# Is civil war in Egypt averted? 90% yes for new Constitution. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 17, 2014, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-civil-war-in-egypt-averted-90-yes-for-new-constitution/679071 "2014-01-17T16:30:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 16
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2014, 12:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-civil-war-in-egypt-averted-90-yes-for-new-constitution/679071/301 "2014-01-30T12:05:12Z")
> [@Marmite\_Lover](#): > > It took 5 months to finally say what we have been saying a very long time. BUT does Kerry agree the MB are terrorist org? That is what Egyptians want to know. > > We’d also like to know why Obama keeps sending Mc Cain to Cairo to secure release of the MB in jail. > > Here he is with his jihadist terrorist friends who wear AQ headbands. What piece of US supplied equipment is he adjusting on the terrorists shoulder? > > You see these days we don’t believe a word that comes out of the USA. All trust went a long time ago. They are only words. Words are nothing unless backed up by actions. Declaring MB a terrorist org would be a first step. Second would be to declare Qatar a terrorist state since it is the main funder and safe haven of MB terrorists. Third would be to declare Qatari TV news channel a mouthpiece for the MB terrorist organisation which deliberately distorts the truth for the Western audiences. There are hundreds more things they could do instead of talk. > > Below John McCain send by Obama to make sure that the US supported jihadists are not running low on supplies and moral support and funding. Captured with Jihadist AQ on camera. > > [https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BfNtu56IIAA2nD9.jpg:large](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BfNtu56IIAA2nD9.jpg:large) Could you provide a link that has words Attached. Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2014, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-civil-war-in-egypt-averted-90-yes-for-new-constitution/679071/302 "2014-01-30T12:52:01Z")
> [@Marmite\_Lover](#): > > you said > > quote > > “Right, he was arrested for organizing a political protest, which is now illegal.” > > that is a lie > political protests are not illegal And yet people are in jail in your country for organizing political protests. Requiring government approval of gatherings of more than 10 people is a de facto ban on political protests, because the government can simply decline to give approval to groups it doesn’t like. Unless there are pro-Al Sisi demonstrators in jail too…but I suspect there aren’t. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2014, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-civil-war-in-egypt-averted-90-yes-for-new-constitution/679071/303 "2014-01-30T13:09:10Z")
Look, nobody here is supporting the MB. We’re just wondering what the difference is between Sissi and Mubarak, other than the fact that Sissi is \*currently \*more popular. ---
**Author:** ![Dissonance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/85f322/32.png) [@Dissonance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dissonance)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2014, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-civil-war-in-egypt-averted-90-yes-for-new-constitution/679071/304 "2014-01-30T15:46:48Z")
> [@Marmite\_Lover](#): > > I don’t think anyone can seriously hope to get votes over Sisi. Oh, I’m quite sure you’re right about this. > [@](#): > > His posters now going up over New Cairo area > > [https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/t1/1551753\_652314834825038\_1548354255\_n.jpg](https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/t1/1551753_652314834825038_1548354255_n.jpg) You really are clueless as to what this looks like, aren’t you? A picture of our beloved generalissimo hanging from every single lamppost on the highway? Here’s a hint: it sure isn’t democracy. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2014, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-civil-war-in-egypt-averted-90-yes-for-new-constitution/679071/305 "2014-01-30T15:49:09Z")
> [@Dissonance](#): > > Oh, I’m quite sure you’re right about this. > > You really are clueless as to what this looks like, aren’t you? A picture of our beloved generalissimo hanging from every single lamppost on the highway? Here’s a hint: it sure isn’t democracy. And we have people on this board arguing that the _US_ is becoming a Banana Republic… ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2014, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-civil-war-in-egypt-averted-90-yes-for-new-constitution/679071/306 "2014-01-30T17:21:59Z")
More an Apple Republic, really. Too cold to grow bananas over a lot of the US. Hipster republic? I’m flexible. ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2014, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-civil-war-in-egypt-averted-90-yes-for-new-constitution/679071/307 "2014-01-30T17:32:16Z")
