# Is Cheney insane? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 7, 2006, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cheney-insane/355775 "2006-05-07T17:18:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e480ec/32.png) [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Least_Original_User_Name_Ever)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2006, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cheney-insane/355775/41 "2006-05-09T20:38:13Z")
Well, if there’s enough yelling and if choice words and phrases are used, it might be more than the price of gas that starts World War III. It WOULD start over fossilized remains, wouldn’t it? Kind of ironic. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2006, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cheney-insane/355775/42 "2006-05-12T18:08:19Z")
[QUOTE=tomndebb] Alternatively, since there are indications that Putin would be more than happy to turn Russia into the Soviet Union Lite–with central control, ambitions of regional hegemony, and the suppression of civil liberties within the country . . . [/QUOTE] Whaddaya mean, “would be”?! The thing is already accomplished! > **[Have the Russians already lost interest in democracy?](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=351926)** > > President Vladimir Putin of Russia just got Parliament to approve a bill bringing non-governmental organizations (NGOs) under state control: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051230/ap\_on\_re\_eu/russia\_ngos\_1 The post-Soviet Russian Federation has turned... ---
**Author:** ![Homebrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Homebrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Homebrew)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2006, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cheney-insane/355775/43 "2006-05-12T19:53:28Z")
[QUOTE=ralph124c] Putin has told us he’s not going to stop trading with Iran [/QUOTE] That’s selling Putin short. Russia and China are welcoming Iran as a full member of the Shanghai Cooperation Organization. I think the SCO is strengthening itself to be a counterweight to Europe and the U.S. ---
**Author:** ![Age\_Quod\_Agis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d07c76/32.png) [@Age\_Quod\_Agis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Age_Quod_Agis)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2006, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cheney-insane/355775/44 "2006-05-15T23:55:52Z")
[QUOTE=Least Original User Name Ever] We in America are actually rather snowed when it comes to Communist or former Communist countries (lump Iran into this if you feel the need). They’re not as bad and as evil as ew’ve been led to believe . . . . [/quote] I’m sure the fact that the Communist nations aren’t as evil as we’ve been led to believe is very reassuring to the [62 million Soviets killed by the USSR, and the 35 million Chinese killed by the People’s Republic](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/021018.html) (Numbers 1 and 2 on Rummel’s list of the most murderous regimes). As noted by Unca Cece, the most murderous regimes in the period studied were communist and fascist, which accounted for 84% of democidal deaths. And that’s just the murders. In fact, communism appears uniquely incapable of co-existing with human rights and freedoms, economic or otherwise. Can you name one communist regime that actually has a human rights record? > [@](#): > > I point to Cuba as an example of how we’re so used to see a country, through our media, in a certain light…a very unflattering light. Unfortunately, that filter is often inaccurate or just plain false. Most people would point to Cuba as yet another example of how Communism is bad. Cuba is mired in poverty, and human rights are practically non-existent under Castro’s regime. From [Human Rights Watch:](http://hrw.org/english/docs/2005/03/10/cuba10306.htm) > [@](#): > > Despite the release in 2004 of fourteen of the seventy-five political dissidents, independent journalists, and human rights advocates prosecuted in April 2003, human rights conditions in Cuba have not improved. The Cuban government systematically denies its citizens basic rights to free expression, association, assembly, movement, and a fair trial. It restricts nearly all avenues of political dissent, and uses police warnings, surveillance, short term-detentions, house arrests, travel restrictions, criminal prosecutions, and politically-motivated dismissals from employment as methods of enforcing political conformity. ---
**Author:** ![Ryan\_Liam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ryan_liam/32/3965_2.png) [@Ryan\_Liam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ryan_Liam)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2006, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cheney-insane/355775/45 "2006-05-16T01:03:24Z")
[QUOTE=Homebrew] That’s selling Putin short. Russia and China are welcoming Iran as a full member of the Shanghai Cooperation Organization. I think the SCO is strengthening itself to be a counterweight to Europe and the U.S. [/QUOTE] Will never be as strong though, considering that the flow of information is restricted as their governments require, and the Western economic powers advocate a free flow of information ideas etc, this economic cooperation between some Eastern powers will never emerge as strong as it’s Western equivalent. ---
