# Is Clinton slinging mud at Obama (and blaming it on the right-wing conspiracy)? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 23, 2007, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-clinton-slinging-mud-at-obama-and-blaming-it-on-the-right-wing-conspiracy/389024 "2007-01-23T00:59:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2007, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-clinton-slinging-mud-at-obama-and-blaming-it-on-the-right-wing-conspiracy/389024/41 "2007-01-23T05:03:18Z")
From the “Obama forms a Presidential Exploratory …” thread … **spoke** had predicted dirty tricks to be played and **Shayna** had found this early education and heritage distortion already out there in the Right Wing blogosphere. [My reaction then](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8160854&postcount=20) > [@](#): > > Of course there will be attempts to Swiftboat him. There will be attempts to Swiftboat any one who runs. The earlier they come the better. But if those are samples of what they’ll bring then Obama hasn’t much to worry about. His baggage seems to be more of the carry-on variety (and less than 3 oz of fluid to boot) … HRC has a steamer trunk. > > In any case the issue is how a candidate deals with such attacks and if a candidate is out there defining themselves before the other side gets to define you by attack and reaction. Obama will be out there early defining himself. He has the media presence to respond effectively as well. Of course this was an attempt by some right-wing hack at a two-for. The only source is a moonie rag with no citation for either the actual allegation or for the association with HRC. Immediately played out on Fox as “madrassa-gate” 🙂 Nah. HRC’s henchmen are better/slicker than this. When they smear there will be no prints and no witnesses. Too sloppy, too obvious, too easy to disprove, too early in the game. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2007, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-clinton-slinging-mud-at-obama-and-blaming-it-on-the-right-wing-conspiracy/389024/42 "2007-01-23T05:36:09Z")
[QUOTE=spoke-] What evidence would you expect to see, beyond the attribution in the article? 😕 [/QUOTE] When a publication cites unattributed sources, then the credibility of the story is only as good as the publication itself. Some publications have more credibility than others. The NY Times or the Washington Post can usually get away with it because the credibility of their actual news reporting (editorial stances aside) has been reasonably established over a period of decades. When it’s a fish wrap factory like Insight…not so much. In short, I don’t believe them. Their word isn’t good enough. I need something more. For the record, if it ever is actually proven that the HRC camp was behind this, I will lose all respect I ever had for Senator Clinton and I will not vote for her if she gets the nomination. I really don’t expect that to happen, though. If she were going to do this, I think she’d pick something better than a birdcage liner like Insight as her dump sight. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2007, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-clinton-slinging-mud-at-obama-and-blaming-it-on-the-right-wing-conspiracy/389024/43 "2007-01-23T05:57:34Z")
Well, spoke, I’m sure you’d believe a report that the Clintons are psychopathic communist homosexuals whose only goal in life is to take over the nation so they can drink enough innocent Christian blood to summon their dark lord to begin his reign. But have you ever heard anyone accuse Bill and Hill of being idiots? The party line is they’re political masterminds remember? So if they were going to be stupid enough to alienate the black core constituency that they’re going to need to win the election, why would they pass the rumors on to the most conservative media outlets in the country? The very outlets that would be most guaranteed to out their dirty tricks? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2007, 6:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-clinton-slinging-mud-at-obama-and-blaming-it-on-the-right-wing-conspiracy/389024/44 "2007-01-23T06:01:39Z")
Isn’t every single Senator, and in fact every single inhabitant of New York, an “associate” of Ms. Clinton? I can well believe that the source for this “information” was an “associate” of Clinton’s. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2007, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-clinton-slinging-mud-at-obama-and-blaming-it-on-the-right-wing-conspiracy/389024/45 "2007-01-23T13:38:02Z")
