# Is civil war in Egypt averted? 90% yes for new Constitution. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 17, 2014, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-civil-war-in-egypt-averted-90-yes-for-new-constitution/679071 "2014-01-17T16:30:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2014, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-civil-war-in-egypt-averted-90-yes-for-new-constitution/679071/61 "2014-01-18T17:38:42Z")
The news now says 98.1% votes were “yes”. Not quite as good as Ivory Soap, which is 99 44/100s pure. ---
**Author:** ![bob\_2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bob_2/32/3341_2.png) [@bob\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bob_2)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2014, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-civil-war-in-egypt-averted-90-yes-for-new-constitution/679071/62 "2014-01-18T17:53:58Z")
Can anyone tell me what proportion of the American voting public voted for Obama? ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2014, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-civil-war-in-egypt-averted-90-yes-for-new-constitution/679071/63 "2014-01-18T18:15:46Z")
> [@bob\_2](#): > > Can anyone tell me what proportion of the American voting public voted for Obama? Of those eligible to vote, 29.72% voted for Obama in 2012. ---
**Author:** ![Dissonance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/85f322/32.png) [@Dissonance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dissonance)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2014, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-civil-war-in-egypt-averted-90-yes-for-new-constitution/679071/64 "2014-01-18T18:48:48Z")
> [@Marmite\_Lover](#): > > Do you know that Obama has at least 5 MB members in his admin one being Homeland Advisor? > > Do you know that Morsi’s wifes Sisterhood Foundation has been hired by Hillary Clintons campaign? Well yeah, that’s cos Osama - I mean Obama - is a cryptomuslim.:rolleyes: You of course have a source for this that isn’t WND or [rense.com](http://rense.com), right? ---
**Author:** ![Marmite\_Lover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Marmite\_Lover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marmite_Lover)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2014, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-civil-war-in-egypt-averted-90-yes-for-new-constitution/679071/65 "2014-01-18T21:23:32Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > Don’t know what to make of that…are you of the opinion that 97% of the Egyptian people support this constitution? > > ETA: Do you have an anti-secret-ballot argument? I don’t know whether you are joking or not. Again **97% of the people who voted voted YES** Read it slowly a few times. I already answered you on the ballot question. ---
**Author:** ![Marmite\_Lover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Marmite\_Lover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marmite_Lover)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2014, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-civil-war-in-egypt-averted-90-yes-for-new-constitution/679071/66 "2014-01-18T21:27:03Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > I was just pointing out that they were prohibiting religious parties. So no muslim brotherhood. > > 97 of people who voted approved of the ballot. Voting boycotts are usually conducted by people who know they are going to lose anyway or people who are convinced that the voting is corrupt. So unless you can point to ballot stuffing or something like that, it seems like the will of the people who could be bothered to vote. 1. In Egypt Constitution it is illegal to have a religious based political party. Unlike Germany 😉 2. Correct ---
**Author:** ![Marmite\_Lover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Marmite\_Lover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marmite_Lover)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2014, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-civil-war-in-egypt-averted-90-yes-for-new-constitution/679071/67 "2014-01-18T21:28:13Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Bullshit. 😃 Nope check it out 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2014, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-civil-war-in-egypt-averted-90-yes-for-new-constitution/679071/68 "2014-01-18T21:39:25Z")
> [@Marmite\_Lover](#): > > **97% of the people who voted voted YES** In other words, almost two thirds of the voters did not support this new constitution. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Marmite\_Lover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Marmite\_Lover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marmite_Lover)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2014, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-civil-war-in-egypt-averted-90-yes-for-new-constitution/679071/69 "2014-01-18T21:41:20Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Apologies, I was a bit too terse. > > Uncle, could you please provide a cite for this. [http://i43.tinypic.com/1495fec.png](http://i43.tinypic.com/1495fec.png) One of them the Homeland Advisor guy Elibiary had the Raba’a avatar for months and was a big supporter of Morsi during Rabaa sit in. Google removed many of the images after a huge internet campaign against this one and there are only a few places you can get the image of the old avatar now. You can read about one of the 6 US admin Muslim Brotherhood members Elibiary here. [http://www.bizpacreview.com/2013/09/13/muslim-brotherhood-supporter-gets-homeland-security-promotion-83259](http://www.bizpacreview.com/2013/09/13/muslim-brotherhood-supporter-gets-homeland-security-promotion-83259) Just think. Americans don’t even know that their HOMELAND SECURITY!!! of all depts has MB members in it 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2014, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-civil-war-in-egypt-averted-90-yes-for-new-constitution/679071/70 "2014-01-18T21:42:46Z")
> [@Marmite\_Lover](#): > > I don’t know whether you are joking or not. > > Again > > **97% of the people who voted voted YES** > > Read it slowly a few times. I asked because of your remarks about people not voting because they were on vacation or taking exams, implying that the referendum vote reflects the general population’s sentiments. > [@](#): > > I already answered you on the ballot question. No, you didn’t. “We don’t have to folliw your rules” is not an argument for non-secret ballots. ---
