# Is cows milk necessary in todays world? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 18, 2018, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cows-milk-necessary-in-todays-world/821552 "2018-09-18T20:32:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2018, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cows-milk-necessary-in-todays-world/821552/61 "2018-09-21T01:28:30Z")
While road use by heavy trucks is indeed regulated, they probably should be regulated more. It’s a simple concept folks. You want to pump soot or foul gases into the environment? Fine. Pay a fee for it. Just like you pay for the labor, land and machinery used to make any purchased good, you should pay for the damages to health and welfare caused by them as well. Pay your way. Don’t freeload. Incidentally, there are some technological fixes for bovine methane production. But don’t expect them to happen at a wide scale without incentive to do so. [Do cows pollute as much as cars? | HowStuffWorks](https://animals.howstuffworks.com/mammals/methane-cow.htm) ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2018, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cows-milk-necessary-in-todays-world/821552/62 "2018-09-21T15:20:38Z")
Well, while most people are good with goats milk once they get used to the taste, I happen to be allergic to it - no goat cheese, milk or butter for me. Not to mention, while on chemo, my tastebuds are fried - one of the few things that hasn’t changed taste on me is cheese [specifically cheddar, havarti, swiss and whatever the hell velveeta is made from] so one of my common protein foods is cheese. I drink ‘medsludge’ for at least one meal a day [12 oz whole milk, 4 oz homemade greek yogurt, 2 packs carnation instant breakfast in dark chocolate, 2 tb oat flour and 1 tb ground flax seed. Passed my oncology nutritionist and my diabetic nutritionist both.] So, nope, I can’t do without cows milk, and I don’t have enough land to raise a single cow and feed it adequately, nor do I have the ability right now to tend and milk a cow, make my own butter and cheese, and deal with the resultant cowshit. ---
**Author:** ![road\_lobo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d78d45/32.png) [@road\_lobo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/road_lobo)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2018, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cows-milk-necessary-in-todays-world/821552/63 "2018-09-23T02:28:58Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > I like shitting on the sidewalk. And yet there are laws against it. Cite? I doubt that there are any laws that prohibit you from liking to shit on the sidewalk. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2018, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cows-milk-necessary-in-todays-world/821552/64 "2018-09-23T03:32:41Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > Formula is made from cow’s milk btw; this includes specialty formulas except for lacto-protein-free formula. Are there enough other sources of milk to replace that kind of volume? Are you going to be the person who tells a mother that can’t breastfeed for whatever reason, or a husband whose wife can’t breastfeed for reasons ranging from “kid won’t latch” to “mom is dead”, that their kid can’t get formula? In the days before commercially available baby formula, or even some areas where it’s not easily available, and a woman didn’t breastfeed, they would often give their babies goat’s milk. My grandfather kept goats during the Depression for exactly this reason. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2018, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cows-milk-necessary-in-todays-world/821552/65 "2018-09-23T03:37:07Z")
> [@jz78817](#): > > it’s been a long time since I’ve driven past a weigh station that’s actually been open. I live on a state border, and have seen them open along the interstate. ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2018, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cows-milk-necessary-in-todays-world/821552/66 "2018-09-23T13:07:17Z")
My grandparents when they first moved to their new “farm” (the irrigation canal hadn’t reached them yet) had just dairy cows. The area had been open range land so the cows were allowed to wander off into the hills. The boys (including my father) would ride out twice a day to bring them in for milking. So instead of rabbits, deer, etc. eating the grass, it was cows. Turning rangeland into something productive is a good thing economically. (As long as you don’t overgraze, which sadly happens far too often.) The turning grass-into-something thing was going to happen anyway. May as well make it something that can be sold and used to feed people. Now, of course, this sort of thing doesn’t happen with dairy farming in the US (but it still very common with beef cattle). But no doubt it occurs elsewhere in the world. Just keep in mind that not all dairy farming necessarily involves high density, converting grain, etc. into milk which has it losses in terms of nutrition. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2018, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cows-milk-necessary-in-todays-world/821552/67 "2018-09-23T17:50:07Z")
