# Is civil war in Egypt averted? 90% yes for new Constitution. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 17, 2014, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-civil-war-in-egypt-averted-90-yes-for-new-constitution/679071 "2014-01-17T16:30:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2014, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-civil-war-in-egypt-averted-90-yes-for-new-constitution/679071/41 "2014-01-18T00:24:18Z")
> [@Marmite\_Lover](#): > > oh GOD!! there’s always one isn’t there 😃 We propaganda-consuming Westerns are rather enamored of rule of law, it’s done right by us for some time now. ---
**Author:** ![Marmite\_Lover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Marmite\_Lover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marmite_Lover)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2014, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-civil-war-in-egypt-averted-90-yes-for-new-constitution/679071/42 "2014-01-18T00:25:58Z")
> [@](#): > > I understand, but a link in Arabic does me no good, you see. Reports in English are giving lower numbers. why are you obsessed? 😕 you will find out tomorrow > [@](#): > > So, even when they are just relaying the state media’s own reports, the NYT is fabricating stories? This sort of approach, hand-waving away reports that contain information you don’t like, makes actual debate impossible. If they are relaying state media then it is fine because that will be official. The problem is Cairo based Western reporters do not relay the truth back to NYT etc. Your government supports the MB so obviously your media need to support them too and that means the Cairo based reporters do their job and give biased inaccurate reports and downright lies often. I have them here Tweeting about army shooting them 2 miles from my house and it is lies!!! They sit in cafes in Zamalek with their laptops re tweeting tweets from MB Raba’a 4 finger wavers. They are a joke. No one takes them seriously. Add the Tweeps I gave you and see them being exposed daily and then you see how your NYT etc are manipulated. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2014, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-civil-war-in-egypt-averted-90-yes-for-new-constitution/679071/43 "2014-01-18T00:30:07Z")
> [@Marmite\_Lover](#): > > why are you obsessed? 😕 you will find out tomorrow I just asked you for a link. No need to fly off the handle. > [@Marmite Lover](#): > > If they are relaying state media then it is fine because that will be official. Good news, then. From the NYT piece I linked to: > [@](#): > > At least seven members of Strong Egypt, a moderate Islamist party, have been arrested for trying to hang posters against the charter, moving the party to boycott the vote rather than face more arrests. Two more women were arrested Tuesday for trying to put up opposition signs, **state media reported.** Bolding mine. And, again, Human Rights Watch backs them up. Do you accept that Islamist parties were suppressed in this referendum? ---
**Author:** ![Marmite\_Lover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Marmite\_Lover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marmite_Lover)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2014, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-civil-war-in-egypt-averted-90-yes-for-new-constitution/679071/44 "2014-01-18T00:36:56Z")
> [@](#): > > Well, I’ve given you a report that someone was arrested. Cite that marking on the ballot in this way is a crime, as opposed to merely disqualifying the ballot? I have yet to see any evidence he was arrested. Give me more and I will check with the police stations so you can sleep tonight :D. > [@](#): > > Democracy requires secret ballots. we Egyptians do not need to follow your rules 😃 Guess what we can even vote in a room and let everyone see our hands go up and what they are voting for, it’s called show of hands and they are counted, so you can keep your democracy and we will keep ours;) So, how do you explain the 97% figure? MB supporters spontaneously switching allegiance, or MB supporters boycotting the election? You are not paying attention LOL 97% of the people who voted voted YES. 47% or so didn’t vote so we dont know what they would have voted. Maybe they were away from home, or died, or were in jail, or abroad with no consulate near them, or sick or in hospital or working and couldn’t get to polls, many youth were sitting exams , or were MB, or were on jihad for the USA in Syria or Libya and the commander wouldn’t give them time off to vote, or on holiday, or swimming in the Red Sea and enjoying it too much to go vote, …etc ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2014, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-civil-war-in-egypt-averted-90-yes-for-new-constitution/679071/45 "2014-01-18T00:41:08Z")
> [@Marmite\_Lover](#): > > I have yet to see any evidence he was arrested. Give me more and I will check with the police stations so you can sleep tonight :D. I gave you a Washington Post story. That’s evidence. > [@Marmite Lover](#): > > we Egyptians do not need to follow your rules 😃 Guess what we can even vote in a room and let everyone see our hands go up and what they are voting for, it’s called show of hands and they are counted, so you can keep your democracy and we will keep ours;) Yeah, it’s going great…no need to look to nations who’ve adopted it successfully. What, exactly, is the anti-secret-ballot argument, besides “We won’t know who voted the wrong way”? > [@Marmite Lover](#): > > You are not paying attention LOL > > 97% of the people who voted voted YES. 47% or so didn’t vote so we dont know what they would have voted. Maybe they were away from home, or died, or were in jail, or abroad with no consulate near them, or sick or in hospital or working and couldn’t get to polls, or MB, or on holiday, or swimming in the Red Sea and enjoying it too much to go vote, …etc “Or MB”. Yeah, that might just have something to do with it. Again, they boycotted the election. ---
