing my name to a name with a Scandinavian character “ø” in it a bad idea? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 13, 2024, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-changing-my-name-to-a-name-with-a-scandinavian-character-o-in-it-a-bad-idea/1007217 "2024-09-13T15:59:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2024, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-changing-my-name-to-a-name-with-a-scandinavian-character-o-in-it-a-bad-idea/1007217/81 "2024-09-15T13:35:08Z")
Some systems have an option for a nickname or preferred name. ---
**Author:** ![Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/q.q.switcheroo/32/5713_2.png) [@Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.Q.Switcheroo)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2024, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-changing-my-name-to-a-name-with-a-scandinavian-character-o-in-it-a-bad-idea/1007217/82 "2024-09-15T13:35:59Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > I think this happens a lot, where immigrants take on a fully different Western first name and then a last name that bears some passing resemblance to the original but is still pretty distorted. Yep - as someone who transferred to a school with a large Chinese-American population, it took me a while to realize why so many teachers asked us if there was “a different name we wanted to be called.” ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2024, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-changing-my-name-to-a-name-with-a-scandinavian-character-o-in-it-a-bad-idea/1007217/83 "2024-09-15T13:36:48Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > Some systems have an option for a nickname or preferred name. Police records are really good at that. ---
**Author:** ![Mops](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mops/32/16494_2.png) [@Mops](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mops)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2024, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-changing-my-name-to-a-name-with-a-scandinavian-character-o-in-it-a-bad-idea/1007217/84 "2024-09-15T13:46:43Z")
I’d expect _any_ deviation from narrowly understood conventions to lead to problems. For example my full legal name is wholly within [a-zA-Z\ -], but I still get the following problems: - my first first name is a nonstandard spelling of a pretty common first name, and I very often need address that people think I misspelled my own name. (Advantage: my name, if spelled correctly, seems to be unique worldwide) - something that is sometimes annoying: my second first name (that only figures on ID and on documents where I get in trouble when they disagree with ID) has a hyphen, i.e. my full legal name has the format One Two-Three Four. It seems that all airlines as well as some ferry lines etc do not accept the hyphen, i.e. only allow me to input One Two Three Four. Intelligent automatic ID controls have been able to deal with it up to now, but I may still come up against stupid software or a stupid official yet, ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2024, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-changing-my-name-to-a-name-with-a-scandinavian-character-o-in-it-a-bad-idea/1007217/85 "2024-09-15T14:08:52Z")
> [@Napier](#): > > I think it’d be much worse than this, because you won’t be able to predict how they will re-bastardize it. It means you will have a wildcard character in your name. This. When I was forced to get a Real ID I found out that were _multiple_ bastardizations of my name. Without getting into too much detail - the name I was _forced_ to assume on my Real ID (because Indiana insisted they knew what my name is and I somehow don’t), the ID that would allow me into an airport, now had FOUR names on it, including one that I actually use misspelled (I was asked to produce a document on why it had changed from what was on my birth certificate - WTF? - because apparently some asshole somehow decided my first name wasn’t long enough and had to be a diminutive of a longer name even though it wasn’t and never has been), and my pilot’s license, the one that would actually let me fly airplanes, had only TWO names on it (both correctly spelled). And I was told TSA could legally keep me away from both due to all this being “suspicious”. In the future I could be barred from train or bus travel as well (because why not scare the hell out of people, right?) How much of a headache was it? I determined that going to court to make my name officially just one thing, spending hundreds of dollars to do that, was the least expensive and least inconvenient thing I could do. So that’s what I did. I went to court to make sure I had my name the way I wanted it, as an official, court-sanctioned declaration. All my ID’s now match up. I still get mail with bastardizations of my name, including new ones, so the databases still have bad data in them and it keeps mutating. I just hope to Og I don’t have to go through this all again in another 20 or 30 years. The stuff from the state and Feds is still OK, though, so I’m probably alright. My one nonstandard character? A hyphen. Just a single hyphen. Keep in mind that I had been using _just one form of my name_ for over 35 years. Absolutely consistently. No exceptions whatsoever. I had to go to court because _other people_ screwed up my name and, apparently, their word was taken over mine. