# Is cows milk necessary in todays world? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 18, 2018, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cows-milk-necessary-in-todays-world/821552 "2018-09-18T20:32:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Snnipe\_70E](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5a626/32.png) [@Snnipe\_70E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snnipe_70E)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2018, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cows-milk-necessary-in-todays-world/821552/21 "2018-09-18T23:30:46Z")
> [@scr4](#): > > By the way, I’m pretty sure methane emission from cows is not regulated. So that is not a cost to the producer, therefore it’s not a market force. Quiet, don’t give them Ideas ---
**Author:** ![snowthx](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowthx/32/10660_2.png) [@snowthx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snowthx)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2018, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cows-milk-necessary-in-todays-world/821552/22 "2018-09-18T23:30:54Z")
> [@Omar\_Little](#): > > The market forces are what support the existing industry. Are what you really proposing is the banning of dairy products through government edict? If so then market forces really have no say there. Not really: [U.S. dairy subsidies equal 73 percent of producer returns](https://www.realagriculture.com/2018/02/u-s-dairy-subsidies-equal-73-percent-of-producer-returns-says-new-report/) _USDA data reveals that for more than a decade, U.S. farm gate prices for milk fail to cover costs of production._ So, we taxpayers are paying for overproduction of a product, much of which is going to waste. If market forces were allowed to play a larger role in the dairy industry, we’d probably see a lot more dairy farms going out of business. Who’s going to advocate for that? ---
**Author:** ![Dobbs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Dobbs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dobbs)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2018, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cows-milk-necessary-in-todays-world/821552/23 "2018-09-18T23:34:01Z")
We can also live without beer and tequila - if you call that living. ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2018, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cows-milk-necessary-in-todays-world/821552/24 "2018-09-18T23:37:27Z")
Baby cows like milk. I like hamburgers, feed them calves, I say. Milk is a staple in fridges all across the country. I ain’t about to give up ice cream, yogurt, cheese. Butter, meh, ok, I can live without. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2018, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cows-milk-necessary-in-todays-world/821552/25 "2018-09-18T23:39:05Z")
> [@snowthx](#): > > So, we taxpayers are paying for overproduction of a product, much of which is going to waste. If market forces were allowed to play a larger role in the dairy industry, we’d probably see a lot more dairy farms going out of business. Who’s going to advocate for that? It depends on whether the public loves milk, and wants it subsidized to as low a price as possible, or whether they truly don’t want that much of it in which case the farms may as well produce something else. ---
**Author:** ![Baker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bb73d2/32.png) [@Baker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baker)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2018, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cows-milk-necessary-in-todays-world/821552/26 "2018-09-18T23:43:34Z")
> [@Grrr](#): > > So beef is still ok? Sure! Remember PETA stands for **P** eople **E** ating **T** asty **A** nimals. ---
**Author:** ![Sloe\_Moe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8797f3/32.png) [@Sloe\_Moe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sloe_Moe)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2018, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cows-milk-necessary-in-todays-world/821552/27 "2018-09-18T23:44:22Z")
This is like arguing against the use of coal with only power generation in mind, and neglecting coal for steel and cement. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2018, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cows-milk-necessary-in-todays-world/821552/28 "2018-09-19T00:23:22Z")
> [@Nansbread1](#): > > With all the advances in available nutrition and given that milk production is such an intensive and polluting industry (methane gases) is it time to scale down milk production. Except for providing nutrition at very young age (there are alternatives btw) Formula is made from cow’s milk btw; this includes specialty formulas except for lacto-protein-free formula. Are there enough other sources of milk to replace that kind of volume? Are you going to be the person who tells a mother that can’t breastfeed for whatever reason, or a husband whose wife can’t breastfeed for reasons ranging from “kid won’t latch” to “mom is dead”, that their kid can’t get formula? ---
**Author:** ![PoppaSan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/poppasan/32/189_2.png) [@PoppaSan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PoppaSan)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2018, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cows-milk-necessary-in-todays-world/821552/29 "2018-09-19T01:07:51Z")
> [@snowthx](#): > > Not really: [U.S. dairy subsidies equal 73 percent of producer returns](https://www.realagriculture.com/2018/02/u-s-dairy-subsidies-equal-73-percent-of-producer-returns-says-new-report/) > > _USDA data reveals that for more than a decade, U.S. farm gate prices for milk fail to cover costs of production._ > > So, we taxpayers are paying for overproduction of a product, much of which is going to waste. If market forces were allowed to play a larger role in the dairy industry, we’d probably see a lot more dairy farms going out of business. Who’s going to advocate for that? [Not Canada](https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2017/05/03/526613411/how-canadian-dairy-farmers-escape-the-global-milk-glut) > [@](#): > > “Each producer has a share of the market. We call it a quota,” > … > Canadian dairy farmers aren’t forced to cut costs, per pound of milk production, as much as farmers in the rest of the world. As a result, every Canadian has to pay more for milk and cheese and yogurt. It’s like a tax on every milk-drinking family. ---
**Author:** ![coffeecat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/coffeecat/32/3405_2.png) [@coffeecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coffeecat)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2018, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cows-milk-necessary-in-todays-world/821552/30 "2018-09-19T01:40:02Z")
Most of us get our calcium from dairy products. There are other sources, but how much do you like sardines and kale? ---