**Author:** ![Marmite\_Lover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Marmite\_Lover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marmite_Lover)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2014, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-civil-war-in-egypt-averted-90-yes-for-new-constitution/679071/46 "2014-01-18T00:46:50Z")
I’ll give you one example of the American nut cases giving their expert opinion. Of all people you must trust your dear PJ Crowley 😃 Todays Einstein Tweet for the American audience. > [@](#): > > A cliffhanger in #Egypt: 95 percent of the 38 percent of the people not in detention favor the new constitution. [http://nyti.ms/1cyqjQC](http://nyti.ms/1cyqjQC) That means that according to this genius 62% of Egyptians are in prison :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2014, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-civil-war-in-egypt-averted-90-yes-for-new-constitution/679071/47 "2014-01-18T00:49:56Z")
> [@Marmite\_Lover](#): > > I’ll give you one example of the American nut cases giving their expert opinion. > Of all people you must trust your dear PJ Crowley 😃 > > Todays Einstein Tweet for the American audience. > > That means that according to this genius 62% of Egyptians are in prison :smack: I think that’s what we call “sarcasm”. ---
**Author:** ![Marmite\_Lover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Marmite\_Lover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marmite_Lover)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2014, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-civil-war-in-egypt-averted-90-yes-for-new-constitution/679071/48 "2014-01-18T00:53:12Z")
I can’t even begin to count the amount of misinformation and downright lies in that article! example: The government also \*\*issued travel bans \*\*against as many as 20 opponents, including Islamist lawyers and lawmakers, left-leaning activists like Alaa Abd El Fattah ( **who is already in jail** after being accused of organizing a demonstration) Question why would he need a travel ban if he is in prison? Second Abdel Fattah was in jail for charges of setting fire to Ahmed Shafiks house not organising a demo. In those few lines there is utter lies! This is what Western reporters based in Cairo are faxing to NY and DC! ---
**Author:** ![Marmite\_Lover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Marmite\_Lover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marmite_Lover)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2014, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-civil-war-in-egypt-averted-90-yes-for-new-constitution/679071/49 "2014-01-18T00:56:59Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > I gave you a Washington Post story. That’s evidence. > > Yeah, it’s going great…no need to look to nations who’ve adopted it successfully. What, exactly, is the anti-secret-ballot argument, besides “We won’t know who voted the wrong way”? > > “Or MB”. Yeah, that might just have something to do with it. Again, they boycotted the election. :dubious: or 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2014, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-civil-war-in-egypt-averted-90-yes-for-new-constitution/679071/50 "2014-01-18T01:01:57Z")
> [@Marmite\_Lover](#): > > I can’t even begin to count the amount of misinformation and downright lies in that article! > > example: > > The government also \*\*issued travel bans \*\*against as many as 20 opponents, including Islamist lawyers and lawmakers, left-leaning activists like Alaa Abd El Fattah ( **who is already in jail** after being accused of organizing a demonstration) > > Question why would he need a travel ban if he is in prison? Could the ban not pre-date the (latest) imprisonment? Or be intended to apply in the event that Alaa Abd El Fattah was released? > [@Marmite Lover](#): > > Second Abdel Fattah was in jail for charges of setting fire to Ahmed Shafiks house not organising a demo. In those few lines there is utter lies! This is what Western reporters based in Cairo are faxing to NY and DC! [He’s been charged with both (convicted of one, actually)](http://english.ahram.org.eg/NewsContent/1/64/91505/Egypt/Politics-/Alaa-AbdelFattah,-jailed-activists-denied-lawyer-a.aspx): > [@](#): > > Abdel-Fattah and Maher were arrested in November, and the other two men in December. Adel, Douma and Maher were convicted in December of organising illegal protests, under the provisions of a new law that was passed in November, and sentenced to three years in jail. Their appeal is due to take place on 20 January. > > Abdel-Fattah was convicted last week of charges of torching the campaign headquarters of politician Ahmed Shafiq in 2012, and given a one-year suspended sentence. > > He faces further charges of organising illegal protests. Any comment on Human Rights Watch’s account of arrests of activists hanging posters? ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2014, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-civil-war-in-egypt-averted-90-yes-for-new-constitution/679071/51 "2014-01-18T01:02:58Z")