**Author:** ![Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e480ec/32.png) [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Least_Original_User_Name_Ever)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2006, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cheney-insane/355775/46 "2006-05-16T01:25:18Z")
[QUOTE=Age Quod Agis] I’m sure the fact that the Communist nations aren’t as evil as we’ve been led to believe is very reassuring to the [62 million Soviets killed by the USSR, and the 35 million Chinese killed by the People’s Republic](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/021018.html) (Numbers 1 and 2 on Rummel’s list of the most murderous regimes). As noted by Unca Cece, the most murderous regimes in the period studied were communist and fascist, which accounted for 84% of democidal deaths. And that’s just the murders. In fact, communism appears uniquely incapable of co-existing with human rights and freedoms, economic or otherwise. Can you name one communist regime that actually has a human rights record?Most people would point to Cuba as yet another example of how Communism is bad. Cuba is mired in poverty, and human rights are practically non-existent under Castro’s regime. From [Human Rights Watch:](http://hrw.org/english/docs/2005/03/10/cuba10306.htm) [/QUOTE] Cuba isn’t “Communist” anymore. They’re Socialist. You wanna lump those two terms together? I wasn’t referencing how the USSR or China had killed many of their own people, which is of course a reprehensible thing. I’m just pointing out that our knee jerk reaction to other governmental forms is partly done over ignorance. They do things differently over there. Because difference implies (or at least can imply, to some) that one is better or worse, we’re also inclined to think that ours is better because we see press on how theirs is worse and how if it were better, we’d have it…so it can’t be better! Part of the problem…well, not problem..the miscommunication with how Communist or Socialist goverments communicate with the status quo is because Capitalism is the overwhelmingly dominant ideology on the world stage today. Western countries wrote those rules under Western ideologies. It seems inevitable that countries that don’t hold the same ideals as Western countries would score badly on those scales, no? Cuba has a decent civil rights effort, actually. They split from segregation before we did and are more proactive in race relations over the past 50 or so years. You mean that the US’s constantly constricting embargo on Cuba has nothing to do with how poor it is? I’d think that Cuba would be a lot more prosperous if its nearest neighbor, and the most powerful country in the world, didn’t hate them for their own, secret reasons. How do we want to define “civil rights”? Are we happy with how we’re discussing it now? ---
**Author:** ![Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e480ec/32.png) [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Least_Original_User_Name_Ever)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2006, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cheney-insane/355775/47 "2006-05-16T01:24:44Z")
[QUOTE=Age Quod Agis] I’m sure the fact that the Communist nations aren’t as evil as we’ve been led to believe is very reassuring to the [62 million Soviets killed by the USSR, and the 35 million Chinese killed by the People’s Republic](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/021018.html) (Numbers 1 and 2 on Rummel’s list of the most murderous regimes). As noted by Unca Cece, the most murderous regimes in the period studied were communist and fascist, which accounted for 84% of democidal deaths. And that’s just the murders. In fact, communism appears uniquely incapable of co-existing with human rights and freedoms, economic or otherwise. Can you name one communist regime that actually has a human rights record?Most people would point to Cuba as yet another example of how Communism is bad. Cuba is mired in poverty, and human rights are practically non-existent under Castro’s regime. From [Human Rights Watch:](http://hrw.org/english/docs/2005/03/10/cuba10306.htm) [/QUOTE] Cuba isn’t “Communist” anymore. They’re Socialist. You wanna lump those two terms together? I wasn’t referencing how the USSR or China had killed many of their own people, which is of course a reprehensible thing. I’m just pointing out that our knee jerk reaction to other governmental forms is partly done over ignorance. They do things differently over there. Because difference implies (or at least can imply, to some) that one is better or worse, we’re also inclined to think that ours is better because we see press on how theirs is worse and how if it were better, we’d have it…so it can’t be better! Part of the problem…well, not problem..the miscommunication with how Communist or Socialist goverments communicate with the status quo is because Capitalism is the overwhelmingly dominant ideology on the world stage today. Western countries wrote those rules under Western ideologies. It seems inevitable that countries that don’t hold the same ideals as Western countries would score badly on those scales, no? Cuba has a decent civil rights effort, actually. They split from segregation before we did and are more proactive in race relations over the past 50 or so years. You mean that the US’s constantly constricting embargo on Cuba has nothing to do with how poor it is? I’d think that Cuba would be a lot more prosperous if its nearest neighbor, and the most powerful country in the world, didn’t hate them for their own, secret reasons. How do we want to define “civil rights”? Are we happy with how we’re discussing it now? ---
