# Is Coerced Conversion to Buddhism Unknown to History? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 11, 2013, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-coerced-conversion-to-buddhism-unknown-to-history/655425 "2013-04-11T17:41:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![StusBlues](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@StusBlues](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StusBlues)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2013, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-coerced-conversion-to-buddhism-unknown-to-history/655425/1 "2013-04-11T17:41:24Z")
I’m reading What the Buddha Taught by Walpola Rahula. In his opening chapter, Dr. Rahula claims that “there is not a single example of persecution or the shedding of a drop of blood in converting people to Buddhism, or in its propagation during its long history of 2500 years.” Is this true, or was the Northwestern professor conveniently forgetting some problematic cases? I understand that we can discount Asoka, who only converted to Buddhism after completing his violent conquests, but are there other cases where mass adherence to Buddhism was obtained through less than gentle means? ---
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2013, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-coerced-conversion-to-buddhism-unknown-to-history/655425/2 "2013-04-11T18:51:54Z")
Burma has done a bit of it, according to some reports. I can’t find a great cite, but Wikipedia mentions it here: [Freedom of religion in Myanmar - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_religion_in_Burma#Forced_religious_conversion) ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2013, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-coerced-conversion-to-buddhism-unknown-to-history/655425/3 "2013-04-13T02:01:09Z")
Besides the current forced conversions in Burma, a lot of Southeast Asia had mandated mass conversions. The King of Burma or the King of Khmer or whoever would convert to Buddhism and say “Ok, this is a Buddhist country now. We’re all Buddhists.” After Tibet adopted Buddhism, the Kings and Dali Lamas did a lot to suppress the native religion. There was also a bunch of forced conversion between Buddhist sects. ---
**Author:** ![David\_H\_Singanas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ac8455/32.png) [@David\_H\_Singanas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_H_Singanas)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2013, 8:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-coerced-conversion-to-buddhism-unknown-to-history/655425/4 "2013-04-19T08:58:46Z")
Lord Buddha had followers and disciples. In other words, wherever he traveled he was followed and he was protected. Jesus and Mohammed knocked on doors, called press conferences, provided meals, preached in public and private venues, made extravagant prophesies. The Buddha made no threats or ultimatums against the opposition. He said you do not have to help others in order to fulfill “the law”. You need simply to NOT make the lives of others worse than what they already are. This is why no one has been killed for Buddha and no war has been fought for Buddha. The wars and the killings were done not by Buddha but by the power struggles among his successors. ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2013, 9:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-coerced-conversion-to-buddhism-unknown-to-history/655425/5 "2013-04-19T09:15:28Z")
> [@David\_H\_Singanas](#): > > Lord Buddha had followers and disciples. In other words, wherever he traveled he was > followed and he was protected. Jesus and Mohammed knocked on doors, called press > conferences, provided meals, preached in public and private venues, made extravagant > prophesies. I’m guessing the fact that Gautama spent his life up into adulthood as a pampered royal prince, whose father the King was still alive when he began preaching, may have had something to do with that. Only sons of carpenters and merchants must resort to such crass methods, no? ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2013, 9:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-coerced-conversion-to-buddhism-unknown-to-history/655425/6 "2013-04-19T09:21:01Z")
> [@David\_H\_Singanas](#): > > Lord Buddha had followers and disciples. In other words, wherever he traveled he was > followed and he was protected. Jesus and Mohammed knocked on doors, called press > conferences, provided meals, preached in public and private venues, made extravagant > prophesies. > The Buddha made no threats or ultimatums against the opposition. He said you do not > have to help others in order to fulfill “the law”. You need simply to NOT make the lives of > others worse than what they already are. This is why no one has been killed for Buddha > and no war has been fought for Buddha. The wars and the killings were done not by > Buddha but by the power struggles among his successors. Nice theory, friend; but too bad it doesn’t square with historical facts. Even today, there are people who are killing others for the simple reason that those others aren’t Buddhist. And, for the love of whatever you hold sacred, please treat the return/enter key more gently. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2013, 9:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-coerced-conversion-to-buddhism-unknown-to-history/655425/7 "2013-04-19T09:30:02Z")
