# Is Cockney still spoken? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 4, 2003, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cockney-still-spoken/179600 "2003-06-04T14:27:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![everton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ecb155/32.png) [@everton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/everton)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2003, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cockney-still-spoken/179600/21 "2003-06-04T15:50:48Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by astorian \* > \*\*Slight hijack: in the early 1960’s, when MGM was about to make the film version of “My Fair Lady,” the studio chiefs weren’t sold on Rex Harrison as the star. He was respected as a good actor, but wasn’t regarded as a bankable star. So, legend has it, they contacted Cary Grant (who was now semi-retired, and would soon stop making movies altogether), and offered him the role. > > Legend has it that Grant replied with amusement, “What you don’t seem to understand is, I have the very accent Eliza Doolittle is supposed to be trying to get rid of!” \*\* I’ve heard that story too, but it always sounded like Grant making an excuse to avoid doing the movie. He may not have had the ideal plum-in-mouth posh voice Higgins required, but he wasn’t a cockney and certainly didn’t sound like one. Even more ironic is that Harrison was from Liverpool\* like me, even though you’d never guess it from his voice. \*European Capital of Culture 2008, my fellow Britishers. Book those opera tickets now to avoid disappointment. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2003, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cockney-still-spoken/179600/22 "2003-06-04T16:29:11Z")
OK, another question. Is the constable “What’s all this then?” accent they put on in Monty Python suposed to be a cockney accent? Or a London accent? Or a cop accent? Or something completely different? ---
**Author:** ![MC\_Master\_of\_Ceremonies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/bb73d2/32.png) [@MC\_Master\_of\_Ceremonies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MC_Master_of_Ceremonies)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2003, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cockney-still-spoken/179600/23 "2003-06-04T16:32:45Z")
It’s a London police accent. ---
**Author:** ![everton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ecb155/32.png) [@everton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/everton)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2003, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cockney-still-spoken/179600/24 "2003-06-04T16:59:36Z")
No, a _comedy_ police accent. Seriously, have you ever been spoken to like that by a copper in London or anywhere else? ---
**Author:** ![raygirvan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ac91a4/32.png) [@raygirvan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raygirvan)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2003, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cockney-still-spoken/179600/25 "2003-06-04T17:07:02Z")
- Grant … wasn’t a cockney and certainly didn’t sound like one.\* He wouldn’t, being from Bristol. His accent (well-caricatured by Tony Curtis in “Some like it Hot”) was a peculiar Westcountry / RP / American hybrid. ---
**Author:** ![ouisey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/9fc29f/32.png) [@ouisey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ouisey)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2003, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cockney-still-spoken/179600/26 "2003-06-04T18:25:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by WILLASS \* > \*\*With regard to films with cockneys in after 1970 i’d say there is an overabundance of films with mockney geezers in them that have come out in recent years - ‘Lock Stock and Two Smoking Barrels’ being one (its set in South London so are they Cockney?) and ‘ID’ being the better of the many, many London gangster films to come out since 1970. \*\* Also, _To Sir, With Love_. But I think it was made in the 60’s. And what about _Educating Rita_? ---
**Author:** ![everton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ecb155/32.png) [@everton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/everton)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2003, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cockney-still-spoken/179600/27 "2003-06-04T18:41:58Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ouisey \* > \*\*Also, _To Sir, With Love_. But I think it was made in the 60’s. And what about _Educating Rita_? \*\* [_To Sir, With Love_](http://us.imdb.com/Title?0062376) was made in 1967. It was set in East London and so the accents were attempting to be cockney, but of the cast list I only recognise Adrienne Posta as being from that neck of the woods – all the others were faking with variable degrees of success. [_Educating Rita_](http://us.imdb.com/Title?0085478) – no chance I’m afraid. Julie Walters is a Birmingham actress attempting a Liverpool accent and Michael Caine a cockney attempting Oxbridge RP, neither hitting the mark to my ears. ---
**Author:** ![ouisey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/9fc29f/32.png) [@ouisey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ouisey)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2003, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cockney-still-spoken/179600/28 "2003-06-04T19:04:08Z")
I was afraid I’d be way off there. Wot, you mean Lulu’s not a cockney?? But then again, I grew up near Newmarket. ---
**Author:** ![TheLoadedDog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/35a633/32.png) [@TheLoadedDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheLoadedDog)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2003, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cockney-still-spoken/179600/29 "2003-06-05T00:00:05Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by everton \* > \*\*No, a _comedy_ police accent. Seriously, have you ever been spoken to like that by a copper in London or anywhere else? \*\* So do modern London coppers say, “Roito sunshine! You’re nicked!”, or is that just _The Bill_? ---
**Author:** ![everton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ecb155/32.png) [@everton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/everton)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2003, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cockney-still-spoken/179600/30 "2003-06-05T00:30:04Z")
Well I’ve never been arrested, so I couldn’t say for sure. I suspect they just make whatever incoherent grunts they can as their blows rain down on your head ;). ---
**Author:** ![Crusoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/49beb7/32.png) [@Crusoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crusoe)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2003, 10:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cockney-still-spoken/179600/31 "2003-06-05T10:45:18Z")
I was witness to a GBH in north London last Saturday night. The policeman that I spoke to was from Liverpool. ---
