# Is cornbread bread or cake? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 15, 2019, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cornbread-bread-or-cake/832585 "2019-04-15T17:46:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2019, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cornbread-bread-or-cake/832585/41 "2019-04-17T13:47:59Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > **kayaker** , I’d agree that chili isn’t soup, because it’s stew. Though admittedly the line between soup and stew can be a bit blurry. To simplify, though, if you can eat it on a plate and/or with a fork, it’s stew, not soup. It’s one of my pet peeves. As in a restaurant what their soups are and get “cream of mushroom, wedding, chicken noodle, and chili”. I always reply that chili isn’t a soup. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2019, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cornbread-bread-or-cake/832585/42 "2019-04-17T14:08:13Z")
You people pick the weirdest battles. Which category should chili be under? Sandwiches? Salads? Seafood dishes? ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2019, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cornbread-bread-or-cake/832585/43 "2019-04-17T14:21:33Z")
Chili should be under “Soups/Stews.” But calling chili a soup doesn’t bother near as much as **Chronos** calling banana/zucchini bread “[sweetbreads](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sweetbread).” Dude, put a space in there, for all that is holy! ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2019, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cornbread-bread-or-cake/832585/44 "2019-04-17T14:23:39Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > You people pick the weirdest battles. Which category should chili be under? Sandwiches? Salads? Seafood dishes? Where do you put Nachos Grande? The lack of a category doesn’t make it ok to call it soup. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2019, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cornbread-bread-or-cake/832585/45 "2019-04-17T14:25:38Z")
Appetizers, obviously. I would accept chili along with soup under starters. But if I ask the waiter what soups they have and they have chili they darn well better include it in the list! ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2019, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cornbread-bread-or-cake/832585/46 "2019-04-17T14:32:34Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > Chili should be under “Soups/Stews.” But calling chili a soup doesn’t bother near as much as **Chronos** calling banana/zucchini bread “[sweetbreads](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sweetbread).” Dude, put a space in there, for all that is holy! Don’t forget, he made [caul slaw.](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=813631) 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Mama\_Zappa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/71e660/32.png) [@Mama\_Zappa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mama_Zappa)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2019, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cornbread-bread-or-cake/832585/47 "2019-04-17T14:47:12Z")
Neither. True bread is yeasted / raised and has a lot more structural integrity. There’s a term “quick bread” which refers to something like this, raised with baking powder / baking soda. Think banana bread or date-nut bread. They have more in common with cake, chemically-speaking, but the texture is not at all like something I consider to be cake. Cake is specifically designed as a dessert. Cornbread is not dessert. ---
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2019, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cornbread-bread-or-cake/832585/48 "2019-04-17T17:11:35Z")
Oh, for fuck’s sake. Cornbread is BREAD. I made a skillet of it last night to go with my soup beans. White cornmeal, cream of tartar, baking soda, salt. One egg beaten into 3/4 cup of buttermilk (or a little yogurt or sour cream whacked with milk). Pour into a hot greased pan and bake at 425 for 20 minutes. You can eat the leftovers reheated the next morning with butter and blackberry preserves, but that’s the closest sweet should ever get to it. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2019, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cornbread-bread-or-cake/832585/49 "2019-04-17T18:33:30Z")
I voted “it can be either,” meaning depending on how it’s made. Proper corn bread is what I’d call “bread” (of the “quick bread” variety, as mentioned above.) ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2019, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cornbread-bread-or-cake/832585/50 "2019-04-18T00:04:19Z")
> [@Ukulele\_Ike](#): > > Oh, for fuck’s sake. Cornbread is BREAD. I made a skillet of it last night to go with my soup beans. soup beans or bean soup? Enquiring minds want to know. ---