> [@nearwildheaven](#): > > In the days before commercially available baby formula, or even some areas where it’s not easily available, and a woman didn’t breastfeed, they would often give their babies goat’s milk. My grandfather kept goats during the Depression for exactly this reason. Lots of countries where there aren’t goats, though, but the milk of any decently-milking domestic mammal has been used (I’m reasonably sure stories about she-wolves are exaggerated). Two advantages of formula are that the powder is easier to transport safely than a liquid and that by making it with boiled water you can avoid a lot of health issues. I’ve known people from India who were so used to powdered milk they thought us Europeans were nuts for buying it in liquid form. ---
**Author:** ![WildBlueYonder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ce7236/32.png) [@WildBlueYonder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WildBlueYonder)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2018, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cows-milk-necessary-in-todays-world/821552/68 "2018-09-23T19:20:17Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > Market forces and government subsidies, apparently. > > I’d say yank the subsidies just to see what happens, but I _like_ my morning yogurt. Otherwise, not to this poster I quoted; I cant copy and paste in here anymore? Going to have an awful lot of separate comments from me. Yank subsidies? Run the risk of family farms going out of business, more unemployment, corn wont need to be produced across America as much as we do now. More unemployment Get rid of milking cows? How do you like your produce from overseas and all the other shit that comes from there? Yanking subsidies mean higher prices in the store. Family farms get by and I imagine a lot of them make a lot of money, but not all of them. Darren Garrison: I prefer the green stuff, will please set aside some of that for me. Only a few years worth though, not planning on being around too much longer TooManyCats: SOoooo funny about the straws!!! As far as I know there is not being too much milk being dumped in Michigan but I could be wrong. My husband works on a dairy farm and I’ve been to many milk producer meetings…I still might be wrong… ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2018, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cows-milk-necessary-in-todays-world/821552/69 "2018-09-23T20:29:11Z")
> [@WildBlueYonder](#): > > Darren Garrison: > I prefer the green stuff, will please set aside some of that for me. Only a few years worth though, not planning on being around too much longer [They don’t have green yet, but you could try vanilla](https://soylent.com/). ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2018, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cows-milk-necessary-in-todays-world/821552/70 "2018-09-24T02:22:30Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > Lots of countries where there aren’t goats, though, but the milk of any decently-milking domestic mammal has been used (I’m reasonably sure stories about she-wolves are exaggerated). Two advantages of formula are that the powder is easier to transport safely than a liquid and that by making it with boiled water you can avoid a lot of health issues. I’ve known people from India who were so used to powdered milk they thought us Europeans were nuts for buying it in liquid form. Goat’s milk is actually closer to human milk than cow’s milk. Mexican markets also seem to favor powdered milk, specifically a brand called NIDO, over fresh milk. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2018, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cows-milk-necessary-in-todays-world/821552/71 "2018-09-24T03:02:26Z")
Ehm… “fresh milk” and “liquid milk” aren’t the same thing. Most liquid milk in Europe is UHT, and currently over here “fresh milk” isn’t even used to mean “pasteurized at low pressures and low temperatures for a long time”, but to mean “unpasteurized”. Which, yuck. ---
**Author:** ![pohjonen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pohjonen/32/423_2.png) [@pohjonen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pohjonen)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2018, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cows-milk-necessary-in-todays-world/821552/72 "2018-09-24T03:24:47Z")
> [@WildBlueYonder](#): > > Otherwise, not to this poster I quoted; > > I cant copy and paste in here anymore? Change that style drop down in the bottom left corner of the thread to the straight dope version. That was driving me crazy too. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2018, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cows-milk-necessary-in-todays-world/821552/73 "2018-09-25T01:57:32Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > Ehm… “fresh milk” and “liquid milk” aren’t the same thing. Most liquid milk in Europe is UHT, and currently over here “fresh milk” isn’t even used to mean “pasteurized at low pressures and low temperatures for a long time”, but to mean “unpasteurized”. Which, yuck. Unpasteurized milk in the States is described as “raw milk”, and legally it cannot be sold. Some woo medical practitioners think it has special healing properties. And I suppose it could, if it came from a healthy cow, but I personally wouldn’t drink it. I will admit that I have, and it does not in any way resemble what you buy at the store. ---