> [@Marmite\_Lover](#): > > We’d also like to know why Obama keeps sending Mc Cain to Cairo to secure release of the MB in jail. > > Below John McCain send by Obama to make sure that the US supported jihadists are not running low on supplies and moral support and funding. Captured with Jihadist AQ on camera > > [https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BfNtu56IIAA2nD9.jpg:large](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BfNtu56IIAA2nD9.jpg:large) > [@](#): > > The administration appears to want to keep sending aid. > > “It would not be in the best interests of the United States to immediately change our assistance programs to Egypt,” White House Press Secretary Jay Carney told ABC’s Jonathan Karl at Monday’s daily press briefing. Read more: [http://abcnews.go.com/m/blogEntry?id=19613444&ref=http%3A%2F%2Fsearch.yahoo.com%2Fmobile%2Fs%3Frewrite%3D72%26.tsrc%3Dapple%26first%3D1%26p%3Dobama%2Bfavors%2Bcontinued%2Baid%2Bto%2BEgypt%2Bafter%2Bmilitary%2Bcoup%26pintl%3Den%26pcarrier%3DAT%2526T%26pmcc%3D310%26pmnc%3D410%26fr%3Donesearch](http://abcnews.go.com/m/blogEntry?id=19613444&ref=http%3A%2F%2Fsearch.yahoo.com%2Fmobile%2Fs%3Frewrite%3D72%26.tsrc%3Dapple%26first%3D1%26p%3Dobama%2Bfavors%2Bcontinued%2Baid%2Bto%2BEgypt%2Bafter%2Bmilitary%2Bcoup%26pintl%3Den%26pcarrier%3DAT%2526T%26pmcc%3D310%26pmnc%3D410%26fr%3Donesearch) McCain and Obama are mostly at odds in every foreign policy matter: > [@](#): > > Why are Sens. John McCain & Rand Paul supporting the Muslim Brotherhood? > Following the removal of president Morsi, Senators John McCain and Rand Paul urged the government to end foreign aid to Egypt. The reason? Because the Egyptian army deposed a democratically elected president, and they don’t want the US to be seen as opposing Democracy by continuing aid. > > Sounds reasonable, right? > > Here’s the catch - that Democratically elected president was a member of the Muslim Brotherhood. So in effect, McCain and Paul are stopping US aid to Egypt because the Muslim Brotherhood was overthrown. Read more: [Yahoo Search - Web Search](http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index;_ylt=AwrBTzncQepSz3MAm45x.9w4;_ylu=X3oDMTEzbWszc3VmBHNlYwNzcgRwb3MDMgRjb2xvA2JmMQR2dGlkA01PVVM5Ml8x?qid=20130708123341AAd97VA) The Republicans have been having trouble deciding on a consistent policy dealing with the historic events in Egypt. That is because they are driven by a blame-Obama-first philosophy and it is not easy figuring out what blame helps them the most. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2014, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-civil-war-in-egypt-averted-90-yes-for-new-constitution/679071/308 "2014-01-30T17:55:46Z")
Yahoo answers? Excuse me while I roll on the floor laughing… ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2014, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-civil-war-in-egypt-averted-90-yes-for-new-constitution/679071/309 "2014-01-30T18:08:32Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Yahoo answers? Excuse me while I roll on the floor laughing… Can you stop laughing long enough to explain what is wrong with the answer? And is it impossible that information cannot be correct or pertinent to the discussion because of the site where the information is posted. Do you declare that McCain and Obama where on the same page on whether to cut off all aid to Egypt after the military tossed the Islamist first president in the slammer? What is your point? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2014, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-civil-war-in-egypt-averted-90-yes-for-new-constitution/679071/310 "2014-01-30T18:21:42Z")
> [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > Can you stop laughing long enough to explain what is wrong with the answer? Yahoo answers cannot be used a cite. It’s just some anonymous person posting on the internet. > [@](#): > > And is it impossible that information cannot be correct or pertinent to the discussion because of the site where the information is posted. McCain wanted to suspend, not “end”, aid to Egypt not because he doesn’t “want the US to be seen as opposing Democracy by continuing aid”, but because he thinks that is the law, as do I. He’s on record as saying he doesn’t want to suspend aid, but feels we must in order to be compliant with the law. And supporting Morsi isn’t blanket support of “the Muslim Brotherhood”. It’s support of the democratically elected president of Egypt. ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2014, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-civil-war-in-egypt-averted-90-yes-for-new-constitution/679071/311 "2014-01-30T18:25:33Z")