[Altan Khan](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Altan_Khan) in concert with [Sonam Gyatso](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3rd_Dalai_Lama) appear to have taken a rather coercive approach to the conversion of the Mongols, with a fairly heavy-handed crackdown on [Shamanism](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongolian_shamanism). Not much mentioned in those articles, I should add. But other sources indicate that it was not an easy-going process. ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Panda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ee7513/32.png) [@Darth\_Panda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Panda)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2013, 11:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-coerced-conversion-to-buddhism-unknown-to-history/655425/8 "2013-04-19T11:30:13Z")
> [@David\_H\_Singanas](#): > > You need simply to NOT make the lives of > others worse than what they already are. This is why no one has been killed for Buddha > and no war has been fought for Buddha. The wars and the killings were done not by > Buddha but by the power struggles among his successors. Seriously, read a book. > [@](#): > > The Qinghai–Tibet War was a conflict which took place within the Sino-Tibetan War. The Dalai Lama wanted to expand the original conflict which was taking place between the Tibetan army and Liu Wenhui in Xikang, to attack Qinghai. Using a dispute over a monastery in Yushu in Qinghai as an excuse in 1932, the Tibetan army attacked. The Qinghai Muslim General Ma Bufang overran the Tibetan armies and recaptured several counties in Xikang province. Shiqu, Dengke, and other counties were seized from the Tibetans.[1][2][3] The Tibetans were pushed back to the other side of the Jinsha river.[4][5] > **[Qinghai–Tibet War](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qinghai%E2%80%93Tibet_War)** > >  Republic of China Army > The Qinghai–Tibet War or the Tsinghai–Tibet War was a conflict that took place during the Sino-Tibetan War. The 13th Dalai Lama wanted to expand the original conflict taking place between the Tibetan Army and Liu Wenhui (Sichuan clique) in Xikang, to attack Qinghai, a region northeast of Tibet. Using a dispute over a monastery in Yushu in Qinghai as an excuse in 1932, the Tibetan army attacked. Qinghai Muslim General Ma Bufang overran the Tibetan armies and recaptured sev... ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2013, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-coerced-conversion-to-buddhism-unknown-to-history/655425/9 "2013-04-20T02:58:44Z")
> [@Darth\_Panda](#): > > Seriously, read a book. Does anybody know of a good book that places Buddhism in an historical context? Incidentally, the 1974 book mentioned in the OP is a leading college textbook. Its forward appears to be wrong though. A history of religious coercion, with comparisons and contrasts, might be interesting as well. I would hypothesize that Islam would be worse than Christianity and both worse than Buddhism (after controlling for population), but there would be real problems of definition to consider. ---
**Author:** ![Condescending\_Robot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a183cd/32.png) [@Condescending\_Robot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Condescending_Robot)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2013, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-coerced-conversion-to-buddhism-unknown-to-history/655425/10 "2013-04-20T03:02:08Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > Incidentally, the 1974 book mentioned in the OP is a leading college textbook. Its forward appears to be wrong though. Religious studies is the only field of the humanities that uncritically accepts the truth of what its subjects claim. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2013, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-coerced-conversion-to-buddhism-unknown-to-history/655425/11 "2013-04-20T04:42:22Z")
> [@Condescending\_Robot](#): > > Religious studies is the only field of the humanities that uncritically accepts the truth of what its subjects claim. Here are two sources that show you are very wrong. [Wiki](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_studies): > [@](#): > > Religious studies is the academic field of multi-disciplinary, secular study of religious beliefs, behaviors, and institutions. It describes, compares, interprets, and explains religion, emphasizing systematic, historically based, and cross-cultural perspectives. & [University of California at Davis](http://admissions.ucdavis.edu/majors/major_view.cfm?major=lrst) > [@](#): > > The major in Religious Studies examines culture at its broadest and in terms of its core values, providing an opportunity to explore and analyze the written and oral traditions of many of the world’s religions, including Hinduism, Buddhism, Judaism, Christianity, Islam, and African religions. Students in the major aim to describe, compare, and interpret the beliefs and practices of various religious traditions and to understand the world in which those traditions emerged and thrive. They study how religion has shaped human behavior within cultures in matters such as family life, ideas of right and wrong, sexual roles and relations, relations between individuals and society, and artistic expression. Religious Studies is obviously not what you evidently think it is. ---
**Author:** ![Condescending\_Robot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a183cd/32.png) [@Condescending\_Robot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Condescending_Robot)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2013, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-coerced-conversion-to-buddhism-unknown-to-history/655425/12 "2013-04-20T05:05:43Z")
My opinion is based on university courses I took and textbooks I read, which portray all religions as true, valid, and good and any deviance from this as people somehow doing their own religion wrong. You may also wish to see the OP of this thread, a quote from a textbook which makes the ludicrous claim that no Buddhist has ever committed religious violence. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2013, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-coerced-conversion-to-buddhism-unknown-to-history/655425/13 "2013-04-20T05:14:21Z")
