# Is church worth going to just to socialize? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 26, 2008, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-church-worth-going-to-just-to-socialize/478746 "2008-12-26T17:25:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![DMC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dmc/32/18049_2.png) [@DMC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMC)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2008, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-church-worth-going-to-just-to-socialize/478746/41 "2008-12-28T05:41:55Z")
> [@dangermom](#): > > Well, the same thing would apply to any family where the parents said one thing and did another–it’s just that church attendance would make it pretty obvious. _shrug_ But that’s the case whether the person is the spokesperson for the faith, or an atheist who goes there because he likes the pretty girl in the third row. > [@](#): > > All I’m saying is that IMO active membership in a church you don’t actually believe in at all is dishonest, IMO. I can almost get on board with this one, but I think it can be handled in most situations. If they go to Sunday School and start praising Jesus this, hallelujah that, sure, that’s dishonest. If they quietly sit during a sermon (or skip the sermon altogether) and attend the occasional ice cream social, I think they can maintain their personal integrity in many churches. How easy that is to pull off will greatly depend on both the branch of the church in question, as well as the practices of that particular church and congregation. ---
**Author:** ![Kevbo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e47774/32.png) [@Kevbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kevbo)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2008, 7:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-church-worth-going-to-just-to-socialize/478746/42 "2008-12-28T07:43:06Z")
> [@Deereman](#): > > This is an extremely tough issue for me… > > I respect their beliefs, and I seriously considered joining the LDS (Mormon church) because of them. (and admittedly the whole not drinking/smoking thing) Attended a service once. Hmmm, how to say this as inoffensivly as I can… LDS is not just a religion, it is a lifestyle. I suppose that there must be some who just go to church on Sunday and that is the end of it. That doesn’t discribe andy of the Mormans I’ve known though. You might want to do some online research before you choose that church. I admit that I grew up with a bias. My parents lived in a small town in Utah (Helper) for a few years in the late 1940s (long before I was born). They were 2 of the 5 non-Mormans. It was not fun for them. Times certainly have changed, but don’t be suprised if attenting an LDS church as a non-believer is even more isolating than your current situation. ---
**Author:** ![Poor\_College\_Student](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d78d45/32.png) [@Poor\_College\_Student](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Poor_College_Student)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2008, 9:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-church-worth-going-to-just-to-socialize/478746/43 "2008-12-28T09:21:36Z")
> [@Deereman](#): > > This is an extremely tough issue for me… > > I guess I should explain… > > I’m agnostic. I honestly don’t know if there is a God, I’ve seen no proof for myself either way…but I don’t think that all religious people are idiots. My tag line is: “I don’t know” > > … > > It confuses me, everytime I think about it. And it hurts too. I feel like I’m caught between two worlds (normal=drinking, etc, OR religious) and fit in neither Every. single. word. DITTO. I feel I could have written this myself, even the LDS part. ---
**Author:** ![Deereman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Deereman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deereman)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2008, 10:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-church-worth-going-to-just-to-socialize/478746/44 "2008-12-28T10:51:43Z")
> [@Kevbo](#): > > Hmmm, how to say this as inoffensively as I can… > > LDS is not just a religion, it is a lifestyle. [snip] Which pretty much is the reason I have not joined. I KNOW it is not a “Go on Sunday, forget on Monday” religion. I have the utmost respect BECAUSE of that, and it’s actually a reason I considered the LDS so strongly, BECAUSE it’s not lipservice. In the course of my research, and talking to my friends (a couple of whom I knew for YEARS before investigating things) I found parts of the Mormon lifestyle/belief system that I do not entirely agree with…things that bothered me. Because I know I couldn’t make myself “fake” it, ESPECIALLY since it’s an all encompassing thing, I have chosen not to join, but of course, they are still my friends, even when I’ve been honest and said I can’t do it. Oh, and **Poor College Student** , it’s good to see we’re both confused then! ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2008, 11:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-church-worth-going-to-just-to-socialize/478746/45 "2008-12-28T11:30:43Z")
I like churches as buildings- I admire the architecture, the design, the work put into them, and their aesthetic and artistic qualities- but I’m not a religious person otherwise. My wife’s family are Ultra Catholic- there are one or two of her slightly distant relatives who are still annoyed about Vatican II- and when we announced our engagement I had to do the whole “Meeting the family” thing, which led to a few awkward questions regarding my Faith, or lack thereof. I found the easiest and most effective way to parry them was this: “I’m unaffiliated.” That kept everyone happy, and meant that my wife’s elderly relatives weren’t fretting that she was marrying an Unbeliever, but it also meant I wasn’t expected to go to Mass or any other “Churchy” things with them. However, my wife says that in the US Church is indeed 80% socialising and that if we ever moved to small-town Texas (where she grew up) it was pretty much _de rigeur_ if you wanted to get anywhere professionally or community-wise. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2008, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-church-worth-going-to-just-to-socialize/478746/46 "2008-12-28T15:08:57Z")