I am trying to provide some background information for Marmite Lover on US domestic politics and how that relates to events in Egypt. John Mace can only laugh and scoff because of a link, This is about what Obama has to deal with from the opposition here at home. Perhaps the link to this report are up to Mace’s elevated standards: > [@](#): > > Paul’s plan to cut off aid, introduced as an amendment to a Senate transportation appropriations measure, appears dependent on the Obama administration formally labeling Morsi’s ouster a coup. > > “Eliminates military foreign assistance to Egypt based upon current law, which the United States is legally prohibited from providing foreign assistance to nations that experience a military coups d’état,” states a summary of the amendment provided by Paul’s office. “Funding directed to Egypt would be redirected” to another portion of the transportation bill that addresses bridge projects inside the United States, according to Paul’s office. Read more: [http://www.defensenews.com/article/20130730/DEFREG02/307300013/Obama-Asks-McCain-Graham-Go-Egypt-Amid-Questions-Over-US-Military-Aid](http://www.defensenews.com/article/20130730/DEFREG02/307300013/Obama-Asks-McCain-Graham-Go-Egypt-Amid-Questions-Over-US-Military-Aid) ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2014, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-civil-war-in-egypt-averted-90-yes-for-new-constitution/679071/312 "2014-01-30T18:39:30Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Yahoo answers cannot be used a cite. It’s just some anonymous person posting on the internet. > McCain wanted to suspend, not “end”, aid to Egypt not because he doesn’t “want the US to be seen as opposing Democracy by continuing aid”, but because he thinks that is the law, as do I. He’s on record as saying he doesn’t want to suspend aid, but feels we must in order to be compliant with the law. > > And supporting Morsi isn’t blanket support of “the Muslim Brotherhood”. It’s support of the democratically elected president of Egypt. See my previous post. McCain was on the same page with Rand Paul not Obama. Obama avoided calling the take-over as a coup. As long as elections were coming and they are coming. Just trying to give an Egyptian living thorough it some background on why some actions are taken and that all that is seen from Egypt looking at us may not always be the truest perspective. That’s all. I posted that yahoo answer as a ‘quote’ for an example. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2014, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-civil-war-in-egypt-averted-90-yes-for-new-constitution/679071/313 "2014-01-30T18:44:40Z")
> [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > I am trying to provide some background information for Marmite Lover on US domestic politics and how that relates to events in Egypt. This will not be accomplished by posting nonsense. Your cite is stupid and wrong. Obama is not a member of the Muslim Brotherhood. The person who wrote your cite is lying. If you want to provide background information, it would be better to provide true information, not this garbage. > [@](#): > > This is about what Obama has to deal with from the opposition here at home. What Obama has to deal with is the fact that he is breaking the law by continuing to provide aid to Egypt. > [@](#): > > the United States is legally prohibited from providing foreign assistance to nations that experience a military coups d’état [Egypt had a military _coup d’état_.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_Egyptian_coup_d%27%C3%A9tat) Ergo, the US is legally prohibited from providing foreign assistance to her. > [@](#): > > Obama avoided calling the take-over as a coup. As long as elections were coming and they are coming. Let’s see a cite that a coup is not a coup if the military promises some rigged elections later. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2014, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-civil-war-in-egypt-averted-90-yes-for-new-constitution/679071/314 "2014-01-30T22:24:08Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > This will not be accomplished by posting nonsense. > > Your cite is stupid and wrong. Obama is not a member of the Muslim Brotherhood. The person who wrote your cite is lying. You best learn how to read before calling something nonsense. Here’s the ‘cite’ you have called nonsense by erroneously thinking they were talking about Obama: !!“Here’s the catch - that Democratically elected president was a member of the Muslim Brotherhood. So in effect, McCain and Paul are stopping US aid to Egypt because the Muslim Brotherhood was overthrown.”!! They were talking about Morsi not Obama. Will you admit your error? ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2014, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-civil-war-in-egypt-averted-90-yes-for-new-constitution/679071/315 "2014-01-30T22:33:40Z")
