Some of those nearly 800 years (specifically, between 1239 and the expulsion) were under Christian rule, even.
My first thought was that the place would be full of rich Corinthian leather, truth be told.
You know that, and I know that, but the people the OP is arguing with aren’t going to accept that.
These controversies aren’t really new - I have read commentary from several sources recently comparing this dustup to the Auschwitz convent/cross.
Were the Carmelite nuns at the convent at all complicit in the Holocaust? No. Was the convent inappropriately placed? Probably - it was only built there in 1984, so its removal was appropriate, IMHO. Were calls to remove the cross placed by the Pope appropriate? Probably not, IMHO, considering that Christians died in the camp as well.
Manhattan is a big place - there are lots of places for a mosque to go, and indeed there are many there already. I am not opposed to others. Appropriate memorials at the 9/11 site are certainly welcome and can certainly include contributions from the Muslim community. Whether a mosque at the site is appropriate can certainly be debated by people, just like the Auschwitz convent was, without necessarily deeming people with differing opinions “mouth breathing neanderthals.”
And this seems perfectly reasonable to me. When I read the name I thought ‘how nice, they’ve named it after a time and place when Muslims resided peacefully in the West, were much more reasonable, less-extreme and science minded than they often seem nowadays, sounds like it says something nice about the people setting up the mosque.’
Some times a spade is just a spade. But some people seem determined to keep digging til they find some imaginary slight on USA! USA!
You could probably get some good stuff from the previous threadon it.
I looked quickly and one of the things I remember from that other thread is that the site is actually a few blocks from the WTC site.
You mean a generous 5% of the population? That’s a relief.
Whether or not that debate is appropriate isn’t really an issue. There is already a mosque at 51 Park Place. The Cordoba plan is an expansion of an existing facility, not the creation of a new one.
In any event, as numerous people have pointed out in related threads, it’s not at the 9/11 site. You can see for yourself here. It’s two blocks away from Ground Zero.
ETA: justrob beat me to it.
In the same holy ground occupied by a “Marty’s Shoes” and the “Equinox Fitness Club”.
Coupla facts that tend to get lost in this debate:
It isn’t at ground zero. It’s a few blocks away. Those opposed to the construction may not realize how small downtown Manhattan is. Everything is just a few blocks away.
It isn’t a mosque. It’s a cultural center, which includes prayer space for Islamic prayer. Whether or not that space qualifies as a mosque, I don’t know, but even if it does, it’s just one part of the whole.
Speaking as a lifelong New Yorker, I really have no problem with this. Lower Manhattan is full of churches and synagogues. If we are a nation of religious freedom, well, then that freedom applies to Muslims too.
ETA: Beaten to it.
Sure, I agree. They are free to do what they wish. But freedom can also mean the freedom to listen to others and do what you might not have initially wished to do, which is what the Catholic Church did when they moved the convent away from Auschwitz.
Just to affirm that this is not on the site of anything related to September 11th, I’ll repost this: here’s a map of lower Manhattan that highlights where this building is relative to the WTC site. I’m not sure why they are calling it 51Park since the address is 45-47 Park Place, but that’s life. Incidentally I see there is already a mosque very close by. It’s over here, about two blocks away from the site. Of course it’s probably been there for a while, so it doesn’t make a sexy protest.
The Cordoba Initiative name might be using an unrealistically rosy interpretation of history but it does not appear to be a deliberate provocation or anything unusual. Given who these people are and the message they are trying to send, there are only so many options and I see no reason to conclude that the name is not valid.
Including at the site being argued … but that’s already been addressed.
Anderson Cooper asked a decent question of somebody opposing the mosque … just how far away from Ground Zero is far enough to be okay? Two blocks is too close. How about three blocks? Or does the evil Muslim stain cease to be a matter at 4 blocks? Or at Canal Street? Or Mid-Town? Or Harlem? Or Yonkers? What?
It’s just not the same without a chalkboard
Gawddammit! It was supposed to be a secret! 
IMO, ‘Cordoba’ is ***highly ***provocative, because that is where Obama was actually born…and he is of course a well known Muslim!
or maybe, just possibly, these people can’t come up with any legitimate reason to oppose the site, so they’re just making shit up.
And it’s in Spain! And no one expects the Spanish Inquisition!
And it ends in “oba”… and Obama starts with “oba”!
Furthermore, taking the ‘oba’ out of both names leaves you with ‘corma’, which is an alternative spelling of ‘korma’, which is an Indian dish. And Indians are all Hindu, which although it isn’t the same as being Muslim, is really close, or at least is certainly very much ‘foreign’, and therefore ‘bad’. And we can’t have anything ‘bad’ in New York City!
This stuff almost writes itself…where can I get my own conspiracy website?
I understand this is Great Debates, and I should probably therefore be taking this issue a bit more seriously, but I honestly don’t think I’m capable. Its either ridicule or rage, and I’m just not feeling that rage-y today.
ETA:
Damn! taking the ‘oba’ out of both names actually leaves ‘cordma’…but it doesn’t matter. That extra ‘d’ is just to throw people off the scent so they won’t uncover the ***real ***truth!
It’s not that simple.
Cordoba House has been changed to Park51. The 51 means “skip the first letters”. The next letter is B. The 1 means “take the first letter in the second word”. That’s H. The first letter in Park is P. Park is the first word. Take the letter, therefore, that is before the first letter in Park, which is O.
BHO. See where I am going with this?
51 is the number of states in the Union, plus Washington DC. Cordoba has seven letters, but they changed it. So they don’t mean the 57 states that Obama visited. They must mean the 57 varieties of Heinz. Who is married to a Heinz heiress?
John Kerry! See the K, which sounds like the C, the first letter in Cordoba? Which is also the last letter in Park! Coincidence? I don’t think so.
Obviously, the Muslims are planning (along with our Muslim President - don’t try to deny it - He’s admitted it) to use the ketchup money to take over all 50 states plus the D of C. Which they will rename District of Cordoba.
Don’t say I haven’t warned you.
Regards,
Shodan