# Is criticizing Islam allowed in The BBQ Pit? **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [May 21, 2015, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-criticizing-islam-allowed-in-the-bbq-pit/720536 "2015-05-21T18:34:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Haberdash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Haberdash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Haberdash)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2015, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-criticizing-islam-allowed-in-the-bbq-pit/720536/1 "2015-05-21T18:34:26Z")
In [this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=750455), **Miller** first stepped in and warned me for “hate speech” for discussing the issue of Islam-linked violence, and for illustrating another poster’s problem with using words accurately. Having understood that any actual discussion of Islam was going nowhere, I decided to simply share links to stories on mainstream news sources about current events involving Islam, free speech, and similar issues that had been discussed in the thread, and not offer any personal commentary on them. Today, **Miller** issued another warning for “spamming the board.” I don’t believe I am offering any goods for sale, and I attest that I have no financial stake in any of the news outlets I have linked to and do not stand to benefit from anyone clicking on the links. Is this really just grasping at any available pretext to shut down anti-Islam discussion? ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2015, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-criticizing-islam-allowed-in-the-bbq-pit/720536/2 "2015-05-21T18:46:59Z")
AFAICT you need to add a few comments, and not just a link. Good luck. They will be looking for reasons to ban you. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2015, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-criticizing-islam-allowed-in-the-bbq-pit/720536/3 "2015-05-21T18:50:09Z")
[Here’s](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=18340233#post18340233) a link to the warning (if it is a warning, and not just a note), for those who aren’t interested in digging through that 18 page thread. And, yes, as **Shodan** says, just commentary rather than just links. On the bright side, if this is now considered spam, maybe **BrainGlutton** will get dinged for it too. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2015, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-criticizing-islam-allowed-in-the-bbq-pit/720536/4 "2015-05-21T18:50:39Z")
> [@Haberdash](#): > > In [this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=750455), **Miller** first stepped in and warned me for “hate speech” for discussing the issue of Islam-linked violence, and for illustrating another poster’s problem with using words accurately. Where? Please give a specific link. Because I suspect–let me put this in ATMB terms–your summary is missing a detail or two. > [@](#): > > Having understood that any actual discussion of Islam was going nowhere, I decided to simply share links to stories on mainstream news sources about current events involving Islam, free speech, and similar issues that had been discussed in the thread, and not offer any personal commentary on them. What value do you think this approach has for anyone on earth? > [@](#): > > Today, **Miller** issued another warning for “spamming the board.” If you’re talking about [this](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=18381824&postcount=867), no he didn’t: > [@Miller](#): > > [Moderating] > Haberdash, if you don’t stop spamming the board, your posting privileges will be suspended. > [/Moderating] I mean, yeah, that’s a warning, but it’s not a Warning. > [@](#): > > Is this really just grasping at any available pretext to shut down anti-Islam discussion? Of course not. Lord knows there’s more than enough virulenty anti-Islam people around here, and the mods tolerate them presumably for the same reason that the virulent homophobes and racists are tolerated. If your particular approach is earning censure, look at your style of posting, not the content. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2015, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-criticizing-islam-allowed-in-the-bbq-pit/720536/5 "2015-05-21T18:53:41Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > [Here’s](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=18340233#post18340233) a link to the warning (if it is a warning, and not just a note), for those who aren’t interested in digging through that 18 page thread. > > And, yes, as **Shodan** says, just commentary rather than just links. On the bright side, if this is now considered spam, maybe **BrainGlutton** will get dinged for it too. Huh–that also doesn’t contain the word “warning.” **Miller** , do you issue warnings without using that word in the moderating post? Because if so, my bad on my earlier post. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2015, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-criticizing-islam-allowed-in-the-bbq-pit/720536/6 "2015-05-21T19:07:36Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Huh–that also doesn’t contain the word “warning.” **Miller** , do you issue warnings without using that word in the moderating post? Because if so, my bad on my earlier post. Looking at the infraction system, **Miller** did not issue an official warning for either of those posts. **Haberdash** has not received a warning for anything in that thread. This said, the remark asking the another poster whether he wanted to murder him looks an awful lot like trolling to me. If **Haberdash** was not warned for that, in my book he got off lightly. ---