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2024, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-changing-my-name-to-a-name-with-a-scandinavian-character-o-in-it-a-bad-idea/1007217/86 "2024-09-15T14:17:20Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > What is the problem? A person’s legal name may be different from their preferred name, but that is not an actual problem, since the only purpose for a legal name is for the government to be able to identify you. So… you’ve never changed your name? You’ve never encountered a problem where your name was mistyped into and Official Database and you’re told there’s no way to fix it? The problem is that a lot of other things now require your legal name beyond the government. More and more your legal name is your only option. Yes, it is a problem for many people even if it has never been a problem for you, personally. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2024, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-changing-my-name-to-a-name-with-a-scandinavian-character-o-in-it-a-bad-idea/1007217/87 "2024-09-15T14:26:41Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > It does not have to be their “real” name, whatever that might be. My real name is the name I want everyone to use in addressing me, it’s the name I answer to, it’s the name I want to use for everything in my life. Calling me something else as my name is, in fact, both painful and offensive to me. > [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > The only purpose is so you can be identified for government services. It is not required that it has personal meaning to you. In the USA that is called a “social security number” and has the advantage of only utilizing a 10-digit and a hyphen as a character set. And we have to act like that’s a Top Secret national security factoid to keep bad actors from using it to steal our identities, money, and lives. Your hypothetical name practice would just move the problem from numbers to alphabet characters. I don’t see how that solves any problems whatsoever. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2024, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-changing-my-name-to-a-name-with-a-scandinavian-character-o-in-it-a-bad-idea/1007217/88 "2024-09-15T14:34:15Z")
Well, all the stories tell about the power of your secret true name. Of course you need to keep your SSN secret. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2024, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-changing-my-name-to-a-name-with-a-scandinavian-character-o-in-it-a-bad-idea/1007217/89 "2024-09-15T14:46:00Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > Getting slightly off topic, but you’d think it wouldn’t be that hard to develop systems that recognized that some people go by their middle names. idk, how about a hypothetical Juan Eduardo González Rodríguez? None of those being middle names (specifically, two given names and two surnames). No hyphens. Goes by “Lalo”. This is why I figured, and still do, that having an ø in your name is nothing, relatively speaking. > [@Broomstick](#): > > So that’s what I did. I went to court to make sure I had my name the way I wanted it, as an official, court-sanctioned declaration. All my ID’s now match up. It is f’d up that you had to go through this ordeal and obtain an official declaration just to get your name un-screwed up on various documents. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2024, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-changing-my-name-to-a-name-with-a-scandinavian-character-o-in-it-a-bad-idea/1007217/90 "2024-09-15T16:38:53Z")
IMO, there is a difference between someone who moves to a location in which systems do not respect the traditional spelling of their name, and the OP, who seems to be considering “correcting” a bastardization that occurred some generations ago. To me, that smacks of an affectation. Which is fine. Change your name to whatever non-English spelling you wish. Just don’t act surprised when you encounter the expected challenges described in this thread, and don’t be THAT GUY who whines about how their CHOSEN unconventionality is not adequately recognized by everyone else. Most people - including most bureaucrats - couldn’t give a shit what your name is. But they COULD give a shit about something that makes their jobs more difficult. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2024, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-changing-my-name-to-a-name-with-a-scandinavian-character-o-in-it-a-bad-idea/1007217/91 "2024-09-15T18:43:42Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > non-English spelling Ælfrǣd was pretty English, one could argue ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2024, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-changing-my-name-to-a-name-with-a-scandinavian-character-o-in-it-a-bad-idea/1007217/92 "2024-09-15T18:49:52Z")
Fine. Non modern English, then. But, of course, you knew that was what I meant. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2024, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-changing-my-name-to-a-name-with-a-scandinavian-character-o-in-it-a-bad-idea/1007217/93 "2024-09-15T19:11:48Z")
