# Is Criss Angel a "real" magician? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 27, 2009, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-criss-angel-a-real-magician/507859 "2009-08-27T02:21:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![statsman1982](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e79b87/32.png) [@statsman1982](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/statsman1982)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-criss-angel-a-real-magician/507859/1 "2009-08-27T02:21:56Z")
I think that I can pose this question in a way that will make it appropriate for GQ rather than IMHO. But it may need to be moved there as it progresses. I’ll trust the mods. How much of Criss Angel’s routine requires television to make the illusion happen? I read somewhere on an older version of his Wikipedia page (I think) that despite claiming that no camera tricks are involved, many of the illusions on his show _Mindfreak_ do indeed involve careful editing and/or shills impersonating passersby. Has anyone ever participated in a Criss Angel trick? Were you a shill or were you really a “random stranger”? ---
**Author:** ![statsman1982](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e79b87/32.png) [@statsman1982](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/statsman1982)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-criss-angel-a-real-magician/507859/2 "2009-08-27T03:21:18Z")
No takers? Really? ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-criss-angel-a-real-magician/507859/3 "2009-08-27T04:02:08Z")
I can’t speak to everything he does, but Criss Angel does most certainly perform magic. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-criss-angel-a-real-magician/507859/4 "2009-08-27T04:08:07Z")
A shill isn’t a camera trick, so I’m not sure why that would matter. Did he also claim no shills? ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-criss-angel-a-real-magician/507859/5 "2009-08-27T04:17:13Z")
Regular magicians have shills, so I don’t think that would disqualify him. There is, however, an inherent cheat in using camera tricks IMO. Essentially, if the camera doesn’t replicate the experience of being in an audience watching the trick, it’s cheating. After all, when I was 15 or so and had my first video camera, I could make a ball suddenly dissapear from my hands by pausing, tossing it, and resuming - that doesn’t put me on par with someone who can make something dissapear right in front of your eyes. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-criss-angel-a-real-magician/507859/6 "2009-08-27T05:20:23Z")
In case **Ianzin** doesn’t show up, I’ll repeat my recollection of his answer to a similar question before: A magician’s job is to create a marvel for his audience. To a large extent, how he achieves that isn’t all that relevant. But of course on the other hand, a special effects artist isn’t generally considered a magician even though they’re essentially trying to accomplish the same goal. Magician to magician, you’ll find a different answer if you ask them where that boundary lies, so there is no true answer. But by the broad definition of trying to produce the illusion that magic had been performed, Criss Angel certainly does at least try to do that. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-criss-angel-a-real-magician/507859/7 "2009-08-27T05:42:28Z")
We seem to be giving way too many opinion based answers here. It seems the OP is asking Would Chris Angel’s illusions work without the use of television cameras? ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-criss-angel-a-real-magician/507859/8 "2009-08-27T05:42:48Z")
Real magicians use magical powers to perform feats of magic. Magic does not exist. Ergo, Criss Angel (whoever he is\*), is **NOT** a real magician. Q.E. D. \*The above is the GQ Factual answer. If he’s an entertainer of some sort, such as, perhaps, an illusionist, shouldn’t this be in Cafe Society? ---
**Author:** ![freedumb2003](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@freedumb2003](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/freedumb2003)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-criss-angel-a-real-magician/507859/9 "2009-08-27T05:58:50Z")
He has been exposed – just Google his name. The thing where he “walks on water?” – glass bricks in the pool. The girl he “cuts in half?” Shill – she is one of those people with only 1/2 a body. Etc. Etc. I have to agree his illusions seem astounding – but illusions is all they are. ---
**Author:** ![Stan\_Shmenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/94ad74/32.png) [@Stan\_Shmenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stan_Shmenge)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-criss-angel-a-real-magician/507859/10 "2009-08-27T06:04:28Z")
Chris Angel does traditional magic along with some more non traditional stuff. So yes. ---
**Author:** ![statsman1982](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e79b87/32.png) [@statsman1982](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/statsman1982)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 6:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-criss-angel-a-real-magician/507859/11 "2009-08-27T06:11:48Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Real magicians use magical powers to perform feats of magic. > > Magic does not exist. > > Ergo, Criss Angel (whoever he is\*), is **NOT** a real magician. Q.E. D. > > \*The above is the GQ Factual answer. If he’s an entertainer of some sort, such as, perhaps, an illusionist, shouldn’t this be in Cafe Society? Please refer to the title of the thread. I put _real_ in quotes for a reason. Everyone else seems to have understood exactly what I meant. I appreciate your taking the time to report this post to a mod for movement to Cafe Society. You _did_ report it, didn’t you? ---
**Author:** ![statsman1982](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e79b87/32.png) [@statsman1982](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/statsman1982)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 6:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-criss-angel-a-real-magician/507859/12 "2009-08-27T06:13:06Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > We seem to be giving way too many opinion based answers here. It seems the OP is asking > > Would Chris Angel’s illusions work without the use of television cameras? Yes, that is exactly what I am asking. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 6:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-criss-angel-a-real-magician/507859/13 "2009-08-27T06:13:50Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > We seem to be giving way too many opinion based answers here. It seems the OP is asking > > Would Chris Angel’s illusions work without the use of television cameras? Nearly all illusions take advantage of the position of the viewer in relation to the trick, as well as taking advantage of flaws in human perception, encouraging misconceptions, etc. Angel’s tricks that are built for a theater audience will work for a theater audience, but not a person who has full freedom of mobility to walk around and see what’s happening. Same thing here, the illusion is an illusion within a particular sphere of control. Outside of that, no it probably won’t work. ---
**Author:** ![tim314](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim314/32/3468_2.png) [@tim314](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tim314)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 6:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-criss-angel-a-real-magician/507859/14 "2009-08-27T06:16:52Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Real magicians use magical powers to perform feats of magic. > > Magic does not exist. > > Ergo, Criss Angel (whoever he is\*), is **NOT** a real magician. Q.E. D. > > \*The above is the GQ Factual answer. If he’s an entertainer of some sort, such as, perhaps, an illusionist, shouldn’t this be in Cafe Society? There’s a factual question here, but it’s not the one you’re answering. The OP wants to know “Do Criss Angel’s tricks rely on camera tricks and creative editing?” I’ve heard it claimed before (on this board and elsewhere) that the answer to this question is yes, but I have no personal knowledge to back that claim up. Anyway, I agree with the OP that using creative editing to achieve a trick is cheating. ---
**Author:** ![gaffa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e68b1a/32.png) [@gaffa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gaffa)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 7:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-criss-angel-a-real-magician/507859/15 "2009-08-27T07:08:12Z")
My Dad was a magician, and he doesn’t fit my definition of a “real” magician. A _real_ magician can entertain for hours with no equipment other than the stuff you’re likely to have sitting around in your house - a deck of cards, a coin, some cups and a ball. It’s about skill with slight-of-hand & misdirection and the ability to catch and hold the attention of an audience. From what I’ve seen, he’s an illusionist and an escape artist. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 7:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-criss-angel-a-real-magician/507859/16 "2009-08-27T07:27:17Z")
> [@statsman1982](#): > > Please refer to the title of the thread. I put _real_ in quotes for a reason. Everyone else seems to have understood exactly what I meant. I appreciate your taking the time to report this post to a mod for movement to Cafe Society. You _did_ report it, didn’t you? No, I did not, as it happens. I sincerely apologize for the threadshit. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 11:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-criss-angel-a-real-magician/507859/17 "2009-08-27T11:49:43Z")
I can’t say anything about his TV show, but I saw him off-Broadway some years ago, and that was a straight up magician type show. No camera tricks, since I was watching live. Using camera tricks and editing makes it a special effect, it is no longer an illusion or a magic trick. ---
**Author:** ![scareyfaerie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scareyfaerie/32/3135_2.png) [@scareyfaerie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scareyfaerie)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 12:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-criss-angel-a-real-magician/507859/18 "2009-08-27T12:07:25Z")
I saw his “Believe” show in Vegas earlier this year. If there was any genuine “magic” in there aside from sleight-of-hand, then I certainly failed to spot it. The majority of the ‘illusions’ he performed were easily explained and some of the methods were so blatantly obvious it was laughable. ---
**Author:** ![Philster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/13edae/32.png) [@Philster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Philster)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-criss-angel-a-real-magician/507859/19 "2009-08-27T13:18:21Z")
Based on everything I’ve seen of him, he does a variety of things from basic sleight of hand to full blown coordinated TV-driven efforts with specific camera shots and shills. Camera ‘tricks’ ? No. Camera positioning? Yes. David Blaine, on the other hand, did a full-blown camera trick (or edit room trick), when he did a computer-generated levitation. The computer-generated levitation was about two seconds long, but two very painful seconds nonetheless. He actually did a Balducci levitation (look it up), and then got a decent audience reaction, then clipped in a fake levitation that had him a couple of feet off the ground. I have not seen Angel do anything like that. Both of these guys have stunts that must be seen on TV, because some involve a bogus retake when they need to extract some info from a participant. Is that a ‘camera trick’ ? Depends on who you ask. Angel: Camera tricks? No. Camera-dependent tricks? Yes Sleight of hand? Yes. Shills? Yes Typical magic? Yes. Illusions? Yes. Blaine: Camera tricks? Yes Camera-dependent tricks? Yes Sleight of hand? Yes. Shills? Yes Typical magic? Yes. Illusions? Yes. ---
**Author:** ![Iggins](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Iggins](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Iggins)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-criss-angel-a-real-magician/507859/20 "2009-08-27T15:41:57Z")
I read that before Criss got his TV show, he was a pretty well respected stage magician (maybe a couple Magician of the Years?). On the TV show, however, it’s pretty obvious that there are lots of shills and camera tricks used. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-criss-angel-a-real-magician/507859.md?page=2)