**Author:** ![Ryan\_Liam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ryan_liam/32/3965_2.png) [@Ryan\_Liam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ryan_Liam)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2006, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cheney-insane/355775/48 "2006-05-16T01:34:19Z")
> [@](#): > > Cuba isn’t “Communist” anymore. They’re Socialist. You wanna lump those two terms together? The Cuban government still imprisons innocents and represses political parties from opposing Castro, thus is anti democratic. Some socialist countries can be democratic, but there is no Communist country on Earth which hasn’t been anything but totalitarian. > [@](#): > > I wasn’t referencing how the USSR or China had killed many of their own people, which is of course a reprehensible thing. I’m just pointing out that our knee jerk reaction to other governmental forms is partly done over ignorance. They do things differently over there. Because difference implies (or at least can imply, to some) that one is better or worse, we’re also inclined to think that ours is better because we see press on how theirs is worse and how if it were better, we’d have it…so it can’t be better! Dude, it was worse because it had to put up a concrete wall in the middle of Berlin to stop people from leaving, educated professionals couldn’t stand the place, let alone the actual working class. > [@](#): > > Part of the problem…well, not problem..the miscommunication with how Communist or Socialist goverments communicate with the status quo is because Capitalism is the overwhelmingly dominant ideology on the world stage today. Western countries wrote those rules under Western ideologies. It seems inevitable that countries that don’t hold the same ideals as Western countries would score badly on those scales, no? Capatalism isn’t a Western concept, it’s an idea of trading which incorporates Humans natural desire for wealth, security and betterment of self through the earning of money or barter, there’s my generalised view of it. > [@](#): > > Cuba has a decent civil rights effort, actually. They split from segregation before we did and are more proactive in race relations over the past 50 or so years. Yet have no free press or political representation other than Castro approved Unions and workers parties. Give me the Western model any time of the day. > [@](#): > > You mean that the US’s constantly constricting embargo on Cuba has nothing to do with how poor it is? I’d think that Cuba would be a lot more prosperous if its nearest neighbor, and the most powerful country in the world, didn’t hate them for their own, secret reasons. Like Castro nearly bringing WWIII to the US doorstep? > [@](#): > > How do we want to define “civil rights”? Are we happy with how we’re discussing it now? I am. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2006, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cheney-insane/355775/49 "2006-05-16T16:52:12Z")
[QUOTE=Age Quod Agis] Can you name one communist regime that actually has a human rights record? [/QUOTE] The Indian state of Kerala has been governed by the Communist Party for years, and has as good a human-rights record as any other Indian state, AFAIK. [Kerala - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kerala#Politics) Of course it’s debatable whether that counts as a Communist “regime,” since it’s under the Indian constitution. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2006, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cheney-insane/355775/50 "2006-05-16T16:55:00Z")
[QUOTE=Least Original User Name Ever] Cuba isn’t “Communist” anymore. They’re Socialist. You wanna lump those two terms together? [/QUOTE] Hmm? Cuba is officially a socialist republic, governed by the Communist Party – just like the old USSR. The terminology was based on the theory that “socialism” – state ownership and management of the economy – was what they actually had and “communism” was a utopian, stateless society to be achieved in the future. And I’ve never heard that the Cubans use the terms any differently. ---