**Author:** ![Marmite\_Lover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Marmite\_Lover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marmite_Lover)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2014, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-civil-war-in-egypt-averted-90-yes-for-new-constitution/679071/71 "2014-01-18T21:43:48Z")
> [@Learjeff](#): > > Yes, and it’s a shame. They went right back to the old guard, thanks to a military coup spurred by incalcitrance of the bureaucrats that remained in office letting everything fall apart to make Morsi look bad (in addition to Morsi allowing the Islamic Brotherhood’s goals to overshadow that of the public). > > No, only 97.7% of Egyptians **who voted**. Get your facts right, or your propaganda will be summarily ignored. > > OK, you’ve proven that you’re totally biased. Thanks, in case we didn’t already know. > > It’s possible that democracy never had a chance in Egypt, and that they’re better off with a military dictatorship. That’s for the Egyptians to work out; may God have pity on them. IF you check back my posts you will see I said many times that 97% of voters voted YES. I was not being biased and remember English is not my native language. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2014, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-civil-war-in-egypt-averted-90-yes-for-new-constitution/679071/72 "2014-01-18T21:52:52Z")
> [@Marmite\_Lover](#): > > IF you check back my posts you will see I said many times that 97% of voters voted YES. I was not being biased and remember English is not my native language. You also said that turnout was \> 50%, but: > [@](#): > > [Egypt’s High Election Commission said 38.6 percent of the country’s more than 53 million eligible voters took part in the two-day poll Tuesday and Wednesday.](http://news.yahoo.com/voters-overwhelmingly-back-egypt-constitution-204816021.html) ---
**Author:** ![Marmite\_Lover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Marmite\_Lover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marmite_Lover)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2014, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-civil-war-in-egypt-averted-90-yes-for-new-constitution/679071/73 "2014-01-18T21:54:45Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > In other words, almost two thirds of the voters did not support this new constitution. > > Regards, > Shodan No It means that 97% of the ones who voted voted Yes It does not mean that the rest were against constitution. Some were but since Egyptians are not used to voting at all many do not vote. Also many are illiterate and simple people who live in villages who simply have no idea about it or care. Also Egyptians are exhausted and dealing with terrorism daily now so many things need to be considered. USA between 1960-1995 was between 40% - 55% turnout for elections. ---
**Author:** ![Marmite\_Lover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Marmite\_Lover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marmite_Lover)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2014, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-civil-war-in-egypt-averted-90-yes-for-new-constitution/679071/74 "2014-01-18T21:59:44Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > I asked because of your remarks about people not voting because they were on vacation or taking exams, implying that the referendum vote reflects the general population’s sentiments. > > No, you didn’t. “We don’t have to folliw your rules” is not an argument for non-secret ballots. 1. Again…The people who voted overwhelmingly voted YES. The rest there are many reason why they did not or could not vote. There is very little in it that ANY groups would disagree with anyway in the new dostour considering the Noor, Al Azhar, Coptic Church and the Pope the 3 main sections who Egyptians listen to backed the dostour 100%. What is your problem? 😕 1. I already answered the ballot question. ---
**Author:** ![Marmite\_Lover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Marmite\_Lover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marmite_Lover)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2014, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-civil-war-in-egypt-averted-90-yes-for-new-constitution/679071/75 "2014-01-18T22:06:09Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Of those eligible to vote, 29.72% voted for Obama in 2012. So are Americans ready to do what Egyptians done and remove a president less than 30% want? Oh no!! you have democracy so you have to wait till next election 😉 Thank God we don’t have democracy then and were able to remove 2 really bad presidents in space of 2 years 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2014, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-civil-war-in-egypt-averted-90-yes-for-new-constitution/679071/76 "2014-01-18T22:08:17Z")
> [@Marmite\_Lover](#): > > USA between 1960-1995 was between 40% - 55% turnout for elections. You can’t compare those elections, half of which are mid-term elections, to a vote on an entirely new constitution. ---
**Author:** ![Marmite\_Lover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Marmite\_Lover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marmite_Lover)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2014, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-civil-war-in-egypt-averted-90-yes-for-new-constitution/679071/77 "2014-01-18T22:13:21Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > You can’t compare those elections, half of which are mid-term elections, to a vote on an entirely new constitution. What was the turnout of voters and % of YES votes who voted in the Americans Constitution referendum? Was it a secret ballot where the citizens had to do it behind a screen? It was done democratically? right…one man one vote like us in Egypt ---
**Author:** ![Corry\_El](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecae2f/32.png) [@Corry\_El](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Corry_El)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2014, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-civil-war-in-egypt-averted-90-yes-for-new-constitution/679071/78 "2014-01-18T22:17:55Z")
Voter turnout by itself