Religious Studies is an academic excercise in observing and explaining something related to cultures. It is not, as you are now pretending, a Catechism. Of course the claim that no Buddhist has ever committed religious violence is an asinine claim as it is patently false. It does not change the fact that there is a difference between Religious Studies and Catechisms. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2013, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-coerced-conversion-to-buddhism-unknown-to-history/655425/14 "2013-04-20T06:04:42Z")
> [@Condescending\_Robot](#): > > My opinion is based on university courses I took and textbooks I read, which portray all religions as true, valid, and good and any deviance from this as people somehow doing their own religion wrong. My exposure to my College’s department of Religion is not consistent with this characterization. The stance of the departed poster Diogenes the Cynic, who had a degree in the subject, was not compatible with your statement, though it matched my impression on the matter. I’ll paraphrase a classmate of mine: “The religion department is full of freaking atheists!!!” I’m not saying she was correct though. ---
**Author:** ![David\_H\_Singanas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ac8455/32.png) [@David\_H\_Singanas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_H_Singanas)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2013, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-coerced-conversion-to-buddhism-unknown-to-history/655425/15 "2013-04-22T03:53:44Z")
> [@Condescending\_Robot](#): > > My opinion is based on university courses I took and textbooks I read, which portray all religions as true, valid, and good and any deviance from this as people somehow doing their own religion wrong. You may also wish to see the OP of this thread, a quote from a textbook which makes the ludicrous claim that no Buddhist has ever committed religious violence. I suggest that you take with a grain of salt any statements from someone who quotes WIKIPEDIA. The best sources are BRITANNICA, WORLD BOOK, and ENCARTA. Also, I would like for all those experts on Buddhism to make a list of the wars and battles that were fought for Lord Buddha. Cite sources, please. I don’t want a list of wars fought for state power among rulers. I want to know who has been killed or tortured in the name of Dharma. Lord Buddha was all about self-discovery and self-purification and had nothing to do with forcing others to convert. He even admitted that his way was not the only way to nothingness. ---
**Author:** ![Condescending\_Robot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a183cd/32.png) [@Condescending\_Robot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Condescending_Robot)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2013, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-coerced-conversion-to-buddhism-unknown-to-history/655425/16 "2013-04-22T04:02:05Z")
Well, if nothing else, we’ve learned that Buddhists can be just as delusional in their proselytizations as Christians. ---
**Author:** ![Condescending\_Robot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a183cd/32.png) [@Condescending\_Robot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Condescending_Robot)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2013, 9:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-coerced-conversion-to-buddhism-unknown-to-history/655425/17 "2013-04-22T09:01:21Z")
[http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/rights-group-myanmar-unrest-ethnic-cleansing-19012694#.UXT8GbWG18E](http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/rights-group-myanmar-unrest-ethnic-cleansing-19012694#.UXT8GbWG18E) > [@](#): > > A leading international rights group on Monday accused authorities in Myanmar, including Buddhist monks, of fomenting an organized campaign of ethnic cleansing against the country’s Rohingya Muslim minority that killed hundreds of people and forced 125,000 from their homes. This is happening right now. Let me guess, these are not the Real Buddhists, who are no doubt off in hiding with the Real Christians, the Real Muslims, the Real Communists, and so forth? ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2013, 10:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-coerced-conversion-to-buddhism-unknown-to-history/655425/18 "2013-04-22T10:19:48Z")
Lord Buddha was a true Scotsman. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2013, 10:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-coerced-conversion-to-buddhism-unknown-to-history/655425/19 "2013-04-22T10:46:29Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > Nice theory, friend; but too bad it doesn’t square with historical facts. Even today, there are people who are killing others for the simple reason that those others aren’t Buddhist. Who is killing people today for the simple reason that those others aren’t Buddhist? (Assuming you really did mean “simple reason”, and not a complex reason such as a broader power struggle between groups that contain Buddhists and groups that don’t, in which case it’s not so simple). ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2013, 11:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-coerced-conversion-to-buddhism-unknown-to-history/655425/21 "2013-04-22T11:07:06Z")
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