I find myself just asking the person to spell their name. Let’s say it is “Cate”. Do I want to guess how it is spelled? I write down whatever she says, double-checking if necessary. Also, England is pretty diverse, and even if it weren’t, as we know not everybody comes from there. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2024, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-changing-my-name-to-a-name-with-a-scandinavian-character-o-in-it-a-bad-idea/1007217/94 "2024-09-15T19:14:01Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > You’ve never encountered a problem where your name was mistyped into and Official Database and you’re told there’s no way to fix it? Where did I say that name changes shouldn’t be allowed? Certainly all systems should allow for the correction of errors. And there are legitimate reasons to allow name changes. But the system doesn’t need to incorporate every idiosyncratic way to express a name, such as Prince’s symbol or everything in Unicode. > [@Broomstick](#): > > Yes, it is a problem for many people even if it has never been a problem for you, personally. Not me, though my dad has always gone by his middle name, not his legal name. Never bothered to change it. Never caused him any problems, as far as I know. It’s pretty clear-cut when he has to use one vs. the other. > [@Broomstick](#): > > Your hypothetical name practice would just move the problem from numbers to alphabet characters. I didn’t say the name would be a unique identifier. That’s not true today and it wouldn’t be true after any changes. The only goal is to reduce the error rate when inputting or translating the name. And while it doesn’t seem like a reduced character set would have solved your problems, it would solve those _sorts_ of problems, where people have several bastardizations of their name in different databases due to operator error or limits of the database. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2024, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-changing-my-name-to-a-name-with-a-scandinavian-character-o-in-it-a-bad-idea/1007217/95 "2024-09-15T19:18:04Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > I didn’t say the name would be a unique identifier. That’s not true today and it wouldn’t be true after any changes. Friend made a restaurant reservation. Name of Jones. Turned out it wasn’t unique, but somehow the situation was straightened out. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2024, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-changing-my-name-to-a-name-with-a-scandinavian-character-o-in-it-a-bad-idea/1007217/96 "2024-09-15T19:54:01Z")
> [@DPRK](#): > > how about a hypothetical Juan Eduardo González Rodríguez? None of those being middle names (specifically, two given names and two surnames). > [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > Not me, though my dad has always gone by his middle name, not his legal name. I’m wondering what others mean by “middle name”. To me, it’s a second given name. And if it’s on the birth certificate or other official document, it’s also a legal name. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2024, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-changing-my-name-to-a-name-with-a-scandinavian-character-o-in-it-a-bad-idea/1007217/97 "2024-09-15T20:02:47Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > To me, it’s a second given name. Cultural thing, I guess. I consider my middle name useless and mildly annoying, like my appendix. It seems that they’re typically picked as either the second-best name on the parent’s list or after some other family member (and therefore might be pretty old-fashioned sounding). Either way, it’s usually a throwaway. The form had a box and they put something there. But sometimes the kid doesn’t like their first name or it collides with someone else, and they go by their middle. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2024, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-changing-my-name-to-a-name-with-a-scandinavian-character-o-in-it-a-bad-idea/1007217/98 "2024-09-15T20:13:52Z")
> [@DPRK](#): > > > [@Broomstick](#): > > > > So that’s what I did. I went to court to make sure I had my name the way I wanted it, as an official, court-sanctioned declaration. All my ID’s now match up. > > It is f’d up that you had to go through this ordeal and obtain an official declaration just to get your name un-screwed up on various documents. Agreed. Indiana is apparently especially jerkish about name variations (they tolerate _zero_ variation - if your name is “Stephen” it better be with a “ph” everywhere because if it’s ever spelled “Steven” there will be hell to pay, as an example) and there were several media stories a few years ago about how this was hitting women especially hard due to expected name changes at marriage. What it came down to was that Indiana would accept 1) the woman taking the man’s last name but keeping her first and middle the same, 2) the woman hyphenating her and the man’s name, or 3) the woman changing her surname, using her maiden surname as a middle name (but dropping her original one) and that was it. Any other name change associated