**Author:** ![engineer\_comp\_geek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/engineer_comp_geek/32/504_2.png) [@engineer\_comp\_geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/engineer_comp_geek)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2015, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-criticizing-islam-allowed-in-the-bbq-pit/720536/7 "2015-05-21T19:10:05Z")
There’s no warning to you from Miller in that thread, or any other thread. There is an instruction to you regarding the “don’t shoot” comment you made. It is not an official warning. I don’t see how you can possibly refer to that comment as “discussing the issue of Islam-linked violence”. I don’t moderate the Pit and don’t even participate there, but even I understand why that comment was over the line. If you don’t understand what is unacceptable about that particular comment, then maybe you shouldn’t post at all on this topic on the SDMB. As for the links, you posted a rather excessive number of links in that thread with very little (if any) comment of your own for most of them. Even though you weren’t benefiting financially from the links, that is basically a form of spamming. If you have a point to make, then you should make the point, not just make post after post containing nothing but a link and a quote. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2015, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-criticizing-islam-allowed-in-the-bbq-pit/720536/8 "2015-05-21T19:22:33Z")
I had to go back \*\*\*fourteen \*\*\*posts of **Haberdash** ’s in that thread to find any original content (and that was literally just an introductory line); the following thirteen posts were just links and excerpts with no clarity on why those particular stories were posted. They weren’t even consistent in their portrayals of Islam, let alone serving as evidence for whatever argument was intending to be made. Looks like “spamming” to me - not in the sense of selling something but in the sense of repetitive posting of material with no intent to engage in discussion about it. People who C&P messages across dozens of messageboards and never come back to talk about them also get banned from here, even when they’re not selling anything - the practice drags the whole board down regardless of content. (For that matter, consider **Pjen** who actually wrote posts but filled entire threads all on his/her own. That didn’t end well either.) ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2015, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-criticizing-islam-allowed-in-the-bbq-pit/720536/9 "2015-05-21T19:35:29Z")
**Stringbean** (who launched the thread) and **truthSeeker2** have both been criticizing Islam at least as heavily as the OP (example: “unadulterated poison” as sole post content), and the Mods haven’t seen any reason to intervene in their posts. So, I think the OP has his answer, if he is willing to listen. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2015, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-criticizing-islam-allowed-in-the-bbq-pit/720536/10 "2015-05-21T20:46:31Z")
As ECG stated you have not been warned by Miller or any other mod recently. If it was an official warning you would get notified. If you disregard mod instructions I’m sure you will get warned. You usually have to work pretty hard to get a warning in the Pit. So I guess it’s an accomplishment of a sort. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2015, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-criticizing-islam-allowed-in-the-bbq-pit/720536/11 "2015-05-21T21:25:19Z")
Lemme put in a somewhat vague defense of **Haberdash** for what he’s been doing in that thread. You’ve seen and read about gag orders. Judges issue gag orders. Or some government agency makes a controversial rule that rural clinics in Africa can’t discuss birth control if they receive any funding from whatever foreign aid program. Or doctors in Florida can’t ask patients if they have a gun in the home. Gag orders of one sort or another. And you have seen how some people, who object to gag orders, stage protests. They show up wearing tape over their mouths. They don’t have to say anything. Just show up wearing an exaggerated caricature of a gag on their face, and they are making their point. It’s just one form of expression. That’s just what **Haberdash** is doing there. He said so explicitly. He felt he was being gagged for the statements he was making. So he took up the practice of posting all those links and quoted excerpts, with the intention that they speak for themselves, while refraining from adding his own commentary. He is protesting by gagging his keyboard. One can argue separately whether his statements are out-of-bounds even for the Pit. But now he feels is not only gagged, but double-gagged for protesting his gagging. In every venue where discussion is held, no matter how open-minded it claims to be, there is some certain level of orthodoxy about what may be discussed. Transgress that, and you find yourself gagged. Question the gagging, and you’re “Just Asking Questio\”. To some degree, the SDMB is no different. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2015, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-criticizing-islam-allowed-in-the-bbq-pit/720536/12 "2015-05-21T21:48:40Z")
> [@Senegoid](#): > > He felt he was being gagged for the statements he was making. Did **Miller** tell him to refrain from making other statements other than the specific one he was moderated for? **Haberdash** has 210 posts in that thread, more than anyone else. Seems like he’s had plenty of opportunity to make his points. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2015, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-criticizing-islam-allowed-in-the-bbq-pit/720536/13 "2015-05-21T23:05:35Z")