**Author:** ![Alpha\_Twit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alpha_twit/32/265_2.png) [@Alpha\_Twit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alpha_Twit)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2018, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cows-milk-necessary-in-todays-world/821552/31 "2018-09-19T01:44:46Z")
> [@coffeecat](#): > > Most of us get our calcium from dairy products. There are other sources, but how much do you like sardines and kale? I go through at least two cans of sardines a week. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2018, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cows-milk-necessary-in-todays-world/821552/32 "2018-09-19T02:14:01Z")
> [@coffeecat](#): > > Most of us get our calcium from dairy products. There are other sources, but how much do you like sardines and kale? Almond milks are fortified with calcium and vitamins. I can’t drink cow milk, and ice cream gives me problems also. There are very good ice creams that don’t have dairy in them. ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2018, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cows-milk-necessary-in-todays-world/821552/33 "2018-09-19T04:30:40Z")
They do make these cheap things called vitamins. If you’re afraid you’re not getting enough calcium from dairy, try them. The lil’wrekker just got blood tests for our wellness insurance thingy. She was low in D, they asked her if she drinks enough milk. We are so pale that we use sunscreen in the highest numbers to prevent burning. We are religious about it. I put her on a good one-a-day. It’s so funny cause when she’s home she drinks a lot of milk. Last school year was her first away from home, so I’m sure she didn’t eat as well, more junk food and such. We had a talk. My point is, some peeps can’t get enough D from sunshine, the next best thing is dairy or supplements. So, no we need milk, regular old cow milk, IMO. ---
**Author:** ![Sangahyando](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f14d63/32.png) [@Sangahyando](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sangahyando)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2018, 10:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cows-milk-necessary-in-todays-world/821552/34 "2018-09-19T10:20:25Z")
> [@TruCelt](#): > > I do think that we’d all be a lot healthier, and so would the ecosystem, if we could make the switch to goat’s milk though. Out of interest, can I ask why? – please, fight my ignorance. Is the methane problem less, or non-existent, with goats? My brother opts always for goats’ milk and butter, instead of cows’; for him it’s a humanitarian thing – with dairy goats being a far smaller and less efficient-commerce-driven undertaking, than the industry which involves cows’ milk: as he puts it, he anyway likes to think that dairy producers who specialise in goats are more likely to treat their animals in a less ruthlessly mechanistic way. ---
**Author:** ![senoy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@senoy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/senoy)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2018, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cows-milk-necessary-in-todays-world/821552/35 "2018-09-19T12:30:58Z")
This might be the most obvious question to answer in the world. The human body is primed to give us rewards when we eat things that are high in fats or have trace chemicals that we need. In some chemical configurations, we get exceptionally nice rewards. Milk products give us those rewards, so we eat them. Nutrition has only a very small amount to do with it. It’s certainly possible for us to invent some sort of Vegan “Soylent Octarine” that we pump into our stomachs and it provides us with our nutrition. We wouldn’t get our nice food rewards though, so it would make our quality of life suckier. We generally are willing to pay so that our quality of life isn’t sucky, so we buy cheese and ice cream instead. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2018, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cows-milk-necessary-in-todays-world/821552/36 "2018-09-19T12:59:21Z")
Could we switch to Chihuahua milk? They already make cheese from it. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2018, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cows-milk-necessary-in-todays-world/821552/37 "2018-09-19T13:06:46Z")
The market often doesn’t properly price in effects on the environment, like methane emissions and waste disposal. If those costs were imposed on dairy producers, prices would go up and demand would come down (I doubt it would be eliminated entirely). In the case of dairy, there are further anti-market forces with the government subsidies mentioned above. The dairy industry, of course, isn’t the only industry that doesn’t properly include all environmental costs as a cost of production. Other big industries are oil (probably all non-renewable energy) and many other farm products as well. I’m sure there are others. If all industries were required to pay for their greenhouse gas emissions and other pollutants and externalities, I’m sure we’d see some pretty big realignments. No reason to single out the dairy industry, though. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2018, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cows-milk-necessary-in-todays-world/821552/38 "2018-09-19T13:08:00Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > Could we switch to Chihuahua milk? They already make cheese from it. And Corona from their urine. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2018, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cows-milk-necessary-in-todays-world/821552/39 "2018-09-19T13:44:42Z")
> [@Spiderman](#): > > It’s a good source of protein; how are you suggesting replacing that? I dunno, with any/all of the other protein-rich foods? ---
**Author:** ![Telperion](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telperion/32/509_2.png) [@Telperion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telperion)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2018, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cows-milk-necessary-in-todays-world/821552/40 "2018-09-19T14:46:00Z")
> [@Alpha\_Twit](#): > > I go through at least two cans of sardines a week. You’ll need to bump it up to two cans per day to get to the recommended intake of calcium. I’ll keep my cheese, thanks. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cows-milk-necessary-in-todays-world/821552.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cows-milk-necessary-in-todays-world/821552.md?page=3)