with marriage would require a full-on go-to-court change of name. Technically, NOT changing her name would be legal but the system is so entrenched that apparently a lot of women found out their surname had been changed by a clerk somewhere and now there’s an issue with the state insisting her name was now something she’d never changed it to. Or women finding out their name had been entered with 2 or more of the allowed variations and now they were “suspicious” for “claiming” they had multiple legal named. Yeah, really f’ed up. Clearly whoever was in charge of this in Indiana was a man who never even for a moment considered that the majority of women in the state change their legal name at least once. I could go on, but I won’t. The point is, changing your name can be a real pain in the ass, and having an usual name can also be a pain in the ass, and combining the two can leave both your buttocks hurting. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2024, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-changing-my-name-to-a-name-with-a-scandinavian-character-o-in-it-a-bad-idea/1007217/99 "2024-09-15T20:28:36Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > Where did I say that name changes shouldn’t be allowed? Certainly all systems should allow for the correction of errors. Newflash - no, not all systems allow for change of name. I agree they should, but in the real world sometimes they don’t. > [@Pleonast](#): > > I’m wondering what others mean by “middle name”. To me, it’s a second given name. And if it’s on the birth certificate or other official document, it’s also a legal name. Typical American names are a first name - which is typically written first on official documents and forms - and a surname or last name which is the names (usually) shared by everyone in the immediate family and comes last on official documents and forms. Most Americans also have another name between the first and the last, hence the term “middle name”. Normally, there are all three and just three. It used to be that your “legal name” was what you used as your legal name as an adult, which typically looked like what was on your birth certificate (for men) or marriage license (for women), perhaps with some variation - Ed instead of Edward, or Kate instead of Katherine, or maybe J. Paul Jones instead of John P. Jones but as long as you were consistent and it was just human beings involved (who would know that Kate was a diminutive of Katherine, or that some people went by their first initial/middle name instead of first name/middle initial) it worked. Now, under Real ID, your legal name is NOT what you may have been using for decades, it’s what appears on your birth certificate, the FULL first/middle/last with absolutely no variation whatsoever. There is still some leeway, but we are moving to a system where there is no longer any choice without a court proceeding in front of a judge. Then we get the stupid typo errors - I know someone who can’t get a Real ID because his birth certificate has a typo where December is spelled Dec3mber (look at a QWERTY keyboard - those keys are close together) made back when this information was entered by humans on typewriters. He has been told the ONLY way he can get a Real ID is to go to court to have his birth certificate corrected. Everyone can see that’s a typo, but it’s not correctable in this state without a court proceeding. Anyhow - a lot of my fellow Americans seem to think a middle name is a legal requirement. No, it’s not. I don’t have one. I don’t feel a need for one. Likewise, there are probably an equal number of Americans who have two first names (like Billy Bob or Amanda Jo or Mary Sue) or two middle names, and a growing population of people from Spanish-speaking countries using two surnames, or people whose names are just initials and not full names, or…it goes on. And it’s been going on since forever because there was never at any time just one mandated naming convention in this country however much people might think there was. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2024, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-changing-my-name-to-a-name-with-a-scandinavian-character-o-in-it-a-bad-idea/1007217/100 "2024-09-15T20:52:52Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Newflash - no, not all systems allow for change of name. Then what was the point of the comment? The primary thing I objected to originally is that we should allow literally _all_ Unicode characters. Which is hardly an unusual position given that this is already how things work. I then made the further suggestion that the character set be limited to A-Z. Which is really just a way of saying that since some systems (and the people that run them) will restrict to that anyway, the way to minimize (but not eliminate) discrepancies is to bastardize _once_ at the very beginning in a way that is least uncomfortable to the user. Then we can switch to Baudot codes for a 37% savings over ASCII (that was a joke) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-changing-my-name-to-a-name-with-a-scandinavian-character-o-in-it-a-bad-idea/1007217.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-changing-my-name-to-a-name-with-a-scandinavian-character-o-in-it-a-bad-idea/1007217.md?page=6)