**Author:** ![everton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ecb155/32.png) [@everton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/everton)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2003, 11:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cockney-still-spoken/179600/32 "2003-06-05T11:23:25Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Crusoe \* > \*\*I was witness to a GBH in north London last Saturday night. The policeman that I spoke to was from Liverpool. \*\* Then he _definitely_ didn’t say “Roito sunshine! You’re nicked!” did he? That’s a hell of a commute he’s got too ;). ---
**Author:** ![China\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@China\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/China_Guy)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2003, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cockney-still-spoken/179600/33 "2003-06-05T13:34:32Z")
[hijack]Is Muswell Hills cockney? Trying to understand one of Kink’s Davies brothers is pretty dang tough. What would you lable the Who’s Quadrophrenia movie accent that Jimmy and the rest of the Mods were using? I wish they had subtitled the beginning of the at movie…[/hijack] ---
**Author:** ![MSU\_1978](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac8455/32.png) [@MSU\_1978](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MSU_1978)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2003, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cockney-still-spoken/179600/34 "2003-06-05T13:37:53Z")
How about Miss Brahms and Mr. Harmon from Are You Being Served? Were they real Cockneys? ---
**Author:** ![chiefgnome](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@chiefgnome](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chiefgnome)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2003, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cockney-still-spoken/179600/35 "2003-06-05T13:48:39Z")
Miss Brahms certainly wasn’t. She was played by Wendy Richard, better known as Pauline Fowler in Eastenders, and was born in Middlesborough, up North. The accent she portrayed in Are You Being Served was a cockney one though. ---
**Author:** ![everton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ecb155/32.png) [@everton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/everton)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2003, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cockney-still-spoken/179600/36 "2003-06-05T14:00:59Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by China Guy \* > \*\*[hijack]Is Muswell Hills cockney? Trying to understand one of Kink’s Davies brothers is pretty dang tough. > > What would you lable the Who’s Quadrophrenia movie accent that Jimmy and the rest of the Mods were using? I wish they had subtitled the beginning of the at movie…[/hijack] \*\* Muswell Hill is not within the sound of Bow bells, but I wouldn’t be able to tell the difference between someone raised there and someone raised in Stepney or Bethnal Green. I can’t find out exactly where Phil Daniels (Jimmy in [_Quadrophenia_](http://us.imdb.com/Title?0079766)) was born, but I suspect somewhere in inner west London like Hammersmith. Again that’s not in the official zone, but his accent would be indistinguishable from a true cockney’s. Unbelieveably, Wendy Richard (Miss Brahms) was born in Middlesbrough, but her normal speaking voice indicates she has lived in London most of her life. Even in AYBS, her accent isn’t really cockney though, just an attempt at it. Arthur English (Mr. Harman) was born in Aldershot, Hampshire, so he’s not a true cockney either, although you could’ve fooled me. ---
**Author:** ![eburacum45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eburacum45/32/8690_2.png) [@eburacum45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eburacum45)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2003, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cockney-still-spoken/179600/37 "2003-06-05T14:43:19Z")
The most common accent in London and Essex these days is Estuary English- a cross between cockney and Recieved Pronunciation, with afew other influences thrown in. To tell the difference, a Cockney will still say “wa’er” for water, with a glottal stop before the vowel- while an EE speaker will pronounce the t sound in water, but say “Ga’wick” for Gatwick and so on… Cockney is perceived as an uneducated accent, so people avoid it, while the milder form of Estuary English is percieved as classless. [http://www.phon.ucl.ac.uk/home/estuary/rosew.htm](http://www.phon.ucl.ac.uk/home/estuary/rosew.htm) [http://www.ic.arizona.edu/~lsp/EstuaryEnglish.html](http://www.ic.arizona.edu/~lsp/EstuaryEnglish.html) ---
**Author:** ![paulberserker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@paulberserker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/paulberserker)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2003, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cockney-still-spoken/179600/38 "2003-06-05T14:46:35Z")
with regards to Rex Harrison being replaced by Cary Grant in My Fair Lady, Rex was always the actor they wanted for the part. the fact he kept changing his mind and arguing about who wrote the songs and his performannce led them to contact christopher plummer of all people to be the doctor. its all in ‘just tell me when to cry’, the autobiography of richard fleischer, who directed the movie. as a northener from leeds living in london, i am constantly ridiculed by cockerneys and ‘estuary english’ speakers here. believe me, its still very much alive ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2003, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cockney-still-spoken/179600/39 "2003-06-05T15:46:45Z")
> [@](#): > > Get the Britney Spears in! > [@](#): > > go up the apples and pears for you > [@](#): > > You’re ‘avin’ a Turkish, mate > [@](#): > > I went out and sausaged a Gregory on me kidney punch > [@](#): > > When I get off the dog i’m going for a Brad So for those of us who are cockney-impaired, can someone translate? ---
**Author:** ![MC\_Master\_of\_Ceremonies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/bb73d2/32.png) [@MC\_Master\_of\_Ceremonies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MC_Master_of_Ceremonies)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2003, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cockney-still-spoken/179600/40 "2003-06-05T15:56:08Z")
1. Buy us some beers 2. Go up the stairs for you 3. you’re joking (you’re having a laugh) 4. ??? 5. When I get off the phone, I’m going to the toilet (going for a shit) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cockney-still-spoken/179600.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cockney-still-spoken/179600.md?page=3)