# Is civil war in Egypt averted? 90% yes for new Constitution. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 17, 2014, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-civil-war-in-egypt-averted-90-yes-for-new-constitution/679071 "2014-01-17T16:30:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 52
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2014, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-civil-war-in-egypt-averted-90-yes-for-new-constitution/679071/1021 "2014-02-28T16:50:26Z")
> [@Marmite\_Lover](#): > > [QUOE]In early 2012, Muslim Brotherhood presidential candidate Mohammed Morsi pranced around Egypt proclaiming “Jihad is our path,” and thought there was nothing better than to die in the cause of Allah—that is, the exact language used by terrorists! > > _snip_ > > Does this document really exist, showing the $8 billion dollar bribe signed by Obama or one of his representatives? > > Undoubtably. [/QUOTE] Marmite Lover, this is about 80% of an article from another site that you’ve posted without attribution or argument. This is a violation of a few SDMB rules. 1. Posting an article in most of its entirety. 2. Posting a quote like that without attribution. 3. Posting a quote without any original content. I’m not going to warn you for this but I will note that you seem to be having a very difficult time learning the rules of GD. Further violations - combined with your history of earning infractions - can and will quickly lead to a revocation of your posting privileges. ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2014, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-civil-war-in-egypt-averted-90-yes-for-new-constitution/679071/1022 "2014-02-28T20:47:01Z")
> [@Marmite\_Lover](#): > > [QUOE] > > Investigative journalist Jerome Corsi has obtained a copy of the document held by the Egyptian military, proving the Obama regime sent millions of dollars in bribes to the Muslim Brotherhood. > > Undoubtably. A little advice. When you see ‘Jerome Corsi’ on anything put it down and run like hell. Whatever’s wrong with him might be contagious. ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2014, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-civil-war-in-egypt-averted-90-yes-for-new-constitution/679071/1023 "2014-03-24T18:30:35Z")
The latest news is that Egypt court sentences 528 Morsi supporters to death: > **[Egypt court sentences 528 Morsi supporters to death](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-26712124)** > > A court in Egypt sentences to death 528 supporters of ousted President Mohammed Morsi on charges including murder. Surprised there is no discussion of this here. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2014, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-civil-war-in-egypt-averted-90-yes-for-new-constitution/679071/1024 "2014-03-24T21:04:20Z")
Another manifestation of the flowering of democracy in Egypt, no doubt. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2014, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-civil-war-in-egypt-averted-90-yes-for-new-constitution/679071/1025 "2014-03-24T21:06:40Z")
> [@PastTense](#): > > The latest news is that Egypt court sentences 528 Morsi supporters to death: > [http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-26712124](http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-26712124) > > Surprised there is no discussion of this here. I guess Ukraine kinda kicked this off the radar, but this development is hardly surprising. To think that the military took over (again) in order to establish some enlightened society in the name of the people, despite decades of running a very unenlightened one, was only swallowed by the most gullible. ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2014, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-civil-war-in-egypt-averted-90-yes-for-new-constitution/679071/1026 "2014-03-31T23:00:36Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > I guess Ukraine kinda kicked this off the radar, but this development is hardly surprising. To think that the military took over (again) in order to establish some enlightened society in the name of the people, despite decades of running a very unenlightened one, was only swallowed by the most gullible. A lower judge’s decision is likely to be overturned. The judge was pissed because a policeman was killed during protests. > [@](#): > > The verdicts are subject to appeal and would likely be overturned, rights lawyers said. But they said the swiftness and harshness of the rulings on such a large scale deepened concerns that Egypt’s courts have been deeply politicized and that due process is being swept away amid the crackdown on Morsi’s Muslim Brotherhood that followed his July overthrow. > > Read more at [Egypt Sentences 529 Muslim Brotherhooders To Death « Pat Dollard](http://patdollard.com/2014/03/egypt-sentences-529-muslim-brotherhood-members-to-death/#uDtGIFLuatlkDuRe.99) ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2014, 8:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-civil-war-in-egypt-averted-90-yes-for-new-constitution/679071/1027 "2014-04-28T08:16:11Z")
