# Is Clinton slinging mud at Obama (and blaming it on the right-wing conspiracy)? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 23, 2007, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-clinton-slinging-mud-at-obama-and-blaming-it-on-the-right-wing-conspiracy/389024 "2007-01-23T00:59:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2007, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-clinton-slinging-mud-at-obama-and-blaming-it-on-the-right-wing-conspiracy/389024/21 "2007-01-23T04:02:54Z")
I dunno. This whole thing seems sorta _Primary Colors_ to me. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2007, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-clinton-slinging-mud-at-obama-and-blaming-it-on-the-right-wing-conspiracy/389024/22 "2007-01-23T04:04:28Z")
[QUOTE=Czarcasm] [Here’s the REAL story.](http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/01/22/obama.madrassa/index.html) BTW, you sort of “forgot” to mention that the _Washington Times_ and _Insight_ are owned by the same company. [/QUOTE] That link and that fact are in the OP. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2007, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-clinton-slinging-mud-at-obama-and-blaming-it-on-the-right-wing-conspiracy/389024/23 "2007-01-23T04:05:08Z")
[QUOTE=spoke-] No doubt, but I suspect they draw the line at flat-out libel. [/QUOTE] Why? It’s never stopped them in the past. ETA: have you no knowledge of the reputation of the _Washington Times_? The Moonies are about as credible as the Scientologists. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2007, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-clinton-slinging-mud-at-obama-and-blaming-it-on-the-right-wing-conspiracy/389024/24 "2007-01-23T04:10:53Z")
OK, so no one believes that the Clinton camp is the source of this mud-slinging? They are above that sort of thing, I suppose? ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2007, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-clinton-slinging-mud-at-obama-and-blaming-it-on-the-right-wing-conspiracy/389024/25 "2007-01-23T04:12:37Z")
[QUOTE=spoke-] OK, so no one believes that the Clinton camp is the source of this mud-slinging? They are above that sort of thing, I suppose? [/QUOTE] No one said they were. What we said was that the people reporting this have an incredibly shady reputation. They’re known for pulling this kind of shit all the time. ETA: why are you so eager to believe that Hillary was behind it? ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2007, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-clinton-slinging-mud-at-obama-and-blaming-it-on-the-right-wing-conspiracy/389024/26 "2007-01-23T04:22:57Z")
[QUOTE=spoke-] OK, so no one believes that the Clinton camp is the source of this mud-slinging? They are above that sort of thing, I suppose? [/QUOTE] Of course not, but what do they gain from such an easily exposed lie? Also, the timing of the lie displays political naiveness such as I would never associate with the Clinton camp - it’s about 13 months too early. My judgement is that it comes from some Matt Drudge wannabe. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2007, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-clinton-slinging-mud-at-obama-and-blaming-it-on-the-right-wing-conspiracy/389024/27 "2007-01-23T04:28:05Z")
[QUOTE=Guinastasia] ETA: why are you so eager to believe that Hillary was behind it? [/QUOTE] Eager? I am just reading what has been written. I’m not the one trying to explain anything away. 🙂 I can easily imagine Hillary’s people digging for this info. I can easily imagine them wanting to leak it. “Oh, but _where_ should we leak it? I know! A conservative rag! That way, we can disavow any connection to it, and our true believers will buy that we had nothing to do with it!” ::glancing up at thread:: “See?!” ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2007, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-clinton-slinging-mud-at-obama-and-blaming-it-on-the-right-wing-conspiracy/389024/28 "2007-01-23T04:32:42Z")
[QUOTE=Frank] Of course not, but what do they gain from such an easily exposed lie? [/QUOTE] They crank up a meme. Memes survive whether they are true or not. Memes float around the internet in glurgey emails. Few bother to look up whether they are true. “Hey Gladys, it says here that Al Gore claims he invented the internet! The nerve of that guy!” ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2007, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-clinton-slinging-mud-at-obama-and-blaming-it-on-the-right-wing-conspiracy/389024/29 "2007-01-23T04:34:38Z")
[QUOTE=spoke-] They crank up a meme. Memes survive whether they are true or not. Memes float around the internet in glurgey emails. Few bother to look up whether they are true. “Hey Gladys, it says here that Al Gore claims he invented the internet! The nerve of that guy!” [/QUOTE] And which side spread _that_ little meme again? ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2007, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-clinton-slinging-mud-at-obama-and-blaming-it-on-the-right-wing-conspiracy/389024/30 "2007-01-23T04:36:13Z")
[QUOTE=Czarcasm] And which side spread _that_ little meme again? [/QUOTE] Apparently, _Clinton_’s. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2007, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-clinton-slinging-mud-at-obama-and-blaming-it-on-the-right-wing-conspiracy/389024/31 "2007-01-23T04:36:49Z")
[QUOTE=spoke-] They crank up a meme. Memes survive whether they are true or not. Memes float around the internet in glurgey emails. Few bother to look up whether they are true. [/QUOTE] And that’s true, so: given that there is a meme floating around that Obama has been indoctrinated by strict Islam, and there is a separate meme floating around that this is a vicious lie from the Clinton camp; who gains? ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2007, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-clinton-slinging-mud-at-obama-and-blaming-it-on-the-right-wing-conspiracy/389024/32 "2007-01-23T04:37:38Z")
Edwards! That _bastard_! ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2007, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-clinton-slinging-mud-at-obama-and-blaming-it-on-the-right-wing-conspiracy/389024/33 "2007-01-23T04:38:37Z")
[QUOTE=spoke-] Edwards! That _bastard_! [/QUOTE] 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2007, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-clinton-slinging-mud-at-obama-and-blaming-it-on-the-right-wing-conspiracy/389024/34 "2007-01-23T04:46:00Z")