**Author:** ![Oly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/oly/32/8255_2.png) [@Oly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oly)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2019, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cornbread-bread-or-cake/832585/51 "2019-04-18T01:43:18Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > …you don’t spread butter on cake. What is frosting if not sweetened aerated butter? Unless of course you’re talking about that readymade crap in the cardboard “can”. In that case, I repeat, what [TF] is [this so-called] “frosting?”. The essence of this debate seems to boil down to the archetypal dispute between those rare few of us smart people who seek to find the essence of things, and all those other folks — bless their hearts!— who just seem to get distracted by the superficialities. Just because it’s got bread in the name, that don’t make it bread. Otherwise jellyfish would have fins and be made out of Concord grapes, and we’d all crave bacon made from Guinea pigs. Oh, but, you say, you eat cornbread in the same culinary contexts that you eat other bread, you say. That dog don’t hunt! Otherwise a horse (or a fish, if you’re Aquaman) would be a bicycle. No, cornbread’s a cake. Sorry to burst your bubble, or punch down your dough. In the same way, a cinnamon roll is, yep, you got it, bread Home Slice! But even if you do want to prance around on the surface of things, riddle me this, cornbread-is-bread Einsteins: Would you ever make a _ **sandwich** _— and I’m not talking about a little peanut butter and jelly— but a real Dagwood two-hander can’t-get-it-all-in-one-bite tower— out of _cornbread_?!? Case closed. ---
**Author:** ![carnut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnut/32/3531_2.png) [@carnut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnut)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2019, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cornbread-bread-or-cake/832585/52 "2019-04-18T03:01:42Z")
It’s a shortbread, as Beckdawrek already pointed out. ---
**Author:** ![BeeGee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b5a626/32.png) [@BeeGee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeeGee)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2019, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cornbread-bread-or-cake/832585/53 "2019-04-18T03:59:43Z")
> [@Ukulele\_Ike](#): > > Oh, for fuck’s sake. Cornbread is BREAD. I made a skillet of it last night to go with my soup beans. > > White cornmeal, cream of tartar, baking soda, salt. One egg beaten into 3/4 cup of buttermilk (or a little yogurt or sour cream whacked with milk). Pour into a hot greased pan and bake at 425 for 20 minutes. > > You can eat the leftovers reheated the next morning with butter and blackberry preserves, but that’s the closest sweet should ever get to it. Close. 1c cornmeal, 1 c flour, 1T baking powder, 1\4 t each sofa and salt, 1\4 c oil, 1-1/4 c buttermilk, and two eggs. Soup beans are beans that are about to be introduced to greens and cornbread. ---
**Author:** ![ExTank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@ExTank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExTank)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2019, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cornbread-bread-or-cake/832585/54 "2019-04-18T04:17:31Z")
I voted “Depend son how it’s made.” I’ve had cornbread that was as sweet an some confections, and some that was more bread like with only a naturally sweet corn taste (no sugar added). ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2019, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cornbread-bread-or-cake/832585/55 "2019-04-18T05:03:00Z")
I make it with a 5-to-1 ratio of cornmeal to all-purpose flour. One and two-thirds cup cornmeal, one-third cup flour. Half plain milk and half buttermilk; half baking powder and half baking soda, and eggs. I give it one tablespoon of maple syrup for a slight touch of sweetness (but then I also use honey in my wheat & yeast bread). Sometimes I like to add diced fresh jalapeños. Baking makes them translucent and they look like beautiful emeralds. ---
**Author:** ![Lacunae\_Matata](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8491ac/32.png) [@Lacunae\_Matata](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lacunae_Matata)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2019, 7:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cornbread-bread-or-cake/832585/56 "2019-04-18T07:47:36Z")
Proper cornbread is bread. But it’s all about context, I think… I’m from a coastal-adjacent rural area of Georgia. Cornbread contains no sugar here, and is best made with a coarse meal of white corn, minimal flour, and in Granny’s iron skillet. (In a hot oven, or as a thinner layer on the stove, when it’s too hot to turn on the oven.) Or it’s made with just meal, a little salt, and water, and pan-fried for lacy cornbread. Best with a pot of greens, and/or beans, imho. My stepdad is from West Virginia. He honestly thinks that Jiffy mix is cornbread, too. And I don’t mind an occasional Jiffy muffin. It’s a fine dessert. But he grew up on potatoes, which was a springtime luxury when I was a kid. (No root cellars around here, and potatoes will rot in the ground by about June, due to the temperature and or humidity.) My suspicion is that, in places where milled wheat flour has been commonly available due to climate, “cornbread” was a novelty invented by dumping a couple of tablespoons of fine-ground yellow meal into some other quick bread recipe. And that’s fine for what it is. It’s not cornbread. (The closest comparison I can make is a Campbell’s soup recipe book from 1963, versus the beef Stroganoff recipe from The Joy of Cooking. If you squint, they appear similar enough I guess. But not really. And both are just a Eurocentric interpretation of common ingredients.) I’m from a place where corn was the most available grain. Wheat just doesn’t grow well in SE Georgia. Rice is the second traditional starch here, and it’s terribly labor intensive. And, like everywhere since nomads settled down to farm, the cheapest grain was the traditional staple as a porridge for breakfast (grits,) an every meal bread, livestock feed, etc. ---