> [@Kalhoun](#): > > Amongst my friends and family, church is probably 70% social, 20% ritual, and 10% goddy. I know a few atheists and agnostics that go for the fun. > > You might want to join a unitarian church. They don’t have to believe in god. My atheist uncle attended for years. Not likely to find an active one in a small town though - we are a rare breed. ETA: - If there is a UUA congregation about, its a great answer for someone who wants “church” but doesn’t want a lot of “God.” Most small towns will have a number of Christian denominations - one is likely to be a semi-liberal social club with Jesus in the mix, one is likely to be a fire and brimstone social club. Although it isn’t good manners to go to church and announce how you don’t believe in the dogma, it is certainly the case in the average small town that any number of church goers are there for the social and “its expected” reasons - and not to save their souls. My sister lives in such a town - when they moved in her neighbors introduced themselves by name and church affiliation “Hi, I’m Mary Kate, we go to St. Agnes.” “Hi, I’m Susan, we are Methodists.” ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2008, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-church-worth-going-to-just-to-socialize/478746/47 "2008-12-29T04:22:15Z")
> [@dangermom](#): > > Yes, they are going to know. Kids aren’t stupid. And many of them will lose respect for their parents. “Do as I say, not as I do” isn’t all that great a teaching philosophy. Not if the parents go when the kids are young (like elementary school). Kids that age will just swallow the BS whole. ---
**Author:** ![Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heffalump_and_roo/32/7691_2.png) [@Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heffalump_and_Roo)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2008, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-church-worth-going-to-just-to-socialize/478746/48 "2008-12-29T04:30:00Z")
> [@Spin\_Master](#): > > I guess this is what I’m trying to get at: Is it better to be a lonely atheist or a fake-Christian with many friends? False dichotomy. I go to church because of the social aspects (and because I like it), but I’m very clear to the pastor and everyone that I come into contact with that I’m a non-believer and that I’m not Christian. The pastor is fine with it. And if someone that I tell is not OK, I just consider that their problem and move on. But most people are nice about it. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2008, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-church-worth-going-to-just-to-socialize/478746/49 "2008-12-29T04:40:02Z")
> [@Heffalump\_and\_Roo](#): > > False dichotomy. I go to church because of the social aspects (and because I like it), but I’m very clear to the pastor and everyone that I come into contact with that I’m a non-believer and that I’m not Christian. The pastor is fine with it. And if someone that I tell is not OK, I just consider that their problem and move on. But most people are nice about it. What type of church is it? If you have kids, do you take them? ---
**Author:** ![Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heffalump_and_roo/32/7691_2.png) [@Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heffalump_and_Roo)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2008, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-church-worth-going-to-just-to-socialize/478746/50 "2008-12-29T04:56:32Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > What type of church is it? If you have kids, do you take them? It’s a conservative Christian church. . . about as conservative as they come. I don’t take kids with me. ---
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2008, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-church-worth-going-to-just-to-socialize/478746/51 "2008-12-29T13:10:08Z")
> [@dangermom](#): > > Maybe it’s just that I go to a church that expects a commitment that goes beyond Sundays. But say, for example, you go every week to a church that has regular sermons about the importance of honesty and helping people who are less fortunate. Perhaps you echo those sentiments yourself at church. **At home, however, you routinely make comments disparaging poor people, never act generously and sneer at those who do, and cheerfully engage in shady business practices which cheat others.** Do you think perhaps your child will notice a disparity between what you say on Sundays and what you do in real life? I’m sorry, I don’t quite understand the steps you took to get here. I thought the OP was talking about a lack of faith in the core _religious_ tenets of the church, not in morality in general. I’ve read enough of your posts to know (think) you’re not taking the extreme if-your-an-atheist-then-you-are-automatically-immoral stance, so maybe you see where my confusion is coming from. ---
**Author:** ![dangermom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e274bd/32.png) [@dangermom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dangermom)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2008, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-church-worth-going-to-just-to-socialize/478746/52 "2008-12-29T14:57:22Z")
It was just a simplified example. Replace it with any religious tenet you please. Look, I’m not against anyone at all going to church, regardless of beliefs, as long as there’s honesty. It’s the pretending I’m against. ---
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2008, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-church-worth-going-to-just-to-socialize/478746/53 "2008-12-29T15:11:54Z")