**Author:** ![Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e480ec/32.png) [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Least_Original_User_Name_Ever)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2006, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cheney-insane/355775/51 "2006-05-16T17:04:42Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] Hmm? Cuba is officially a socialist republic, governed by the Communist Party – just like the old USSR. The terminology was based on the theory that “socialism” – state ownership and management of the economy – was what they actually had and “communism” was a utopian, stateless society to be achieved in the future. And I’ve never heard that the Cubans use the terms any differently. [/QUOTE] Castro has changed his definition of what Cuba is from “Marxist-Leninist” to “Socialist”. Feel free to point out whether or not you think it’s true, but there were some policy changes at that time that pushed Cuba to the right. ---
**Author:** ![Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e480ec/32.png) [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Least_Original_User_Name_Ever)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2006, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cheney-insane/355775/52 "2006-05-16T17:14:09Z")
[QUOTE=Ryan\_Liam] The Cuban government still imprisons innocents and represses political parties from opposing Castro, thus is anti democratic. Some socialist countries can be democratic, but there is no Communist country on Earth which hasn’t been anything but totalitarian. Dude, it was worse because it had to put up a concrete wall in the middle of Berlin to stop people from leaving, educated professionals couldn’t stand the place, let alone the actual working class. Capatalism isn’t a Western concept, it’s an idea of trading which incorporates Humans natural desire for wealth, security and betterment of self through the earning of money or barter, there’s my generalised view of it. Yet have no free press or political representation other than Castro approved Unions and workers parties. Give me the Western model any time of the day. Like Castro nearly bringing WWIII to the US doorstep? [/QUOTE] Castro is a Democratically elected official and somewhere from 97 to 99 percent of the population votes in elections. Having all your population voting is one of the hallmarks of a democracy. I’m not saying that Cuba is a democracy, I’m just pointing out that there are some things they do in the way of democracy that we do. Is the United States the only country that builds walls to keep people out? Seems that other countries build them to pack their people in. Capitalism is a view that’s been spoused by the Western countries. Whether or not Capitalism is purely a Western-created ideolgy isn’t the point. What, exactly, do you mean by “political representation” in Cuba? There is one party, but it could be argued that your average joe has a better chance of getting into government there than in America. Of course Castro wanted the nuclear missiles. He’s had the US hostile to him since he got into office. I don’t condone it, but I certainly can see why he’d want a great deterrent. We’re also veering way off the topic. We should make a new thread if we want to keep this up. ---
**Author:** ![Ryan\_Liam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ryan_liam/32/3965_2.png) [@Ryan\_Liam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ryan_Liam)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2006, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cheney-insane/355775/53 "2006-05-16T17:30:58Z")
> [@](#): > > Castro is a Democratically elected official and somewhere from 97 to 99 percent of the population votes in elections. Having all your population voting is one of the hallmarks of a democracy. I’m not saying that Cuba is a democracy, I’m just pointing out that there are some things they do in the way of democracy that we do. You’re joking right? No seriously, you are joking? No democratic election churns out 97-99 percent of the electorate for one particular party. And Castros elections have never been validated by the UN for authentication. > [@](#): > > Is the United States the only country that builds walls to keep people out? Seems that other countries build them to pack their people in. Yes like East Berliners had to enjoy for forty years. Keeping them in the workers paradise is difficult. Immigration isn’t political oppression, it’s just defending/regulating the border, that’s what states do. > [@](#): > > Capitalism is a view that’s been spoused by the Western countries. Whether or not Capitalism is purely a Western-created ideolgy isn’t the point. Capatalism has been around in various forms alot longer than Communism. Communism doesn’t work because Human nature is not to share, but to survive. > [@](#): > > What, exactly, do you mean by “political representation” in Cuba? There is one party, but it could be argued that your average joe has a better chance of getting into government there than in America. Who cares, if I couldn’t have a political party created to say that Communism is bad etc, there is no freedom of political thought. > [@](#): > > Of course Castro wanted the nuclear missiles. He’s had the US hostile to him since he got into office. I don’t condone it, but I certainly can see why he’d want a great deterrent. He could of had Soviet soldiers manning the Island to protect his ‘revolution’ however he went a step further and allowed Soviet nuclear ambitions to blind him to the peoples needs. Castro is interested in nothing but his maintaining of power. > [@](#): > > We’re also veering way off the topic. We should make a new thread if we want to keep this up. You do that. ---