> [@Marmite\_Lover](#): > > :dubious: or 😃 Don’t know what to make of that…are you of the opinion that 97% of the Egyptian people support this constitution? ETA: Do you have an anti-secret-ballot argument? ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2014, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-civil-war-in-egypt-averted-90-yes-for-new-constitution/679071/52 "2014-01-18T03:22:25Z")
> [@Marmite\_Lover](#): > > We do not have church and state. > We have Muslims and Christians. > Muslims have their own family law courts and the Christians have their own family law courts and again we are different to other countries in this aspect. > Both religions are tried under the French court system for criminal law. > No Christian is tried under Sharia. No Jew is tried under Sharia in egypt. Sharia family law is only for Muslims and that is clear in the constitution. I was just pointing out that they were prohibiting religious parties. So no muslim brotherhood. > [@Human\_Action](#): > > Don’t know what to make of that…are you of the opinion that 97% of the Egyptian people support this constitution? > > ETA: Do you have an anti-secret-ballot argument? 97 of people who voted approved of the ballot. Voting boycotts are usually conducted by people who know they are going to lose anyway or people who are convinced that the voting is corrupt. So unless you can point to ballot stuffing or something like that, it seems like the will of the people who could be bothered to vote. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2014, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-civil-war-in-egypt-averted-90-yes-for-new-constitution/679071/53 "2014-01-18T04:02:18Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > 97 of people who voted approved of the ballot. Voting boycotts are usually conducted by people who know they are going to lose anyway or people who are convinced that the voting is corrupt. So unless you can point to ballot stuffing or something like that, it seems like the will of the people who could be bothered to vote. Exactly… **Marmite Lover** ’s MB neighbors notwithstanding, obviously this result is only indicative of the support of a portion of the Egyptian populace, somewhere around 38%. ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2014, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-civil-war-in-egypt-averted-90-yes-for-new-constitution/679071/54 "2014-01-18T04:09:34Z")
Free ice cream wouldn’t get 97.7% support. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2014, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-civil-war-in-egypt-averted-90-yes-for-new-constitution/679071/55 "2014-01-18T04:11:58Z")
> [@marshmallow](#): > > Free ice cream wouldn’t get 97.7% support. Which flavor? ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2014, 6:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-civil-war-in-egypt-averted-90-yes-for-new-constitution/679071/56 "2014-01-18T06:29:25Z")
> [@Marmite\_Lover](#): > > Do you know that Obama has at least 5 MB members in his admin one being Homeland Advisor? > > Do you know that Morsi’s wifes Sisterhood Foundation has been hired by Hillary Clintons campaign? Bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2014, 6:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-civil-war-in-egypt-averted-90-yes-for-new-constitution/679071/57 "2014-01-18T06:39:54Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Bullshit. Apologies, I was a bit too terse. Uncle, could you please provide a cite for this. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2014, 8:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-civil-war-in-egypt-averted-90-yes-for-new-constitution/679071/58 "2014-01-18T08:20:33Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Apologies, I was a bit too terse. Cite? ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2014, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-civil-war-in-egypt-averted-90-yes-for-new-constitution/679071/59 "2014-01-18T16:46:23Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Cite? Heh. ---
**Author:** ![Learjeff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/94ad74/32.png) [@Learjeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Learjeff)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2014, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-civil-war-in-egypt-averted-90-yes-for-new-constitution/679071/60 "2014-01-18T17:27:51Z")
> [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > Democracy doesn’t appear in the cards in the near future, but were free and fair elections possible, I doubt that most Egyptians would vote in favor of an Islamic theocracy. Yes, and it’s a shame. They went right back to the old guard, thanks to a military coup spurred by incalcitrance of the bureaucrats that remained in office letting everything fall apart to make Morsi look bad (in addition to Morsi allowing the Islamic Brotherhood’s goals to overshadow that of the public). > [@Marmite\_Lover](#): > > 97.7% Egyptians voted for Sisi and Constitution. No, only 97.7% of Egyptians **who voted**. Get your facts right, or your propaganda will be summarily ignored. > [@Marmite\_Lover](#): > > 97.7% Egyptian said NO to Radical Islamist Terrorists and their foreign and local supporters OK, you’ve proven that you’re totally biased. Thanks, in case we didn’t already know. It’s possible that democracy never had a chance in Egypt, and that they’re better off with a military dictatorship. That’s for the Egyptians to work out; may God have pity on them. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-civil-war-in-egypt-averted-90-yes-for-new-constitution/679071.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-civil-war-in-egypt-averted-90-yes-for-new-constitution/679071.md?page=4)