At least Egypt knows how to process trials efficiently: “An Egyptian court has recommended the death sentence for the leader of the Muslim Brotherhood and 682 supporters, and handed down a final capital punishment ruling for 37 others, judicial sources said on Monday.” [http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/04/28/us-egypt-brotherhood-idUSBREA3R0J420140428](http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/04/28/us-egypt-brotherhood-idUSBREA3R0J420140428) ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2014, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-civil-war-in-egypt-averted-90-yes-for-new-constitution/679071/1028 "2014-04-28T22:02:52Z")
Our position in Egypt seems to be the diametric opposite of our position in Ukraine. Of course noone said that we had to be fair and consistent in our international affairs. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2014, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-civil-war-in-egypt-averted-90-yes-for-new-constitution/679071/1029 "2014-04-28T22:25:11Z")
“Our position” meaning what exactly? Certainly the official American position was a little lukewarm to the military coup n Egypt but resumed funding despite the “no supporting coups” legislation. They backed the Ukrainian coup fairly wholeheartedly. I have a hard time describing those positions as “diametrically opposed”. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2014, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-civil-war-in-egypt-averted-90-yes-for-new-constitution/679071/1030 "2014-04-28T22:36:35Z")
Plus, nobody invaded Egypt. The U.S. government, like every other government, is much more tolerant toward what it sees as “internal affairs”. ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2014, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-civil-war-in-egypt-averted-90-yes-for-new-constitution/679071/1031 "2014-05-06T21:58:10Z")
In Egypt a potential civil war has been averted and an election is about to be held. Many here wanted a million MB Islamists to dictate their Islamist theocracy to 80 million. Egypt is stabilizing. The Islamists weren’t so popular were they? > [@](#): > > Egypt’s Abdel Fattah al-Sisi says Muslim Brotherhood is finished, confirms assassination attempts > **[Egypt presidential favourite says Muslim Brotherhood finished](https://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-05-06/egypts-sisi-says-muslim-brotherhood-is-finished/5432860)** > > Egyptian presidential frontrunner Abdel Fattah al-Sisi has appeared to rule out reconciliation with the Muslim Brotherhood movement, raising the spectre of a prolonged conflict with a group he said was finished. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2014, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-civil-war-in-egypt-averted-90-yes-for-new-constitution/679071/1032 "2014-05-07T12:24:24Z")
> [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > In Egypt a potential civil war has been averted and an election is about to be held. Many here wanted a million MB Islamists to dictate their Islamist theocracy to 80 million. Egypt is stabilizing. The Islamists weren’t so popular were they? > > [Egypt's Abdel Fattah al-Sisi says Muslim Brotherhood is finished, confirms assassination attempts - ABC News](http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2014-05-06/egypts-sisi-says-muslim-brotherhood-is-finished/5432860) They were popular enough to win the presidency. It’s quite possible they would have done poorly in the next set of elections, but we’ll never know, as they’ve been outlawed and their leaders jailed or killed. Viva democracy! ---
**Author:** ![Dissonance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/85f322/32.png) [@Dissonance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dissonance)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2014, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-civil-war-in-egypt-averted-90-yes-for-new-constitution/679071/1033 "2014-05-07T16:02:52Z")
> [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > In Egypt a potential civil war has been averted and an election is about to be held. Many here wanted a million MB Islamists to dictate their Islamist theocracy to 80 million. Egypt is stabilizing. The Islamists weren’t so popular were they? > > [Egypt's Abdel Fattah al-Sisi says Muslim Brotherhood is finished, confirms assassination attempts - ABC News](http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2014-05-06/egypts-sisi-says-muslim-brotherhood-is-finished/5432860) > > > [@](#): > > > > An Islamist militant insurgency has been growing since Mr Morsi’s overthrow, killing several hundred members of the security forces in bombings and shootings. > > > > The interior minister survived an attempt on his life in September. > > > > The army-backed authorities have outlawed the Brotherhood, which won all the elections after Mr Mubarak’s fall. Thousands of its supporters have been arrested and hundreds killed. > > > > Top leaders, including Mr Morsi, are on trial. > > > > A court sentenced the leader of the Brotherhood, Mohammed Badie, and hundreds of supporters to death last week. I guess I’m missing something here; they were so unpopular that they had to have their election nullified at the point of a gun, their party outlawed, thousands arrested, hundreds killed, and hundreds more sentenced to death? Hmm, and this growing insurgency that has killed hundreds of members of the security forces in bombings and shootings is proof that civil war is averted. Cheers **Human Action** , viva democracy! ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2014, 9:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-civil-war-in-egypt-averted-90-yes-for-new-constitution/679071/1034 "2014-05-09T09:52:50Z")
> [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > In Egypt a potential civil war has been averted and an election is about to be held. Many here wanted a million MB Islamists to dictate their Islamist theocracy to 80 million. Egypt is stabilizing. The Islamists weren’t so popular were they? > > [Egypt's Abdel Fattah al-Sisi says Muslim Brotherhood is finished, confirms assassination attempts - ABC News](http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2014-05-06/egypts-sisi-says-muslim-brotherhood-is-finished/5432860) It is not averted, it is just beginning as the problems in the Sinai and in Middle Egypt are showing. Your understanding is very very strange, I think is the only way to say this. It is very strange to cheer a military coup that is also banning the secular opposition groups that motivated the fall of the regime Mubarek. Very strange democracy this… ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2014, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-civil-war-in-egypt-averted-90-yes-for-new-constitution/679071/1035 "2014-05-17T03:30:15Z")
> [@Ramira](#): > > It is not averted, it is just beginning as the problems in the Sinai and in Middle Egypt are showing. Your understanding is very very strange, I think is the only way to say this. > > It is very strange to cheer a military coup that is also banning the secular opposition groups that motivated the fall of the regime Mubarek. Very strange democracy this… I did not say it was democracy. The democracy is about to come resting on the shoulders of stability. Morsi was not taking Egypt into democracy either. What was worse was the abandonment of stability as the objective for the sake of Islamist theocracy and ideology which was rejected by tens of millions on the streets. My position is that Egypt is still in a revolution. The Tahir Square protesters are now aligned with the military and business and middle class and they will likely vote Al Sisi in as next president - mostly for the stability that continues to be a welcome norm. I’ll note that you are predicting a civil war is coming to Egypt. Can you say how big and how soon. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2014, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-civil-war-in-egypt-averted-90-yes-for-new-constitution/679071/1036 "2014-05-17T04:48:49Z")
> [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > I did not say it was democracy. The democracy is about to come resting on the shoulders of stability. Stability being defined as suppressing the opposition. Yeah, we all know about that kind of “stability”. That was the stability that Mubarak offered. Dictators throughout the ages have been assuring us that democracy is right around the corner as soon as “stability” is achieved. Most of us are not fooled by that rhetoric. Democracy does not spring from oppression. Oppression springs from oppression. ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2014, 8:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-civil-war-in-egypt-averted-90-yes-for-new-constitution/679071/1037 "2014-05-17T08:38:53Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Stability being defined as suppressing the opposition. Morsi was setting himself up to suppress the non-Islamist opposition in non-democratic ways. He could not do it without acquiescence of the military. The Egyptian economy was unstable and on the verge of collapse. Complain all you want about the situation in Egypt. There obviously was no massive support for the Muslim Brotherhood as there was expected to be. Well there was no support unless you count al Qaeda and the rest of the terrorists that have been stirring up trouble in the Sinai for years. ---
