# Is Coerced Conversion to Buddhism Unknown to History? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 11, 2013, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-coerced-conversion-to-buddhism-unknown-to-history/655425 "2013-04-11T17:41:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2013, 11:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-coerced-conversion-to-buddhism-unknown-to-history/655425/22 "2013-04-22T11:43:10Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > and not a complex reason such as a broader power struggle between groups that contain Buddhists and groups that don’t . . . That argument can be applied to just about any ostensibly religious conflict in history, including the Crusades. Religion has never been more than a fig leaf for economically and politically motivated rebellion, land grabs and/or scramble for new markets. Given the centralized and authoritarian nature of East Asian governments, Buddhism may not have been needed as a tool as often for those particular types of conflicts, but it has provided excellent leverage for existing state organizations to further oppress the masses. What better way to keep the poor in their place, then to guilt trip them into believing they must have done something to deserve it in a “past life”? ---
**Author:** ![StusBlues](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@StusBlues](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StusBlues)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2013, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-coerced-conversion-to-buddhism-unknown-to-history/655425/23 "2013-04-22T15:09:23Z")
> [@Koxinga](#): > > Lord Buddha was a true Scotsman. Good one. Thanks for all the contributions here. I think we can say that Buddhism has not been as violent, historically, as Islam or Christianity, but it’s had its moments, and Rahula was naive suggesting otherwise. On the uncritical acceptance of religion in formal religious studies: honestly, the study of religion is, if anything, more contentious than most other fields engaged with the same rigor. Some undergraduate survey courses may be soft-pedaled in the extreme, but that is a rhetorical device to get young students interested and avoid offending folks who will not listen if their hackles are up. Once one gets beyond the survey level (and Rahula’s book absolutely is a survey), those folks can get vicious. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2013, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-coerced-conversion-to-buddhism-unknown-to-history/655425/24 "2013-04-22T22:59:38Z")
> [@Koxinga](#): > > That argument can be applied to just about any ostensibly religious conflict in history, including the Crusades. Religion has never been more than a fig leaf for economically and politically motivated rebellion, land grabs and/or scramble for new markets. So in other words, nobody is being killed for the simple reason that they’re not Buddhist. If it’s happening, then it’s more complex than that. Thanks, that answers the question. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2013, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-coerced-conversion-to-buddhism-unknown-to-history/655425/25 "2013-04-22T23:09:43Z")
> [@David\_H\_Singanas](#): > > The wars and the killings were done not by > Buddha but by the power struggles among his successors. It usually seems to work out that way, doesn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2013, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-coerced-conversion-to-buddhism-unknown-to-history/655425/26 "2013-04-22T23:10:55Z")
> [@Koxinga](#): > > Lord Buddha was a true Scotsman. The Scotsman who can be described is not the true Scotsman. ---
**Author:** ![Condescending\_Robot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a183cd/32.png) [@Condescending\_Robot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Condescending_Robot)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2013, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-coerced-conversion-to-buddhism-unknown-to-history/655425/27 "2013-04-22T23:34:36Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > So in other words, nobody is being killed for the simple reason that they’re not Buddhist. Except the 125,000 Muslims who are. But hey, given that existence is suffering and the ultimate goal of life is a form of death that completely negates your being, they’re really doing them a favor, right? ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2013, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-coerced-conversion-to-buddhism-unknown-to-history/655425/28 "2013-04-23T00:37:58Z")
> [@Condescending\_Robot](#): > > Except the 125,000 Muslims who are. Which ones? Is anyone being forced to convert at swordpoint with their lives being spared if they convert? Is anyone’s life being spared because they mouthed a conversion? Is anyone quoting scripture claiming that Buddha says it’s okay to kill people? I’m just trying to understand here. Because if it isn’t, these are just two groups of people who found reasons to kill each other as people often do, and religion is just another group marker like skin color or language or whatever. It has nothing to do with the actual beliefs and everything to do with how tribalism overcomes those beliefs. > [@](#): > > But hey, given that existence is suffering and the ultimate goal of life is a form of death that completely negates your being, they’re really doing them a favor, right? But hey, argue like you’re not 12 years old. Do you have a cite for anyone using Buddha’s teachings to justify killing someone, or is it more likely that you just kind of fabricated out of desperation? ---
**Author:** ![Condescending\_Robot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a183cd/32.png) [@Condescending\_Robot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Condescending_Robot)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2013, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-coerced-conversion-to-buddhism-unknown-to-history/655425/29 "2013-04-23T00:43:30Z")
Sorry about your morally abhorrent, anti-life beliefs and the stark light being thrown on them by your co-religionists engineering a genocide. Try not to let the cognitive dissonance give you too much of a migraine. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2013, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-coerced-conversion-to-buddhism-unknown-to-history/655425/30 "2013-04-23T00:47:31Z")
> [@Condescending\_Robot](#): > > Sorry about your morally abhorrent, anti-life beliefs and the stark light being thrown on them by your co-religionists engineering a genocide. Try not to let the cognitive dissonance give you too much of a migraine. Sorry you were unable to find any cites to support yourself, but I give you a half point for frothing spittle. Better luck next thread. ---