> [@Haberdash](#): > > In [this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=750455), **Miller** first stepped in and warned me for “hate speech” for discussing the issue of Islam-linked violence, and for illustrating another poster’s problem with using words accurately. This is inaccurate. You were not issued a warning in that thread, nor were you moderated for “discussing the issue of Islam-linked violence,” nor were you moderated for, “illustrating another poster’s problem with using words accurately.” You were moderated for prefacing every reply to a Muslim poster with, “Don’t shoot,” implying that they were a violent terrorist on no other grounds than the fact that she belongs to a religion you dislike. > [@](#): > > Having understood that any actual discussion of Islam was going nowhere, I decided to simply share links to stories on mainstream news sources about current events involving Islam, free speech, and similar issues that had been discussed in the thread, and not offer any personal commentary on them. > > Today, **Miller** issued another warning for “spamming the board.” I don’t believe I am offering any goods for sale, and I attest that I have no financial stake in any of the news outlets I have linked to and do not stand to benefit from anyone clicking on the links. The term “spam” does not necessarily refer to advertising, although that is the primary motivation for most spam messages. But the term is also commonly used to refer to people repeatedly promoting their pet political or social causes without regard to the appropriateness of the forum, or the expectations of behavior therein. The SDMB is a debate board. Posters here are expected to interact with other posters, and not just treat it like a personal blog. In the future, if you feel a particular thread is not going anywhere, the proper response is to stop participating in the thread, and not attempt to overwhelm it by constant repetition of the same basic theme. > [@](#): > > Is this really just grasping at any available pretext to shut down anti-Islam discussion? The thread in question remains open, with over eight hundred and fifty posts. And while your position was, mercifully, in the minority, you were far from the only person pushing hard-line anti-Islamism in that thread. You were, however, the only person who drew any moderator attention. ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2015, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-criticizing-islam-allowed-in-the-bbq-pit/720536/14 "2015-05-22T00:09:16Z")
**Haberdash** may feel he is being gagged, silenced for his opinions being anti-Muslim and therefore somehow off limits, but he is wrong. What happened is he repeatedly insinuated another poster was threatening him, and when moderated over that, resorted to spamming by posting links without commentary. ---
**Author:** ![Haberdash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Haberdash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Haberdash)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2015, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-criticizing-islam-allowed-in-the-bbq-pit/720536/15 "2015-05-22T15:09:31Z")
I was in the midst of calling out the poster for using “free speech” to include “destroying posters that I don’t like.” Because the poster then began discussing the Garland, Texas attempted murder, I then used murder as an example of another word that she also may not be using in the same way as the other posters in the thread. You didn’t care about my “don’t shoot” joke until that happened so you could quote it out of context, and you were moderating a thread in which you were engaged as a poster. If “insinuating that Muslims are violent” is out of bounds and any discussion of whether a Muslim poster is using words correctly constitutes “insinuating that another poster is threatening me” then I guess I have my answer as to whether criticism of Islam is allowed. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2015, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-criticizing-islam-allowed-in-the-bbq-pit/720536/16 "2015-05-22T15:33:17Z")
That post is pretty incoherent. Links might possibly help me understand it, but I suspect they’d also undermine the case you believe you’re making. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2015, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-criticizing-islam-allowed-in-the-bbq-pit/720536/17 "2015-05-22T15:45:18Z")
In what way was responding to a Muslim poster with “Don’t shoot!” in every single response a “joke”? ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2015, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-criticizing-islam-allowed-in-the-bbq-pit/720536/18 "2015-05-22T15:50:30Z")
It occurs to me that if, despite everything, your takeaway is that you’re not allowed to say shitty things about Islam in the pit, I’m okay with that. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2015, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-criticizing-islam-allowed-in-the-bbq-pit/720536/19 "2015-05-22T16:44:36Z")
So I guess that’s a “no” on the “willing to listen” part. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2015, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-criticizing-islam-allowed-in-the-bbq-pit/720536/20 "2015-05-22T17:49:16Z")
Apologies for the double post. > [@Haberdash](#): > > If “insinuating that Muslims are violent” is out of bounds and any discussion of whether a Muslim poster is using words correctly constitutes “insinuating that another poster is threatening me” then I guess I have my answer as to whether criticism of Islam is allowed. Seems a bit more than insinuation: [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=18340194&postcount=680](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=18340194&postcount=680) Relevant quote: [Quote=Haberdash] How do I know that you don’t define “calling you out on your bullshit” to include murdering me? [/Quote] That’s after at least a half-dozen posts addressing the same poster, all leading off with “Don’t shoot!” [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-criticizing-islam-allowed-in-the-bbq-pit/720536.md?page=2)