**Author:** ![Age\_Quod\_Agis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d07c76/32.png) [@Age\_Quod\_Agis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Age_Quod_Agis)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2006, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cheney-insane/355775/54 "2006-05-17T02:25:35Z")
[QUOTE=Least Original User Name Ever] Castro is a Democratically elected official and somewhere from 97 to 99 percent of the population votes in elections. Having all your population voting is one of the hallmarks of a democracy. I’m not saying that Cuba is a democracy, I’m just pointing out that there are some things they do in the way of democracy that we do. [/quote] No. No, no, no, no. Castro is not a democratically elected official. There are “elections,” but they’re elections in name only. The ballot only includes one name, and if you don’t vote for it you’re locked in jail (see the Human Rights Watch article I linked earlier). That’s not democratically elected. (You seem to concede this when you say that “I’m not saying that Cuba is a democracy,” but if that’s not what you’re saying, then how can you say Castro is democratically elected?) And just because they claim to do some of the things we do doesn’t mean anything. Stalin claimed that he respected human rights, just like we Americans do. That doesn’t mean it was either true or that he should get credit for being a good guy regardless of his record. > [@](#): > > Capitalism is a view that’s been spoused by the Western countries. Whether or not Capitalism is purely a Western-created ideolgy isn’t the point. I think you’re confused. Capitalism isn’t a particularly Western viewpoint (or, I believe it would be more accurate to say “system,” but that’s kind of nitpicking). For example, most Eastern nations are capitalist, like Hong Kong, Singapore, Japan, South Korea, etc. Communist/Socialist nations are the exception, even outside of the West. > [@](#): > > What, exactly, do you mean by “political representation” in Cuba? There is one party, but it could be argued that your average joe has a better chance of getting into government there than in America. First of all, I don’t know who could make that argument. If you have some authority for that proposition, please provide it. Second, even if it was easier to get into government (which I can’t imagine it is), so what? The only opinion that matters is Castro’s. What good is your government position if you can’t influence policy? > [@](#): > > Of course Castro wanted the nuclear missiles. He’s had the US hostile to him since he got into office. I don’t condone it, but I certainly can see why he’d want a great deterrent. No, not “of course.” Just because someone is “hostile” to you doesn’t mean you need nukes, and just because nukes would make a great deterrent against invasion doesn’t mean it’s a good idea to have some shipped over. Castro has ruled Cuba for 30 years since then, so it seems like a pretty frivolous reason to have almost started a nuclear war. Moreover, the nukes weren’t just a deterrent against invading Cuba. They were a deterrent to opposing any Soviet actions throughout the world. ---
**Author:** ![Age\_Quod\_Agis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d07c76/32.png) [@Age\_Quod\_Agis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Age_Quod_Agis)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2006, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cheney-insane/355775/55 "2006-05-17T02:31:38Z")
Thanks for the link to the article about Kerlala, **BrainGlutton**. I don’t know enough about them to comment extensively, but I do think it’s relevant that the Communist party is currently the majority party of the _democratically elected_ government. Plus, under the Economy section of the Wikipedia article you linked, it says this: > [@](#): > > Since its incorporation as a state, Kerala’s economy largely operated under welfare-based democratic socialist principles; nevertheless, the state is increasingly — along with the rest of India — liberalising its economy, thus moving to a more mixed economy with a greater role played by the free market and foreign direct investment. So it appears that they’re Communist primarily in name. However, it’s still interesting, and I’ll have to read up some more on them. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2006, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cheney-insane/355775/56 "2006-05-17T18:47:08Z")
[QUOTE=Ryan\_Liam] Capatalism has been around in various forms alot longer than Communism. [/QUOTE] Not true. Communist ideology was formulated, in the early 19th Century, in response to the emergence of industrial capitalism, in the late 18th Century. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2006, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cheney-insane/355775/57 "2006-05-17T22:58:27Z")
[QUOTE=Least Original User Name Ever] Castro has changed his definition of what Cuba is from “Marxist-Leninist” to “Socialist”. Feel free to point out whether or not you think it’s true, but there were some policy changes at that time that pushed Cuba to the right. [/QUOTE] When did that happen? ---