**Author:** ![swampbear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/swampbear/32/467_2.png) [@swampbear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/swampbear)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2019, 9:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cornbread-bread-or-cake/832585/57 "2019-04-18T09:45:44Z")
Sugar in cornbread is an abomination that shall not be tolerated. Those that do so are condemned to a special level of hell where a southern grandma continually beats them over the head with her big wooden stirring spoon for doing so. The Jiffy mix stuff is a corn muffin mix and is not in any way, shape, form, or fashion cornbread. Also, corn bread is baked in a well-seasoned cast iron skillet. It is acceptable to make cornbread muffin style but the pan should always be well-seasoned cast iron. In summary, if I find out you put sugar in cornbread I _WILL_ call your mama! ---
**Author:** ![Oly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/oly/32/8255_2.png) [@Oly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oly)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2019, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cornbread-bread-or-cake/832585/58 "2019-04-18T12:52:24Z")
So, all the people who say cornbread is bread - explain. What criteria are you using? For me, it’s got nothing to do with sweetness or when, how or with what else it’s eaten. It comes down the underlying substrate. Both bread and cake start out the same — fundamentally flour and liquid, +/- an infinitude of other stuff. To make a cake, the proportions of dry and wet are mixed to the consistency of a slurry, a _batter_, which is pourable. With bread, the dry and wet are mixed into a _dough_, which has a variable degree of elasticity, such that you can pick up the whole wad at once (try that with cornbread, or cake, batter). This is where the divergence happens - batter vs dough. And that’s why cornbread is cake, because it goes through a batter phase. Not much question in my mind about it, really, at this point. Now, I’m comvicable to another point of view, but you breaders better come up with some good criteria. If you were talking about biscuits, then I’d be more inclined to see some gray, as biscuits also go through a batter-like phase. But then by the time that gets rolled out and cut, it’s dough. So biscuits are bread. But that’s fodder for another thread. ---
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2019, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cornbread-bread-or-cake/832585/59 "2019-04-18T13:26:01Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > soup beans or bean soup? Enquiring minds want to know. Soup beans — pintos cooked with onion, garlic, and some variety of smoked pork (neckbones for me). AKA hobo beans or hillbilly beans. It’s just a very simple bean soup, usually dished up with greens and cornbread, like **beegee** said. > **[Soup beans](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soup_beans)** > > Soup beans is a term common in the Southern United States, particularly the regions around the Appalachian Mountains. Soup beans are usually served with cornbread, greens (such as boiled cabbage, cauliflower, or sauerkraut and sausage), and potatoes (stewed or fried) and may be topped with raw chopped onions or ramps. Soup beans are considered a main course, but also serve as a side dish. In rural areas, where food was scarce during the winter, these dried beans were a staple food. > While soup b... I never put wheat flour in my cornbread. ---
**Author:** ![SOJA](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@SOJA](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SOJA)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2019, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cornbread-bread-or-cake/832585/60 "2019-04-18T13:27:42Z")
> [@Oly](#): > > So, all the people who say cornbread is bread - explain. What criteria are you using? > > For me, it’s got nothing to do with sweetness or when, how or with what else it’s eaten. It comes down the underlying substrate. Both bread and cake start out the same — fundamentally flour and liquid, +/- an infinitude of other stuff. To make a cake, the proportions of dry and wet are mixed to the consistency of a slurry, a _batter_, which is pourable. With bread, the dry and wet are mixed into a _dough_, which has a variable degree of elasticity, such that you can pick up the whole wad at once (try that with cornbread, or cake, batter). > > This is where the divergence happens - batter vs dough. And that’s why cornbread is cake, because it goes through a batter phase. Not much question in my mind about it, really, at this point. Now, I’m comvicable to another point of view, but you breaders better come up with some good criteria. > > If you were talking about biscuits, then I’d be more inclined to see some gray, as biscuits also go through a batter-like phase. But then by the time that gets rolled out and cut, it’s dough. So biscuits are bread. But that’s fodder for another thread. What’s your take on a poulish that slowly has flour added to it? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cornbread-bread-or-cake/832585.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cornbread-bread-or-cake/832585.md?page=4)