**Author:** ![Dissonance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/85f322/32.png) [@Dissonance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dissonance)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2014, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-civil-war-in-egypt-averted-90-yes-for-new-constitution/679071/1038 "2014-05-17T17:29:18Z")
> [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > Morsi was setting himself up to suppress the non-Islamist opposition in non-democratic ways. He could not do it without acquiescence of the military. The military, on the other hand, is able to go about the suppression of the opposition in non-democratic ways without having to get the acquiescence of anyone else. Which is exactly what they’ve been doing, what you’ve been trying to pass off as “creating stability” and what you keep assuring us will be followed some day in a galaxy far, far away by democracy. What the hell, even Franco eventually died and Spain moved towards becoming a democracy. Who knows, maybe in another 36 years Egypt will have enough stability to move towards becoming an actual democracy. ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2014, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-civil-war-in-egypt-averted-90-yes-for-new-constitution/679071/1039 "2014-05-17T18:13:40Z")
> [@Dissonance](#): > > I guess I’m missing something here; they were so unpopular that they had to have their election nullified at the point of a gun, their party outlawed, thousands arrested, hundreds killed, and hundreds more sentenced to death? Hmm, and this growing insurgency that has killed hundreds of members of the security forces in bombings and shootings is proof that civil war is averted. Cheers **Human Action** , viva democracy! > [@Dissonance](#): > > The military, on the other hand, is able to go about the suppression of the opposition in non-democratic ways without having to get the acquiescence of anyone else. Which is exactly what they’ve been doing, what you’ve been trying to pass off as “creating stability” and what you keep assuring us will be followed some day in a galaxy far, far away by democracy. What the hell, even Franco eventually died and Spain moved towards becoming a democracy. Who knows, maybe in another 36 years Egypt will have enough stability to move towards becoming an actual democracy. What’s the rush toward democracy if it produces chaos and civil war and the alternative that would be religious oppression. Its a choice between secular or religious oppression for the time being. And it looks as if secular oppression will win the next vote. Say what you will, the majority will vote for al Sisi / not because they feat oppression but because they want stability. ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2014, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-civil-war-in-egypt-averted-90-yes-for-new-constitution/679071/1040 "2014-05-18T18:22:06Z")
Does anyone think that Egyptian peace with Israel is less stable now than it was under Morsi? Does anyone think that deteriorating peace between Israel and Egypt would improve the lives of very many Egyptians for the sake of sustaining Morsi’s version of Muslim Brotherhood democracy? > [@Ramira](#): > > It is not averted, it is just beginning as the problems in the Sinai and in Middle Egypt are showing. Your understanding is very very strange, I think is the only way to say this. What makes you think the problems in the Sinai are just beginning to develop into civil war? > [@](#): > > Presidential candidate Abdel Fattah Al-Sisi discussed Monday the future of Egyptian forces in Sinai, saying that “peace [with Israel] is now stable” and that “our neighbours” understand that the presence of the forces in Sinai prevents the region from becoming a base for militancy against Egypt and its neighbours. \*\*Peace with Israel is now stable: Al-Sisi \*\*/ AbdelHalim H. AbdAllah / May 13, 2014 / > **[Peace with Israel is now stable: Al-Sisi - Dailynewsegypt](https://www.dailynewsegypt.com/2014/05/13/peace-israel-now-stable-al-sisi/)** > > Presidential candidate vows Egyptian intervention if any Arab country is “threatened” I understand that keeping good relations with Israel by eliminating a ‘hub for terrorism’ in the Sinai is good for all people in that region. Morsi does not appear to have grasped a fundamental understanding of what needs to be done there. > [@](#): > > The presidential candidate said that Sinai had turned into a “hub for terrorism” since 2011 and the attacks that were made on police stations and security personnel. He added that during former president Mohamed Morsi’s year in office, the political atmosphere had been appealing to jihadists, especially after Morsi had granted amnesty to a number of extremist figures. > > “The [Brotherhood] have created an environment for terrorism in Egypt,” said Al-Sisi > **[Peace with Israel is now stable: Al-Sisi - Dailynewsegypt](https://www.dailynewsegypt.com/2014/05/13/peace-israel-now-stable-al-sisi/)** > > Presidential candidate vows Egyptian intervention if any Arab country is “threatened” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-civil-war-in-egypt-averted-90-yes-for-new-constitution/679071.md?page=51) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-civil-war-in-egypt-averted-90-yes-for-new-constitution/679071.md?page=53)