**Author:** ![Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e480ec/32.png) [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Least_Original_User_Name_Ever)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2006, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cheney-insane/355775/58 "2006-05-18T00:10:35Z")
[QUOTE=Ryan\_Liam] You’re joking right? No seriously, you are joking? No democratic election churns out 97-99 percent of the electorate for one particular party. And Castros elections have never been validated by the UN for authentication. [/QUOTE] Cuba: A Revolution in Motion by Isaac Saney would be my source on this. I wouldn’t know about the validation from the UN, however. **Age Quod Agis** , that same book would be the same source that shows how people are into their government more. I won’t dispute that Castro was/has been trying to preserve his power. He pressed for the nukes after Russia tentatively offered them to him. I don’t say that it was the right call, and if I remember correctly, Khruschev regretted offering them to Castro (can’t remember if Castro regretted it, however). **BrainGlutton** , Castro noted the change as well in his speeches. In the beginning, he proclaimed that he was a Marxist-Leninist, eventually that extreme left policy waned into Socialism. I’d say that this change publically happened in the past 10 to 15 years off the top of my head. The national rallying cry is “Socialism or Death”. ---
**Author:** ![Age\_Quod\_Agis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d07c76/32.png) [@Age\_Quod\_Agis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Age_Quod_Agis)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2006, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cheney-insane/355775/59 "2006-05-18T00:18:42Z")
When you say people are “getting into” and “into” their government more, do you mean that they’re more interested, or more involved? Because I fail to see how they could be more involved in their government in Cuba, since even government members not named Fidel Castro really have no say in anything that goes on there. I have little doubt that Cuban citizens are very interested in their government, since the government has more effect on their daily lives (and deaths) than in most other countries. Care to explain? Feel free to summarize what you think is in the book you’ve cited. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2006, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cheney-insane/355775/60 "2006-05-18T00:30:05Z")
[QUOTE=Age Quod Agis] When you say people are “getting into” and “into” their government more, do you mean that they’re more interested, or more involved? Because I fail to see how they could be more involved in their government in Cuba, since even government members not named Fidel Castro really have no say in anything that goes on there. [/QUOTE] Well, at least a lot of them have a chance to get involved – [http://encarta.msn.com/encyclopedia\_761569844\_8/Cuba.html:](http://encarta.msn.com/encyclopedia_761569844_8/Cuba.html:) > [@](#): > > The 1976 constitution instituted a concept known as the People’s Power construct, a structure designed to allow Cuban citizens greater participation in government policy-making decisions. The People’s Power consists of assemblies that administer government and pass laws. These assemblies exist at municipal, provincial, and national levels. Delegates are nominated and elected first at the municipal level. They need not be members of the PCC. However, the party must approve all candidates, and individuals may not run on a political platform. Instead, voters select their delegate from brief biographies and from personal acquaintance with the person. The 169 municipal assemblies allocate funds for maintenance of municipal facilities and hear cases involving household disputes and petty crime. Smaller communities with populations of 30,000 or more elect delegates to people’s councils. Members of the municipal assemblies and the people’s councils elect representatives to their provincial assemblies from their membership. > > Each of Cuba’s 14 provinces has its own assembly. Provincial assemblies oversee transportation and communication systems throughout the island and recommend legislation regarding interstate crime and allocations of resources for development. From their own membership, provincial delegates nominate and elect representatives to the 601-member National Assembly of People’s Power. In 1992 the public approved a referendum calling for assembly members to be elected directly by the people. Only candidates belonging to the PCC are allowed to run. It would actually be a more democratic and broadly participatory system than anything we’ve got outside New England, **if** the Communist Party were not controlling every step of the process. Provided you’re acceptable to the PCC, it is probably easier to get a seat on a Cuban municipal assembly than an American county commission or town council. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cheney-insane/355775.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cheney-insane/355775.md?page=4)