# Is church tax status in any danger? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Tags:** trump\ **Created:** [January 27, 2025, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-church-tax-status-in-any-danger/1013481 "2025-01-27T17:12:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2025, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-church-tax-status-in-any-danger/1013481/61 "2025-01-30T14:57:43Z")
> [@dolphinboy](#): > > I guess you could say they are selling you eternal life and salvation. Or you could say they’re selling community involvement and fellowship, like many other non-profits. I don’t want the IRS or Congress deciding which churches are “good” and which are “bad”. If you don’t like a particular church, don’t donate to them. > [@dolphinboy](#): > > facility maintenance and people’s salaries Even a for-profit business doesn’t pay taxes on overhead. > [@dolphinboy](#): > > Some churches sell education. Paying for tuition isn’t a tax deductible donation. You do understand that the vast majority of a non-profit’s tax exemption benefit is for the donor, not the organization itself, right? ---
**Author:** ![fedman1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e495f1/32.png) [@fedman1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fedman1)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2025, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-church-tax-status-in-any-danger/1013481/62 "2025-01-30T15:01:37Z")
tithes are asked, not required, and fund-raises are ubiquitous across non-profits. And it’s churches–not the gov’t–that feeds and houses the poor from their pocket ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2025, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-church-tax-status-in-any-danger/1013481/63 "2025-01-30T15:07:15Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > The basic rationale is that churches should have a tax-exempt status on the basis that they are charitable organizations that uniquely promote the public welfare and upstanding social values. I believe that is incorrect. It is due to the 1st Amendment Establishment Clause. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2025, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-church-tax-status-in-any-danger/1013481/64 "2025-01-30T15:19:23Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > I believe that is incorrect. No, it’s correct. If it was based on the First Amendment, they would have been excluded from the beginning. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2025, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-church-tax-status-in-any-danger/1013481/65 "2025-01-30T15:25:16Z")
> [@Munch](#): > > No, it’s correct. If it was based on the First Amendment, they would have been excluded from the beginning. I’d have to check that. In the beginning states had official state religions but the interpretation of the Establishment Clause has evolved over time. It can’t just be charity to justify it. What if a church doesn’t believe in charity? Are charity organizations also exempt from property taxes? ETA: Yep, I was wrong and y’all were right but I do have a cite _Walz v. Tax Commission of the City of New York_ ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2025, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-church-tax-status-in-any-danger/1013481/66 "2025-01-30T15:32:35Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > What if a church doesn’t believe in charity? As I’ve learned on the Dope, people have extremely different views of what they consider “charity”. I’d be curious what sort of church doesn’t engage is charitable purposes, but regardless, the IRS classifies all religious organizations under section 501c3, as long as they adhere to policy restrictions outlined under such (essentially not outright and explicitly endorsing political candidates). > [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > Are charity organizations also exempt from property taxes? Yes. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2025, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-church-tax-status-in-any-danger/1013481/67 "2025-01-30T22:40:30Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > I don’t see this as a fight Trump has any interest in picking. Not because of any principled stance on his part, but because it might open up a can of worms regarding his own followers. I doubt we’ll see attempts at going after non-Christian religions either. I don’t mean to imply he’s incapable of such wickedness, only that I don’t think he’ll go this particular route. I agree. **Overall** He’s not going shut down the tax status overall because his base has a lot of religious evangelicals who would be very angry if he did so. So the only question is the exceptions. **Non-Christian Sects** I think that he will ignore these as well. They are relatively small potatoes and making exceptions for them in the tax code is a blatant violation of church and state separation. You might argue that with his new dictatorial powers he doesn’t have to worry about that. But if he’s got dictatorial powers then why is he bothering piddling around with the tax code. He can just declare them to be terrorists and go after them criminally. **Polituically Liberal Sects** Again the question is, is it worth it to make an exception to go after them. For the most part probably not. Figuring out which churches are “good” and which are “bad” will take a fair amount of effort, and if you start going after the bad ones wholesale, then other Christians even “good” ones who are known for their persecution complex might start getting upset. So as long as they keep their head down you might as well leave them alone. But if for some reason some individual church starts making headlines with its liberal stance or starts harboring ~~refugees~~ terrorists, then you come down on them hard. ---
**Author:** ![OldGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/3bc359/32.png) [@OldGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldGuy)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2025, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-church-tax-status-in-any-danger/1013481/68 "2025-01-31T02:18:37Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > Are charity organizations also exempt from property taxes? In part. Property that’s used in their charitable purpose is not taxed. So Harvard, Yale, etc. pay property tax on non-school use property they own. I think some larger universities do make voluntary (I think). In some cases fire district taxes must be paid. I don’t know if churches must pay to a fire district. The state government also sometimes makes payments in lieu of taxes to local governments to make up for property taxes not collected. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2025, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-church-tax-status-in-any-danger/1013481/69 "2025-02-03T17:01:13Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > I’m not @Thing.Fish but I bet they don’t greatly attack non-Xians and non-fundamentalist Xians until after the racial attacks become ineffective crowd pleasers. > > So it’ll start in about 2 years. Your timing is off. And FTR, the organizations being attacked by Flynn and Musk are also sponsored by the conservative Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod, which comes pretty close if not completely fundamentalizst. > **[Lutherans Hammer Against Misinformation by Michael Flynn and Elon Musk -...](https://wordandway.org/2025/02/03/lutherans-hammer-against-misinformation-by-michael-flynn-and-elon-musk/)** > > The first week of the new Trump administration was filled with attacks on the religious liberty rights of Episcopalians and Catholics. Over the weekend, another Christian group found itself in crosshairs: the ELCA. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2025, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-church-tax-status-in-any-danger/1013481/70 "2025-02-05T00:58:03Z")
They also have to be the right KIND of Christian on top of it. One wonders how they would handle Judaism. ---
**Author:** ![UDS1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/e47774/32.png) [@UDS1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS1)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2025, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-church-tax-status-in-any-danger/1013481/71 "2025-02-05T03:43:06Z")
> [@nearwildheaven](#): > > One wonders how they would handle Judaism. Same as every other religion. As long as Jewish bodies and institutions display proper devotion to the Orange One,ostentatiously express enthusiastic support for the MAGA line and deny or at least refrain from noticing, e.g., Elon Musk’s obvious Nazi-adjacency, they’ll be fine. ---
**Author:** ![fedman1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e495f1/32.png) [@fedman1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fedman1)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2025, 6:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-church-tax-status-in-any-danger/1013481/72 "2025-02-06T06:40:19Z")
can you give cite for LSMS “sponsoring” these organizations? AS ex-member of LCMS, they wouldn’t even allow ELCA to take communion ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2025, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-church-tax-status-in-any-danger/1013481/73 "2025-02-06T22:40:40Z")
Here’s a whole raft of references direct from the LCMS website. [https://www.lcms.org/search?q=lutheran+family+service#gsc.tab=0&gsc.q=lutheran%20family%20service&gsc.page=1](https://www.lcms.org/search?q=lutheran+family+service#gsc.tab=0&gsc.q=lutheran%20family%20service&gsc.page=1) ---
**Author:** ![DtypeJag](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e480ec/32.png) [@DtypeJag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DtypeJag)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2025, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-church-tax-status-in-any-danger/1013481/74 "2025-04-25T04:20:07Z")
Texas just passed a bill to provide vouchers for private schools paid for by guess who. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2025, 6:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-church-tax-status-in-any-danger/1013481/75 "2025-04-25T06:24:25Z")
> [@DtypeJag](#): > > paid for by guess who Mexico? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-church-tax-status-in-any-danger/1013481.md?page=3)