**Author:** ![Condescending\_Robot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a183cd/32.png) [@Condescending\_Robot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Condescending_Robot)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2013, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-coerced-conversion-to-buddhism-unknown-to-history/655425/31 "2013-04-23T01:16:22Z")
> **[ABC News – Breaking News, Latest News and Videos](https://abcnews.go.com/International/)** > > Get the latest international news and world events from Asia, Europe, the Middle East, and more. See world news photos and videos at ABCNews.com > [@](#): > > A leading international rights group on Monday accused authorities in Myanmar, including Buddhist monks, of fomenting an organized campaign of ethnic cleansing against the country’s Rohingya Muslim minority that killed hundreds of people and forced 125,000 from their homes. Now I know you are engaging in awesome religious logic of “we know these guys aren’t The Real Buddhists because The Real Buddhists don’t kill people, therefore this can’t be an example of The Real Buddhists killing people.” To those of thus who don’t believe in fairy tales about hungry ghosts and reincarnation and hells with multiple levels and all the other nonsense that Buddhists believe that is no more rational or moral than what Western religions are into, this is what it is. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2013, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-coerced-conversion-to-buddhism-unknown-to-history/655425/32 "2013-04-23T04:09:25Z")
**No one** expects the Buddhist Inquisition! We never **stop** Putting the Question! ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2013, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-coerced-conversion-to-buddhism-unknown-to-history/655425/33 "2013-04-23T04:10:48Z")
> [@Condescending\_Robot](#): > > Sorry about your morally abhorrent, anti-life beliefs and the stark light being thrown on them by your co-religionists engineering a genocide. Try not to let the cognitive dissonance give you too much of a migraine. The cognitive dissonance that can be described is not the true cognitive dissonance. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2013, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-coerced-conversion-to-buddhism-unknown-to-history/655425/34 "2013-04-23T04:13:43Z")
> [@Condescending\_Robot](#): > > Except the 125,000 Muslims who are. And this is both the first and the last time you will ever defend them. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2013, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-coerced-conversion-to-buddhism-unknown-to-history/655425/35 "2013-04-23T04:15:25Z")
> [@Condescending\_Robot](#): > > To those of thus who don’t believe in fairy tales about hungry ghosts and reincarnation and hells with multiple levels and all the other nonsense that Buddhists believe that is no more rational or moral than what Western religions are into, this is what it is. To such as Alan Watts, OTOH, three pounds of flax. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2013, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-coerced-conversion-to-buddhism-unknown-to-history/655425/36 "2013-04-23T04:19:49Z")
> [@Koxinga](#): > > What better way to keep the poor in their place, then to guilt trip them into believing they must have done something to deserve it in a “past life”? Why, the better way than that is the Euro-Christian way: Guilt-trip them into believing that they will deserve **and get** something better in a “future life,” if only they will accept and embrace and repent of (but never rebel against!) the guilt! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2013, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-coerced-conversion-to-buddhism-unknown-to-history/655425/37 "2013-04-23T04:22:41Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > Who is killing people today for the simple reason that those others aren’t Buddhist? (Assuming you really did mean “simple reason”, and not a complex reason such as a broader power struggle between groups that contain Buddhists and groups that don’t, in which case it’s not so simple). No fair, either! :mad: ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2013, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-coerced-conversion-to-buddhism-unknown-to-history/655425/38 "2013-04-23T04:23:59Z")
> [@David\_H\_Singanas](#): > > I suggest that you take with a grain of salt any statements from someone who > quotes WIKIPEDIA. The best sources are BRITANNICA, WORLD BOOK, and > ENCARTA. :dubious: You did **not,** of course, type that with a straight hand. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2013, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-coerced-conversion-to-buddhism-unknown-to-history/655425/39 "2013-04-23T04:28:08Z")
Hey, what did the Buddhist [say](http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Buddha) to the hot-dog vendor? 😃 Do not go by revelation; Do not go by tradition; Do not go by hearsay; Do not go on the authority of sacred texts; Do not go on the grounds of pure logic; Do not go by a view that seems rational; Do not go by reflecting on mere appearances; Do not go along with a considered view because you agree with it; Do not go along on the grounds that the person is competent; Do not go along because “the recluse is our teacher.” Kalamas, when you yourselves know: These things are unwholesome, these things are blameworthy; these things are censured by the wise; and when undertaken and observed, these things lead to harm and ill, abandon them… Kalamas, when you know for yourselves: These are wholesome; these things are not blameworthy; these things are praised by the wise; undertaken and observed, these things lead to benefit and happiness, having undertaken them, abide in them. Oh, and, sweet-pickle relish and sauerkraut, please. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2013, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-coerced-conversion-to-buddhism-unknown-to-history/655425/40 "2013-04-23T04:32:10Z")
> [@Condescending\_Robot](#): > > To those of thus who don’t believe in fairy tales about hungry ghosts . . . . . . the hungry ghosts will eat. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2013, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-coerced-conversion-to-buddhism-unknown-to-history/655425/41 "2013-04-23T04:34:51Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > The Scotsman who can be described is not the true Scotsman. And, remember, if you meet the True Scotsman on the road, **cut off his head with your Claymore!** [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-coerced-conversion-to-buddhism-unknown-to-history/655425.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-coerced-conversion-to-buddhism-unknown-to-history/655425.md?page=3)