**Author:** ![harmonicamoon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/65b543/32.png) [@harmonicamoon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/harmonicamoon)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2018, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cows-milk-necessary-in-todays-world/821552/74 "2018-09-25T03:29:03Z")
About goat’s milk. They are a very efficient food-in milk-out vehicle. And true, they will eat almost everything. We raised Nubian goats. The ones with the floppy ears. Beautiful creatures! We fed them the best alfalfa we could find. And the result was delicious milk, and cheese. As to cows, they are disgusting! Talk about ground water contamination. Horrible! But, give me a high butterfat cow’s milk ice cream, yogurt, butter and life is good. Cows become less disgusting and the water contamination less horrible. ---
**Author:** ![Tapiotar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3be4f8/32.png) [@Tapiotar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tapiotar)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2018, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cows-milk-necessary-in-todays-world/821552/75 "2018-09-26T20:11:44Z")
> [@TruCelt](#): > > Left alone it would divide out into a lot of smaller local dairies, and the agri-business dairies would shut down. Sadly, its a given that the dairy lobby will prevent that from happening in the US. > > [Why it’s better for us.](https://www.nps.gov/carl/learn/education/classrooms/upload/ES35-post-why-goats-milk-healthier-info.pdf) > > As to why it’s better for the environment, comprehensive studies are hard to find. An Individual goat definitely puts out less methane than a cow, but also less milk. Most sources agree that the carbon and methane emissions per unit of milk are about equal. > > That is, until you consider the question of feed. Goats will eat anything, and thrive on it. You can rent them out to clear brush by day, and milk them by night. Or you can let them loose in craggy landscapes where no food crops could possibly be grown. At most an occasional fly-by scattering of alfalfa and clover seeds will keep the landscape supporting their nutritional requirements. They do not need the kinds of grain-based, fishmeal enriched and hormone enhanced feeds that cows do in order to achieve the parity described above. > > Goats (like sheep) can be allowed to range on rough landscapes and will come home to be milked on their own - no need to cramp them up in barns and warehouses necessitating the constant stream of antibiotics to manage disease vectors. This also feeds into the “better for us” category. > > Cows get into trouble in any but the flattest, richest pasture lands. And a percentage of them will tend to stay out and dry up rather than come in for regular milking unless rounded up twice daily. And in the rare case, the loss of a single goat is no where near to the financial impact on the farmer to the loss of a cow. Do goats eats plants down to the ground the way sheep do? That’s not so good. The cows on the farm where I grew up did just fine on hilly pastures, and always came to the barn to be milked twice a day. They never had to be rounded up, nor did they at any of the local dairy farms. Furthermore, I can’t tolerate goat’s milk or cheese. It causes immediate projectile vomiting. Other family members are extremely allergic to soy proteins. I’m not allergic to it, but I find the taste unpalatable. Most other fake milks have an unpleasant taste or texture, or are way too high in carbohydrates. Real milk, butter, cream, and cheese for me, thank you. In moderation, of course. ---
**Author:** ![WildBlueYonder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ce7236/32.png) [@WildBlueYonder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WildBlueYonder)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2018, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cows-milk-necessary-in-todays-world/821552/76 "2018-09-28T13:54:35Z")
> [@pohjonen](#): > > Change that style drop down in the bottom left corner of the thread to the straight dope version. That was driving me crazy too. thank you!! How did it get changed???:smack: [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cows-milk-necessary-in-todays-world/821552.md?page=3)