is not a measure of legitimacy of result. Some of the people calculating which percent of Egyptians ‘opposed’ the constitutional changes by not voting are probably the same ones who’d say eg. Obama is illegitimate because less than 30% of the eligible people voted for him (or Bush same, or most recent US Presidents, in a country where high 50’s % of votes cast is a ‘landslide’ and high 50’s % of eligible voters ‘blockbuster turnout’). However a country like Egypt just doesn’t have a working democratic system. In such countries there is no holy legitimacy of people like Morsi, or his new constitution with got high (though much then 98%) approval. A real democratic system is about more than an election or two. The Muslim Brotherhood is a cancer, had and has no intention of a real democratic system if it can get enough power not to need one anymore. The return to Nasser/Sadat/Mubarak type regime we’ve seen is not a democratic system either, obviously, but probably provides more chance of one in the future will less horror in the meantime than the Brotherhood. I don’t think it’s wise for the US (I consider first since I’m American) to be any more involved in Egypt’s politics than it has to be: no good is unlikely to come of it. However there was no reason to back Morsi over a return of the generals, in theory or practically speaking either. And there’s nothing ‘hypocritical’ in preferring the evil of the current regime to the greater one of the Brotherhood. ---
**Author:** ![Marmite\_Lover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Marmite\_Lover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marmite_Lover)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2014, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-civil-war-in-egypt-averted-90-yes-for-new-constitution/679071/79 "2014-01-18T22:22:22Z")
Any British here? that other beautiful example and lecturer on democracy. What was voter turnout and YES vote figures for their constitution? Was that secret ballot too in polling stations? Does the Queen swear allegiance to the people? ---
**Author:** ![Marmite\_Lover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Marmite\_Lover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marmite_Lover)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2014, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-civil-war-in-egypt-averted-90-yes-for-new-constitution/679071/80 "2014-01-18T22:41:59Z")
> [@Corry\_El](#): > > Voter turnout by itself is not a measure of legitimacy of result. Some of the people calculating which percent of Egyptians ‘opposed’ the constitutional changes by not voting are probably the same ones who’d say eg. Obama is illegitimate because less than 30% of the eligible people voted for him (or Bush same, or most recent US Presidents, in a country where high 50’s % of votes cast is a ‘landslide’ and high 50’s % of eligible voters ‘blockbuster turnout’). > > However a country like Egypt just doesn’t have a working democratic system. In such countries there is no holy legitimacy of people **like Morsi, or his new constitution** with got high (though much then 98%) approval. A real democratic system is about more than an election or two. The Muslim Brotherhood is a cancer, had and has no intention of a real democratic system if it can get enough power not to need one anymore. The return to Nasser/Sadat/Mubarak type regime we’ve seen is not a democratic system either, obviously, but probably provides more chance of one in the future will less horror in the meantime than the Brotherhood. > > I don’t think it’s wise for the US (I consider first since I’m American) to be any more involved in Egypt’s politics than it has to be: no good is unlikely to come of it. However there was no reason to back Morsi over a return of the generals, in theory or practically speaking either. And there’s nothing ‘hypocritical’ in preferring the evil of the current regime to the greater one of the Brotherhood. 1. The new dostour is not Morsi’s. It was headed by Amr Moussa, the church, the azhar, leading constitutional experts, activists, reps from different levels of society like dwarves and handicapped etc. What do you mean a return to the generals? Adly Mansour is the interim president and a better more honest man you could not find in Egypt. He said he would not take the position IF he was forced in any way to do anything against his morals. He lives just 10 minutes drive from me and you would never know he was a president from his humble home. The reason that Sisi seems to be the focus is because of the USA I think. Sisi was asked by Tamarod to remove Morsi after 30 million petition and he did it. Sisi and us all saw on TV that Morsi was calling for Egyptians in Cairo stadium that night to go to Syria in jihad. Do be rebel martyrs for the brothers in Syria. This was one of the first signs that Morsi had to go. The Egyptians went crazy that night rejecting his call. BUT I think you probably dont get to hear the full story being in USA. Sisi and Egyptians will not interfere in any other countries affair unless under attack like with Israel. We are a very peaceful nation. Egyptians are not know for aggression and invasions and wars. Morsi wants a caliphate he is not a nationalist. The brothers would see Egypt burn and they declared it many times because they see Egypt as only part of the caliphate. Now the question is this. Why does the USA back the Morsi and MB and not Sisi? Why does Obama send Kerry and Mc Cain and Graham and Clinton and the EU Ashton pleading with our government to release the brothers? Khairat al Shater says he will reveal all in his box of black secrets about the USA and Obama etc if the Egyptians take them to trial so what is in that box! Dont forget!!! Omar Suleiman died after he mentioned his black box secrets! Don’t forget that the BROTHERS had access to the countries files for a full year!!! They know too many secrets dont they about Egypt and USA. The US needs the brothers. They want the jihadists it provides for their wars in Iraq and Syria and Libya etc and they don’t want any brother who has had access to the countries International files for a year to speak about them. Look what they did to Snowden and Manning. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-civil-war-in-egypt-averted-90-yes-for-new-constitution/679071.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-civil-war-in-egypt-averted-90-yes-for-new-constitution/679071.md?page=5)