# Is "Cultural Marxism" a real thing? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 8, 2017, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cultural-marxism-a-real-thing/801026 "2017-11-08T05:21:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![gatorslap](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gatorslap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gatorslap)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2017, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cultural-marxism-a-real-thing/801026/1 "2017-11-08T05:21:58Z")
It seems to be the right’s boogeyman du jour, at least in some circles. Or rather, has been for a little while now. But what are they actually talking about? I’m moderately familiar with the works of Marx and the history of Marxism, and I know of no such thing as “Cultural Marxism”. A cursory glance tells me it has something to do with the Frankfurt School and Critical Theory, which I’m not very familiar with. Do these arcane academic strands of thought really have an outsized influence on “the left” or some subset of it? Is “Cultural Marxism” even a coherent term referring to a real thing, whether or not the “Marxist” part is accurate? Edit: I haven’t found much at all on this subject that’s remotely neutral. It seems almost every discussion of “Cultural Marxism” is either a right-wing piece talking about how terrible it is, or a left-wing piece claiming it’s a false premise. ---
**Author:** ![snfaulkner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snfaulkner/32/433_2.png) [@snfaulkner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snfaulkner)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2017, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cultural-marxism-a-real-thing/801026/2 "2017-11-08T05:24:10Z")
From the [raionalwiki](https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Cultural_Marxism)on the subject: > [@](#): > > “Cultural Marxism?” What the holy hell are you talking about? > —Any liberal when exposed to the term for the first time ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2017, 6:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cultural-marxism-a-real-thing/801026/3 "2017-11-08T06:59:50Z")
It’s probably a real thing in the sense that somebody somewhere used the term. It was probably in some academic journal read by twelve people. But, no, it’s not a thing anyone cares about or is talking about in the American political mainstream. Most people hadn’t even heard of it until conservatives started protesting against it. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2017, 7:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cultural-marxism-a-real-thing/801026/4 "2017-11-08T07:13:41Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > It’s probably a real thing in the sense that somebody somewhere used the term. You are correct! Somebody [somewhere](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=611132) used the term. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![gatorslap](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gatorslap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gatorslap)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2017, 7:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cultural-marxism-a-real-thing/801026/5 "2017-11-08T07:34:28Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > You are correct! Somebody [somewhere](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=611132) used the term. 🙂 That thread is… interesting, but, even though it’s ostensibly _about_ “Cultural Marxism”, it doesn’t really provide any answers. If anything I’m a little more confused. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2017, 8:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cultural-marxism-a-real-thing/801026/6 "2017-11-08T08:28:50Z")
> [@gatorslap](#): > > That thread is… interesting, but, even though it’s ostensibly _about_ “Cultural Marxism”, it doesn’t really provide any answers. If anything I’m a little more confused. I think that might tell you all you need to know. If you can’t figure out what it is after reading a 5 page thread, what conclusion would you draw? Of course you can always try [here.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frankfurt_School#Cultural_Marxism_conspiracy_theory) I’ll quote the first sentence for you: > [@](#): > > “'Cultural Marxism” in modern political parlance refers to a conspiracy theory which sees the Frankfurt School as part of an ongoing movement to take over and destroy Western society. Does that clear things up? If not read further, and you’ll see it’s all about _ **THE JEWS!!** _ :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2017, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cultural-marxism-a-real-thing/801026/7 "2017-11-08T13:10:04Z")
> [@](#): > > Does that clear things up? If not read further, and you’ll see it’s all about \\THE JEWS!! Well, of course. I think history has taught us that the Jews have always prospered under Marxist regimes. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2017, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cultural-marxism-a-real-thing/801026/8 "2017-11-08T13:11:44Z")