[QUOTE=spoke-] Apparently, _Clinton_’s. [/QUOTE] Cite? _Every time_ I’ve ever seen it, it’s been cited by somebody who makes Dick Cheney look like a radical. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2007, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-clinton-slinging-mud-at-obama-and-blaming-it-on-the-right-wing-conspiracy/389024/46 "2007-01-23T13:46:29Z")
No, the Right Wingers are using this worthless story to sling mud at Obama & Clinton. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2007, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-clinton-slinging-mud-at-obama-and-blaming-it-on-the-right-wing-conspiracy/389024/47 "2007-01-23T13:49:35Z")
[QUOTE=spoke-] Edwards! That _bastard_! [/QUOTE] Sorry. Wallace R. Edwards married Catharine Wade in 1952; their son Johnny was born in June the next year. How fast is your boat, **spoke-**? ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2007, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-clinton-slinging-mud-at-obama-and-blaming-it-on-the-right-wing-conspiracy/389024/48 "2007-01-23T13:53:54Z")
Perhaps Karl Rove is training up someone… “Let’s start with an easy one - go for two leading Democrats at once. Remember it’s the slur that matters, not the facts.” ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2007, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-clinton-slinging-mud-at-obama-and-blaming-it-on-the-right-wing-conspiracy/389024/49 "2007-01-23T14:25:15Z")
[QUOTE=elucidator] So I suppose you’re going to suggest that Lesbian Pagans for Satan is _not_ part of the “Clinton camp”? Well, then, prove it! [/QUOTE] Oh, so you believe their denials of involvement with Lesbian Pagans for Satan? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2007, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-clinton-slinging-mud-at-obama-and-blaming-it-on-the-right-wing-conspiracy/389024/50 "2007-01-23T14:55:39Z")
[QUOTE=DSeid] Oh, so you believe their denials of involvement with Lesbian Pagans for Satan? 🙂 [/QUOTE] I think we can all agree that Bill would be the first in line to join such a club…sadly, I don’t think they exist. I’ve searched…extensively. -Joe, :mad: ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2007, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-clinton-slinging-mud-at-obama-and-blaming-it-on-the-right-wing-conspiracy/389024/51 "2007-01-23T16:04:57Z")
[QUOTE=spoke-] I can easily imagine Hillary’s people digging for this info. I can easily imagine them wanting to leak it. [/QUOTE] This kind of credulity in the absence of any evidence is why we find your theories so amusing. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2007, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-clinton-slinging-mud-at-obama-and-blaming-it-on-the-right-wing-conspiracy/389024/52 "2007-01-23T17:10:25Z")
[QUOTE=Little Nemo] Well, spoke, I’m sure you’d believe a report that the Clintons are psychopathic communist homosexuals whose only goal in life is to take over the nation so they can drink enough innocent Christian blood to summon their dark lord to begin his reign. [/QUOTE] Cute, but you got the wrong guy. I’m a big fan of the Clintons. (Well, Bill more than Hillary.) I just think it is naive to underestimate their ruthlessness. Your post betrays an interesting mindset. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2007, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-clinton-slinging-mud-at-obama-and-blaming-it-on-the-right-wing-conspiracy/389024/53 "2007-01-23T17:18:29Z")
[QUOTE=Fear Itself] This kind of credulity in the absence of any evidence is why we find your theories so amusing. [/QUOTE] My “theories”? My “theory” in this case is that the source of the story is the one attributed by its author. That one’s really _out_ there, I know… ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2007, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-clinton-slinging-mud-at-obama-and-blaming-it-on-the-right-wing-conspiracy/389024/54 "2007-01-23T17:31:49Z")
> [@spoke-](#): > > Edwards! That bastard! You seem to be playing this as a joke, but my first thought when I saw you pimping this story was, “Oh yeah, he’s the guy for whom John Edwards was the only candidate there could be in 2004.” It’s a damn shame you would feel compelled to muck about in such a Rovian pigslop just to get in early on the “John Edwards is just the greatest. candidate. ever!” campaign. The beauty of such things is that, despite being debunked, this little piece of shit will nevertheless reinforce _both_ the Obama/Osama-Hussein-Muslim madrassa linkage and the idea that Hillary Clinton is a cold manipulative backstabber. Nice job doing your part, **spoke-**. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2007, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-clinton-slinging-mud-at-obama-and-blaming-it-on-the-right-wing-conspiracy/389024/55 "2007-01-23T17:42:30Z")
