# Is Cordoba House a provocative name? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 4, 2010, 11:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cordoba-house-a-provocative-name/549130 "2010-08-04T11:57:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Girl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7bcc69/32.png) [@Mighty\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Girl)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2010, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cordoba-house-a-provocative-name/549130/41 "2010-08-04T20:58:02Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > > [@Suburban\_Plankton](#): > > > > Furthermore, taking the ‘oba’ out of both names leaves you with ‘corma’, which is an alternative spelling of ‘korma’, which is an Indian dish. And Indians are all Hindu, which although it isn’t the same as being Muslim, is really close, or at least is certainly very much ‘foreign’, and therefore ‘bad’. And we can’t have anything ‘bad’ in New York City! > > It’s not that simple. > > Cordoba House has been changed to Park51. The 51 means “skip the first letters”. The next letter is B. The 1 means “take the first letter in the second word”. That’s H. The first letter in Park is P. Park is the first word. Take the letter, therefore, that is before the first letter in Park, which is O. > > BHO. See where I am going with this? > > 51 is the number of states in the Union, plus Washington DC. Cordoba has seven letters, but they changed it. So they don’t mean the 57 states that Obama visited. They must mean the 57 varieties of Heinz. Who is married to a Heinz heiress? > > John Kerry! See the K, which sounds like the C, the first letter in Cordoba? Which is also the last letter in Park! Coincidence? I don’t think so. > > Obviously, the Muslims are planning (along with our Muslim President - don’t try to deny it - [He’s admitted it](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKGdkqfBICw)) to use the ketchup money to take over all 50 states plus the D of C. Which they will rename District of Cordoba. > > Don’t say I haven’t warned you. > > Regards, > Shodan This sounds like a reasonable explanation. Do you have a newsletter? ---
**Author:** ![Carol\_the\_Impaler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Carol\_the\_Impaler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carol_the_Impaler)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2010, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cordoba-house-a-provocative-name/549130/42 "2010-08-04T21:05:56Z")
Don’t fuck with the ketchup cabal. ---
**Author:** ![Knorf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58956e/32.png) [@Knorf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knorf)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2010, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cordoba-house-a-provocative-name/549130/43 "2010-08-04T21:26:51Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > It’s not that simple. > > Cordoba House has been changed to Park51. The 51 means “skip the first letters”. The next letter is B. The 1 means “take the first letter in the second word”. That’s H. The first letter in Park is P. Park is the first word. Take the letter, therefore, that is before the first letter in Park, which is O. > > BHO. See where I am going with this? > > 51 is the number of states in the Union, plus Washington DC. Cordoba has seven letters, but they changed it. So they don’t mean the 57 states that Obama visited. They must mean the 57 varieties of Heinz. Who is married to a Heinz heiress? > > John Kerry! See the K, which sounds like the C, the first letter in Cordoba? Which is also the last letter in Park! Coincidence? I don’t think so. > > Obviously, the Muslims are planning (along with our Muslim President - don’t try to deny it - [He’s admitted it](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKGdkqfBICw)) to use the ketchup money to take over all 50 states plus the D of C. Which they will rename District of Cordoba. > > Don’t say I haven’t warned you. > > Regards, > Shodan Hilarious! ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2010, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cordoba-house-a-provocative-name/549130/44 "2010-08-04T21:43:25Z")
> [@](#): > > Don’t fuck with the ketchup cabal. Yeah, mayonnaise makes a much better lube. ---
**Author:** ![sqweels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f19dbf/32.png) [@sqweels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sqweels)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2010, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cordoba-house-a-provocative-name/549130/45 "2010-08-05T04:42:01Z")
I noticed on the Google map that St. Peter’s Catholic Church is roughly between the Mosque and Ground Zero. Won’t that emanate a kind of Christian force field to protect the sanctity of Ground Zero from the blasphemy waves emanating from Park51? ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2010, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cordoba-house-a-provocative-name/549130/46 "2010-08-05T04:57:24Z")
B-bu-but **sqweels** , what kind of American are you? What kind, what kind, what kind of Christian? Were you born in the blood? Oh, I’m betting you were not! Everybody (everybody, that is, who is not a heathen like you evidently are) knows _Catholics aren’t Christians_! D’uh! Those Moslems are in cahoots with the Papacy, via the Spanish Inquisition and Obama’s birthplace! (It isn’t against the rules to have fun in GD, is it?) ---
**Author:** ![Rhiannon8404](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rhiannon8404/32/17929_2.png) [@Rhiannon8404](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhiannon8404)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2010, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cordoba-house-a-provocative-name/549130/47 "2010-08-05T05:09:58Z")
> [@newcrasher](#): > > I am involved in a discussion on my Facebook page with some real mouth breathing neandertals about the proposed Cordoba House. As you know this is the name of the Muslim center being contemplated near the WTC site. > > \ > > What is the debate? Was the name "Cordoba House chosen to signify muslim domination of the West? OMG! Were we having the same debate? One of the people in my conversation used the exact same phrase. It start when she posted a link to a guy ranting about the Muslimification of Europe or some such thing. Ps…Did you go to Pondorosa High school? ---
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2010, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cordoba-house-a-provocative-name/549130/48 "2010-08-05T05:10:58Z")
> [@niblet\_head](#): > > Don’t fuck with the ketchup cabal. I think I may steal this to use as my signature. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2010, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cordoba-house-a-provocative-name/549130/49 "2010-08-05T05:33:48Z")