> [@dangermom](#): > > It was just a simplified example. Replace it with any religious tenet you please. > > Look, I’m not against anyone at all going to church, regardless of beliefs, as long as there’s honesty. It’s the pretending I’m against. Ah, I think that’s the difference. I thought the OP split strictly _religious_ tenets from moral tenets. As in, “don’t steal,” v. “have no God before me” (or some such paradigm). ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2008, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-church-worth-going-to-just-to-socialize/478746/54 "2008-12-29T15:29:23Z")
> [@Heffalump\_and\_Roo](#): > > I don’t take kids with me. Well thank god for that (wait, I mean …). Also, I’m surprised there are any beneficial social aspects of your experience given your outspokenness about your lack of belief. Seems like most people there would hold you at a distance once they realice you aren’t converting. One could draw certain inferences about your motivations for surrounding yourself with people that have views with which you disagree, but I won’t be so indelicate as to address this directly. I also don’t understand how you avoid groaning or rolling your eyes during the sermons. ---
**Author:** ![Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heffalump_and_roo/32/7691_2.png) [@Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heffalump_and_Roo)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2008, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-church-worth-going-to-just-to-socialize/478746/55 "2008-12-29T19:27:41Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Well thank god for that (wait, I mean …). Hmm. Yeah, what did you mean? That question is one of the reasons I go to church. And yes, it really is part of our vernacular, isn’t it? > [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Also, I’m surprised there are any beneficial social aspects of your experience given your outspokenness about your lack of belief. Perhaps that’s because you’re reading some of the atheists here who say, ‘if I did x, then Christians would do y’ without really having tried it. > [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Seems like most people there would hold you at a distance once they realice you aren’t converting. If that happens, I’d walk away. But it’s the same for people who require I join their groupthink about anything. . . atheism, political party, message board pet ideas, some other viewpoint. > [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > One could draw certain inferences about your motivations for surrounding yourself with people that have views with which you disagree, but I won’t be so indelicate as to address this directly. So you imply it instead without enumerating what you’re discussing? And that’s better because. . . ? What inferences do you draw about your motivations in participating in debates where your opponent disagrees with you? ETA: What inferences do you draw about people who surround themselves with only people who agree with them? And I don’t _only_ surround myself with Christians. I socialize with them\* also\*. > [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > I also don’t understand how you avoid groaning or rolling your eyes during the sermons. Of course I do, but not any more than I do while reading some of the posts on this message board (and sometimes significantly less than while reading posts on this message board) A well-reasoned argument is a well-reasoned argument wherever you find it. The pastor at the church I attend has a doctorate degree and was a professor of philosophy (and logic). His sermons are thoughtful, well-reasoned and quite a bit more sophisticated than many of the posts I see here. We don’t agree because I start from different presumptions and assumptions, but I’m often interested to see how he reasoned his way to the conclusion. In addition, to me, religion is about asking questions. . . the core questions everyone asks of life. The answers to those questions are markedly similar reqardless of the religion or non-religion for the simple reason that we all exist in the same culture and society. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2008, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-church-worth-going-to-just-to-socialize/478746/56 "2008-12-30T02:49:57Z")
I think religion is about metaphor. We have so many things in this world (like love and death) that are almost impossible to discuss directly because they are just too weird and big and complicated. So instead we use metaphors as a way of expressing and organizing our thoughts. When we get a bunch of these metaphors together, it’s called a religion. Belief is really secondary. The biggest question is- does this metaphor help you make sense of the world? If so, go for it. ---
**Author:** ![devilsknew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4da419/32.png) [@devilsknew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/devilsknew)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2008, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-church-worth-going-to-just-to-socialize/478746/57 "2008-12-30T05:36:22Z")
Personally, I find the idea offensive to myself and the church. A girl was pushing me and suggesting that I go to her megachurch to “try it”. I find the idea of these cafeteria megachurches offensive in principal, from a spiritual standpoint, even though I’m not a Christian. I had this Baptist Group trying to witness and recruit me into the fold at a bar/restaurant. Mysteriously, he kept showing up when I was there :.) . He asked me if I wanted to come to their Church Superbowl Party. I explained that I was going to the old-folks Superbowl party in the trailerpark (It’s a senior community). I asked him if they were going to have beer. He said no, no alcohol. I said well, at the old-folks party they have beer. I asked him if they were going to have a Superbowl Pool. He said no, gambling is not allowed. I said well they have a pretty big Superbowl Pool at the old-folks party. I declined and said that it sounded like I’d have more fun with the old-folks. Never saw them after that. I’ve been to plenty of churches and I didn’t find any of them particularly welcoming or social. Offensive in many ways, yes… definitely not a social club. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-church-worth-going-to-just-to-socialize/478746.md?page=2)