Nope. Try again. I said [in this post](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8158630&postcount=4) that I would support Obama enthusiastically. In fact, that’s why it angered me that the Clinton camp might be engaging in dirty tricks against him. As I said in that other thread, I fear Obama is going to get “Deaned,” and that’s what seems to me to be happening. But that’s a nice little conspiracy theory _you’ve_ got there, **Hentor**. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2007, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-clinton-slinging-mud-at-obama-and-blaming-it-on-the-right-wing-conspiracy/389024/56 "2007-01-23T18:06:49Z")
[QUOTE=spoke-] Nope. Try again. I said [in this post](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8158630&postcount=4) that I would support Obama enthusiastically. In fact, that’s why it angered me that the Clinton camp might be engaging in dirty tricks against him. As I said in that other thread, I fear Obama is going to get “Deaned,” and that’s what seems to me to be happening. But that’s a nice little conspiracy theory _you’ve_ got there, **Hentor**. [/QUOTE] A conspiracy of one, eh? Well, I stand corrected. You’re no longer an Edwards man, you’re an Obama man. Doesn’t mean you weren’t trying to fling shit at Clinton by riffing off a Rovian style smear effort in order to make your preferred candidate look better. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2007, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-clinton-slinging-mud-at-obama-and-blaming-it-on-the-right-wing-conspiracy/389024/57 "2007-01-23T18:34:00Z")
[QUOTE=spoke-] As I said in that other thread, I fear Obama is going to get “Deaned,” . . . [/QUOTE] 😕 ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2007, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-clinton-slinging-mud-at-obama-and-blaming-it-on-the-right-wing-conspiracy/389024/58 "2007-01-23T18:35:23Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] This whole thing looks like a transparent attempt to swiftboat Obama (who clearly scares the shit out of the right) . . . [/QUOTE] What makes you think he scares the shit out of the right? ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2007, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-clinton-slinging-mud-at-obama-and-blaming-it-on-the-right-wing-conspiracy/389024/59 "2007-01-23T18:45:59Z")
[QUOTE=spoke-] OK, so no one believes that the Clinton camp is the source of this mud-slinging? They are above that sort of thing, I suppose? [/QUOTE] You suppose correctly. Hillary Clinton has run two Senate campaigns and her husband ran many campaigns before that. While no one would claim they were ethically flawless, they never told lies designed to exploit bigotry for political advantage. That tactic is exclusive to the Republicans. For instance: - Accusing the Clinton Administration of collaborating with Chinese agents. - Anonymous phone calls during the 2000 Republican primary claiming that John McCain had an illegitimate black child. - and many other examples. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2007, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-clinton-slinging-mud-at-obama-and-blaming-it-on-the-right-wing-conspiracy/389024/60 "2007-01-23T18:54:37Z")
[QUOTE=Hentor the Barbarian] A conspiracy of one, eh? Well, I stand corrected. You’re no longer an Edwards man, you’re an Obama man. Doesn’t mean you weren’t trying to fling shit at Clinton by riffing off a Rovian style smear effort in order to make your preferred candidate look better. [/QUOTE] Or…maybe the Clintons were actually the source of this rumor, in which case they fully deserve to catch shit. And speaking of conspiracy theories, the conspiracy theorists in _this_ thread are the ones saying “Things are not as they seem!” In other words, the ones with the Hillary Clinton buttons on their lapels. Like yourself. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-clinton-slinging-mud-at-obama-and-blaming-it-on-the-right-wing-conspiracy/389024.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-clinton-slinging-mud-at-obama-and-blaming-it-on-the-right-wing-conspiracy/389024.md?page=4)