> [@Love\_Rhombus](#): > > > [@Shodan](#): > > > > What do the Muslims who are building the place say about why they chose that name? > > > > Regards, > > Shodan > > An excellent question. It’s irrelevant now anyway, they changed it to Park51, which is less musical but less controversial as well. When did they do that? [This AP story](http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_GROUND_ZERO_MOSQUE?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2010-08-04-22-19-45), posted at 10:19pm on 4 August 2010 refers to the place as Cordoba and doesn’t mention Park51 at all. Got a cite for the rest of us? ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2010, 6:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cordoba-house-a-provocative-name/549130/50 "2010-08-05T06:08:26Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > > [@Love\_Rhombus](#): > > > > An excellent question. It’s irrelevant now anyway, they changed it to Park51, which is less musical but less controversial as well. > > When did they do that? [This AP story](http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_GROUND_ZERO_MOSQUE?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2010-08-04-22-19-45), posted at 10:19pm on 4 August 2010 refers to the place as Cordoba and doesn’t mention Park51 at all. > > Got a cite for the rest of us? Your article just refers to the group as the “Cordoba Inititive”, but it doesn’t reference the name of the proposed religious center one way or another. The wikipedia article on the “Cordoba House” also says that the name was changed to Park51. ---
**Author:** ![SecondJudith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@SecondJudith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SecondJudith)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2010, 9:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cordoba-house-a-provocative-name/549130/51 "2010-08-05T09:51:07Z")
> [@SanVito](#): > > When I read the name I thought ‘how nice, they’ve named it after a time and place when Muslims resided peacefully in the West, were much more reasonable, less-extreme and science minded than they often seem nowadays, sounds like it says something nice about the people setting up the mosque.’ Yes, me too. The first thing I associate with “Cordoba” is “idealised era when Muslims, Jews and Christians got reasonably along – lots of high political positions for people of different religions, lots of art, music and poetry, lots of science and idea exchange, Aisha al-Fajr skipping hand in hand down the street with Rachel bat Asher and Maria Sanchez”. ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2010, 9:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cordoba-house-a-provocative-name/549130/52 "2010-08-05T09:56:20Z")
Ah, yes! Back in the old days when “suicide vests” weren’t even a glint in Aisha’s papa’s eyes. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2010, 10:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cordoba-house-a-provocative-name/549130/53 "2010-08-05T10:45:18Z")
I may be showing my age here, but the Park51name is reminding me of Studio 54. Will the crescent moon have a spoon? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2010, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cordoba-house-a-provocative-name/549130/54 "2010-08-05T13:14:57Z")
No, but it might be made out of cocaine. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2010, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cordoba-house-a-provocative-name/549130/55 "2010-08-05T13:27:54Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > I’m not sure that’s going to help much. Tolerant or not, Muslims still ruled Cordoba and al-Andalus. It’s not as though Jews and Christians were equal partners in a power-sharing arrangement or something. > > . You could interpret it as the muslims saying “hey, look how great things were when WE were in charge”. Of course the fact that the west generally went forward (in fits and starts), while many islamic/muslim countries stagnated or went backwards since then seems to have gone unnoticed by them. I really don’t care if “you” invented zero thousands of years ago. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2010, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cordoba-house-a-provocative-name/549130/56 "2010-08-05T13:31:35Z")
Actually, the concept of zero was invented in North India by proto-Hindus. However, unless you’re really dense, I don’t see why you _would_ interpret it that way. I’m inclined to take them at their word; militant Islamists usually aren’t all that subtle. ---
**Author:** ![Carol\_the\_Impaler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Carol\_the\_Impaler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carol_the_Impaler)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2010, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cordoba-house-a-provocative-name/549130/57 "2010-08-05T14:20:12Z")
> [@Suburban\_Plankton](#): > > > [@niblet\_head](#): > > > > Don’t fuck with the ketchup cabal. > > I think I may steal this to use as my signature. We hath deemed it acceptable. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2010, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cordoba-house-a-provocative-name/549130/58 "2010-08-05T14:30:10Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > You could interpret it as the muslims saying “hey, look how great things were when WE were in charge”. Only if you were looking to pick a fight with them. If they were calling it the International House of Chicken and Wahabbism your interpretation might work better. > [@](#): > > Of course the fact that the west generally went forward (in fits and starts), while many islamic/muslim countries stagnated or went backwards since then seems to have gone unnoticed by them. The Cordoba Initiative people probably wouldn’t put it that way but that’s why they’re making a historical reference. If there was a more current example they would probably use that. ---
**Author:** ![jasonh300](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/46a35a/32.png) [@jasonh300](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasonh300)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2010, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cordoba-house-a-provocative-name/549130/59 "2010-08-06T02:48:47Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > My first thought was that the place would be full of rich Corinthian leather, truth be told. Ricardo Montalban is turning in his grave! ---
**Author:** ![Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aji_de_gallina/32/260_2.png) [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aji_de_Gallina)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2010, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cordoba-house-a-provocative-name/549130/60 "2010-08-06T05:50:31Z")
I thought it was an Argentinian Asados (BBQ) place. Seriously, what Mr. Moto said. It’s their place and they should be able to call it any way they want, but having some sensitivity to the issue always helps. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cordoba-house-a-provocative-name/549130.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cordoba-house-a-provocative-name/549130.md?page=4)