> [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > They were talking about Morsi not Obama. Will you admit your error? OK - my apologies for misunderstanding you. You claimed your post was about “what Obama has to deal with from the opposition here at home”. What Obama has to deal with is that he is trying to pretend that there wasn’t a military coup in Egypt. Which there was. So he should not be continuing to send them aid, because US law says that the US should not send aid to a country which has had a military coup. Which Egypt has had. You apparently think the coup doesn’t count as a coup (which is what happened in Egypt) if they claim they will have elections later. Nothing in US law says that a coup isn’t a coup if the military claims they will have elections later, especially not if they are going to rig elections the way they rigged the referendum. So, again, my apologies for calling your cite wrong and stupid. I should have referred to the rest of your post as wrong and stupid. I regret the error. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2014, 12:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-civil-war-in-egypt-averted-90-yes-for-new-constitution/679071/316 "2014-01-31T12:14:55Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > OK - my apologies for misunderstanding you. > > You claimed your post was about “what Obama has to deal with from the opposition here at home”. What Obama has to deal with is that he is trying to pretend that there wasn’t a military coup in Egypt. Which there was. So he should not be continuing to send them aid, because US law says that the US should not send aid to a country which has had a military coup. Which Egypt has had. > > You apparently think the coup doesn’t count as a coup (which is what happened in Egypt) if they claim they will have elections later. Nothing in US law says that a coup isn’t a coup if the military claims they will have elections later, especially not if they are going to rig elections the way they rigged the referendum. > > So, again, my apologies for calling your cite wrong and stupid. I should have referred to the rest of your post as wrong and stupid. > > I regret the error. > > Regards, > Shodan Apology accepted. I have not viewed the coup As a coup for two main reasons. The first was that Mubarak was overthrown and there was no coup talk when the military had a strong role in that. Secondly the fact that Morsi won in an election it was perhaps way to early to call his government an established democracy. Morsi did not really ever gain control of the power of governing which of course is law enforcement and the military. Morsi was still in the process of trying to consolidate power by installing Islamists into institutions where they were not welcomed. While technicslly a coup the fair and wise use of that concept in revolutionary Egypt should not and need not apply because of extraordinary circumstances as to why Morsi deserved and needed to be taken down. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2014, 12:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-civil-war-in-egypt-averted-90-yes-for-new-constitution/679071/317 "2014-01-31T12:33:24Z")
Mubarak resigned-- he was not “overthrown”. Morsi was forcibly removed from office. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2014, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-civil-war-in-egypt-averted-90-yes-for-new-constitution/679071/318 "2014-01-31T13:25:43Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > OK - my apologies for misunderstanding you. > > You claimed your post was about “what Obama has to deal with from the opposition here at home”. What Obama has to deal with is that he is trying to pretend that there wasn’t a military coup in Egypt. Which there was. So he should not be continuing to send them aid, because US law says that the US should not send aid to a country which has had a military coup. Which Egypt has had. > Regards, > Shodan **Shodan** , you realize that stopping military aid to Egypt would screw Israel over big time, right? ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2014, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-civil-war-in-egypt-averted-90-yes-for-new-constitution/679071/319 "2014-01-31T14:13:03Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > **Shodan** , you realize that stopping military aid to Egypt would screw Israel over big time, right? I don’t want the Islamic fanatics in charge of Egypt any more than you do, but the law says what it says. And I saw what happened to Iran, when the US backed a secular tyrant over a popular, Islamic tyrant. And this notion of “Egyptians can vote for whoever they want as long as it is someone I want” just doesn’t work. Yes, I realize it sucks. And I am on the other side of the world, and more or less safe from Islamic terrorism and at no risk of being attacked by my neighbors (again). Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2014, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-civil-war-in-egypt-averted-90-yes-for-new-constitution/679071/320 "2014-01-31T14:32:30Z")
I just don’t see how supporting Mubarak - who inherited from Sadat, who inherited from Nasser, who seized power via military coup - is any better than supporting Sissi. You guys supported one illegitimate military dictator for decades. Why not support another one? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-civil-war-in-egypt-averted-90-yes-for-new-constitution/679071.md?page=15) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-civil-war-in-egypt-averted-90-yes-for-new-constitution/679071.md?page=17)