[QUOTE=spoke-] Eager? I am just reading what has been written. I’m not the one trying to explain anything away. 🙂 I can easily imagine Hillary’s people digging for this info. I can easily imagine them wanting to leak it. “Oh, but _where_ should we leak it? I know! A conservative rag! That way, we can disavow any connection to it, and our true believers will buy that we had nothing to do with it!” ::glancing up at thread:: “See?!” [/QUOTE] But there IS no info. Nothing has been dug up. Nothing has been leaked. The allegations are entirely fabricated. The connections to HRC come only from a dubious right wing rag and are highly weaseled even at that. Hillary would have nothing to gain from “leaking” information which could be so easily and quickly shown to be false. All it could do is backfire on her. This whole thing looks like a transparent attempt to swiftboat Obama (who clearly scares the shit out of the right) and then throw a bloody glove into Hillary’s backyard. It’s already working like a charm on the dittoheads and freepers but Hillary was never going to get those votes anyway. ---
**Author:** ![AtomicDog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ac91a4/32.png) [@AtomicDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AtomicDog)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2007, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-clinton-slinging-mud-at-obama-and-blaming-it-on-the-right-wing-conspiracy/389024/35 "2007-01-23T04:48:22Z")
So where’s the _evidence_ that Hillary had something to do with it? I don’t see any. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2007, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-clinton-slinging-mud-at-obama-and-blaming-it-on-the-right-wing-conspiracy/389024/36 "2007-01-23T04:49:27Z")
After reading the _Insight_ article, I’m compelled to mention that I find it so ridiculously sloppy that I frankly couldn’t care less who originated it. This article has about as much verifiable data in it as your average _Weekly World News_ UFO report. Let me get this straight: the persons who supposedly brought this to the publication’s attention are never identified by name, are vaguely referred to as being in HRC’s “camp” (whatever that is) without a hint of evidence that this might actually be so, and there is no indication whatever that HRC has anything to do with this other than happening to be the person whose “camp” these unknown people supposedly belong to. Not to mention the deep silliness of what the article seems to be trying to suggest: that due to the possibility that Obama may have attended an Indonesian madrassa for parts of four years before he was ten years old, he is some sort of sleeper agent in a plot to surreptitiously put a muslim fundmentalist Manchurian Candidate in the White House. Give me a name of someone willing to back up this accusation on the record; better yet, since the article claims that a background investigation has been conducted and vetted for accuracy, give me some kind, any kind of documented evidence that Obama is a practicing muslim and has deliberately hidden this fact, and then maybe I’ll pay some attention to this story. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2007, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-clinton-slinging-mud-at-obama-and-blaming-it-on-the-right-wing-conspiracy/389024/37 "2007-01-23T04:51:06Z")
[QUOTE=AtomicDog] So where’s the _evidence_ that Hillary had something to do with it? I don’t see any. [/QUOTE] What evidence would you expect to see, beyond the attribution in the article? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2007, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-clinton-slinging-mud-at-obama-and-blaming-it-on-the-right-wing-conspiracy/389024/38 "2007-01-23T04:56:23Z")
[QUOTE=spoke-] Apparently, _Clinton_’s. [/QUOTE] Apparently _not_. Google the phrase “Gore claims he invented the Internet” and the name “Dick Armey” pops up all over the place. That would be, of course, Republican House Majority Leader Dick Armey. If you want to learn more about the real history of that meme, here’s a [pdf.](http://www.igs.berkeley.edu/research_programs/ppt/papers/Gore412.pdf) ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2007, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-clinton-slinging-mud-at-obama-and-blaming-it-on-the-right-wing-conspiracy/389024/39 "2007-01-23T04:58:35Z")
So I suppose you’re going to suggest that Lesbian Pagans for Satan is _not_ part of the “Clinton camp”? Well, then, prove it! ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2007, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-clinton-slinging-mud-at-obama-and-blaming-it-on-the-right-wing-conspiracy/389024/40 "2007-01-23T05:00:51Z")
As always, the Internet would not be what it is today without Al Gore’s support. That is, in fact, reasonably accurate and attested to by none less than Vince Cerf. > **[Inventing the Internet. Did Al Gore Invent the Internet?](https://www.perkel.com/politics/gore/internet.htm)** > > Bush claims Al Gore said he invented the internet. Here's the story and the real Al Gore quote and how Al Gore really is responsible for much of what the Internet is today. > [@](#): > > Gore said, “During my service in the United States Congress, I took the initiative in creating the Internet.” > Vincent Cerf, a senior vice president with MCI Worldcom who’s been called the Father of the Internet, “The Internet would not be where it is in the United States without the strong support given to it and related research areas by the Vice President in his current role and in his earlier role as Senator.” > The inventor of the Mosaic Browser, Marc Andreesen, credits Gore with making his work possible. He received a federal grant through Gore’s High Performance Computing Act. The University of Pennsylvania’s Dave Ferber says that without Gore the Internet “would not be where it is today.” Personal pet peeve, that. Nah, way too early for Hillary to dump that, especially if she could get caught. Six-seven months from now, maybe. But she fights tougher, smarter, and WAY nastier than that. I expect her to chew these people up if they press. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-clinton-slinging-mud-at-obama-and-blaming-it-on-the-right-wing-conspiracy/389024.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-clinton-slinging-mud-at-obama-and-blaming-it-on-the-right-wing-conspiracy/389024.md?page=3)