I don’t think there’s any serious disagreement that Gramsci was a cultural Marxist, that he was extremely influential within Marxism, and that he continues to be studied by political scientists today. Nor do I think there’s much disagreement with the basic insight that cultural institutions can be politically influential, or the observation that people in American cultural institutions mostly (but certainly not uniformly) lean left and would like to use those institutions to move our society farther left. What’s off the rails is any notion of concerted or conspiratorial action, or any suggestion that anyone’s goal is a social model that qualifies as Marxist. ---
**Author:** ![WilyQuixote](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f9ae1b/32.png) [@WilyQuixote](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WilyQuixote)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2017, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cultural-marxism-a-real-thing/801026/9 "2017-11-08T13:37:35Z")
**OP,** do a Google image search on “cultural marxism”. You may find the results to be enlightening. **DO NOT** do this on a work PC; the results will absolutely not be SFW. ---
**Author:** ![WilyQuixote](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f9ae1b/32.png) [@WilyQuixote](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WilyQuixote)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2017, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cultural-marxism-a-real-thing/801026/10 "2017-11-08T13:52:57Z")
> [@Tom\_Tildrum](#): > > I don’t think there’s any serious disagreement that Gramsci was a cultural Marxist, that he was extremely influential within Marxism, and that he continues to be studied by political scientists today. Nor do I think there’s much disagreement with the basic insight that cultural institutions can be politically influential, or the observation that people in American cultural institutions mostly (but certainly not uniformly) lean left and would like to use those institutions to move our society farther left. > > What’s off the rails is any notion of concerted or conspiratorial action, or any suggestion that anyone’s goal is a social model that qualifies as Marxist. My knowledge of Marxism is rusty, but I recall Gramsci being best known for his (Marxist) theory of cultural hegemony about how the bourgeoisie maintain power in capitalist societies through cultural institutions, not related to what is called “cultural marxism”. AFAIK, this is different from the cultural marxism school of thought centred around Goethe University in Frankfurt, including theorists such as Marcuse and Adorno. ---
**Author:** ![orcenio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/orcenio/32/1036_2.png) [@orcenio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/orcenio)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2017, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cultural-marxism-a-real-thing/801026/11 "2017-11-08T15:11:41Z")
We, sadly, can’t prove the existence of **Cultural Marxism** because no one has (to date) provided tangible evidence of an actual **Cultural Marxist**. I have yet to see a single society, group, or gathering of self-proclaimed **Cultural Marxists** organizing or advocating such views as purported to them. Baring this, we must place our trust in their existence as told by the fleeting sightings experienced by alt-right wackjobs who encounter **Cultural Marxists** daily in many political/news forums. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2017, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cultural-marxism-a-real-thing/801026/12 "2017-11-08T15:21:33Z")
> [@snfaulkner](#): > > From the [raionalwiki](https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Cultural_Marxism)on the subject: > > > [@](#): > > > > “Cultural Marxism?” What the holy hell are you talking about? > > —Any liberal when exposed to the term for the first time Pretty much. See also: “Saul _who_?” ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2017, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cultural-marxism-a-real-thing/801026/13 "2017-11-08T15:25:58Z")
> [@orcenio](#): > > We, sadly, can’t prove the existence of **Cultural Marxism** because no one has (to date) provided tangible evidence of an actual **Cultural Marxist**. I have yet to see a single society, group, or gathering of self-proclaimed **Cultural Marxists** organizing or advocating such views as purported to them. The actual Cultural Marxists are all dead. It was a minor academic movement in the early twentieth century. ---
**Author:** ![orcenio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/orcenio/32/1036_2.png) [@orcenio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/orcenio)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2017, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cultural-marxism-a-real-thing/801026/14 "2017-11-08T15:38:31Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > The actual Cultural Marxists are all dead. It was a minor academic movement in the early twentieth century. Makes sense. I’ve only been familiar with Cultural Marxism in its present day usage, as a spook story that alt-right wackjobs tell each other. Cultural Marxists have always held a similar position to **Bigfoot** , **Nessie** , and ‘ **alien visitors** ’. Its interesting to know that the reality of it is more akin to **living dinosaur** sightings instead. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2017, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cultural-marxism-a-real-thing/801026/15 "2017-11-08T15:42:41Z")
The Frankfurt School was a group of revisionist Marxists at the University of Frankfurt in the 1930s, who tried to use Marxist theory to analyze society and culture. This approach is generally known as “critical theory”, and it, as well as Gramsci’s work, was sometimes called "cultural Marxism ", because they’re attempts to apply Marxist theory to culture. Critical theory is fairly influential in academic circles, contributing to post modernism and a lot of modern linguistic and communication theory, but outside of academics, you won’t notice it much. Unfortunately, some on the right wing have used the term to refer to a theory that there’s some plot to secretly intoduce communist and Marxist thought and ideas into our culture by the media and influential figures. That needs to be distinguished from actual historical cultural marxism, which was strictly an analytical method; a way to adapt Marxist theory to cultural critique and Freudian thought. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2017, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cultural-marxism-a-real-thing/801026/16 "2017-11-08T16:19:14Z")
This is my understanding Economic Marxism divides society into the ruling class and the exploiting class, and encourages rebellion by the exploited class even if that requires violence, crime or authoritarianism. Cultural Marxism is the belief that society is divided into the ruling class and mistreated class and calls for social upheaval on behalf of the exploited and mistreated classes (gays, racial minorities, religious minorities,) When communists tried to develop a foothold in the US, they tended to reach out to the exploited class (communists did anti lynching work in the South for example). Basically it’s egalitarianism. However I think people who use the phrase cultural Marxism worry that people pushing egalitarianism will use violence and authoritarian strategies to push egalitarianism. Attacking speakers or anyone with a different opinion,Drowning them out if they give a speech. Some people like Jordan Peterson claim that the groups the cultural Marxists claim to represent (transgendered for example) don’t actually feel represented by them. He claims the cultural Marxists use them as a tool to upend the social system. That’s my understanding. It’s authoritarian egalitarianism in the eyes of its critics. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2017, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cultural-marxism-a-real-thing/801026/17 "2017-11-08T16:51:18Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > Critical theory is fairly influential in academic circles, contributing to post modernism and a lot of modern linguistic and communication theory, but outside of academics, you won’t notice it much. For example, critical legal study is a lens through which academics determine (or perhaps predetermine) whether legal institutions are a tool of the oppressive capitalist oligarchs. So they might call for reforms that make the playing field more even in the civil justice system, since the present system (arguably) benefits owners of capital at the expense of owners of labor. We’re talking about academics, not jurists. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2017, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cultural-marxism-a-real-thing/801026/18 "2017-11-08T18:09:20Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > Pretty much. > > See also: “Saul _who_?” Yes! I came in here to mention that exactly. Newt Gingrich was talking about how all liberals follow Saul Alinsky and his name was showing up in conservative posts here and elsewhere, and I was all “Saul who?” I think there was something about Obama’s anti-colonial or Kenyan something that was supposed to be all meaningful that I didn’t get at all. Cultural Marxism seems to be the same thing – some sort of conservative in-group term for some way that liberals are bad. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2017, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cultural-marxism-a-real-thing/801026/19 "2017-11-08T18:34:01Z")
In the conserv-o-sphere, “Marxism” is a sophistry that signifies a “don’t-like thing”. “Cultural Marxism” is how they express dismay over people not worshipping white history like they did in the old days. ---
**Author:** ![rat\_avatar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rat_avatar/32/255_2.png) [@rat\_avatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rat_avatar)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2017, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cultural-marxism-a-real-thing/801026/20 "2017-11-08T19:18:15Z")
It is a dog whistle, fascism in Europe was enabled by the fictitious belief in the nordic race and a fear of Communism. To quote ‘The True Believer: Thoughts On The Nature Of Mass Movements’ > [@](#): > > “All mass movements are competitive” and perceive the supply of converts as zero-sum; and “all mass movements are interchangeable” Both marxism and fascism require an ‘enemy’ as most mass movement do. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cultural-marxism-a-real-thing/801026.md?page=2)