# Is cupping really an ancient Chinese practice? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 9, 2016, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cupping-really-an-ancient-chinese-practice/762271 "2016-08-09T19:35:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2016, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cupping-really-an-ancient-chinese-practice/762271/1 "2016-08-09T19:35:49Z")
In most of the stories about Michael Phelps and “cupping,” the writers off-handedly refer to cupping as an “ancient Chinese practice.” Is it, though? I know Egyptians practiced cupping over 3,000 years ago. Greeks and Romans also practiced cupping (and I assume they picked it up from the Egyptians). Medieval Europeans used cupping to draw “ill humors” from the body, and physicians in the US continued to use cupping right up into the 19th century. Did the ancient Chinese also practiced cupping? (If so, I can find no actual evidence of that with my meager Google skills. Where are the artifacts? I can find pictures of ancient Egyptian cups made of bronze but no pictures of ancent Chinese cupping equipment.) Or, as I suspect might be the case, did the Chinese pick up the practice in more recent times from Western travelers? Anyone know the answer? ---
**Author:** ![D18](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c57346/32.png) [@D18](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D18)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2016, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cupping-really-an-ancient-chinese-practice/762271/2 "2016-08-09T22:56:08Z")
In the spirit of overcoming (my own) ignorance: do I dare google Micheal Phelps and cupping to figure out what the hell you’re asking about? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![beowulff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beowulff/32/542_2.png) [@beowulff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beowulff)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2016, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cupping-really-an-ancient-chinese-practice/762271/3 "2016-08-09T22:58:00Z")
> [@D18](#): > > In the spirit of overcoming (my own) ignorance: do I dare google Micheal Phelps and cupping to figure out what the hell you’re asking about? :dubious: Slow down, I see spots! (Should be SFW, but you never know). ---
**Author:** ![drachillix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/48db29/32.png) [@drachillix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drachillix)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2016, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cupping-really-an-ancient-chinese-practice/762271/4 "2016-08-09T23:03:18Z")
> **[Cupping therapy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cupping_therapy)** > > Cupping therapy is a form of alternative medicine in which a local suction is created on the skin with the application of heated cups. Its practice mainly occurs in Asia but also in Eastern Europe, the Middle East, and Latin America. Cupping has been characterized as a pseudoscience and its practice as quackery. > Cupping practitioners attempt to use cupping therapy for a wide array of medical conditions including fevers, chronic low back pain, poor appetite, indigestion, high blood pressure, acne... ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2016, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cupping-really-an-ancient-chinese-practice/762271/5 "2016-08-09T23:47:40Z")
The report on NPR yesterday said it was controversial whether it originated in China or in Egypt. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2016, 6:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cupping-really-an-ancient-chinese-practice/762271/6 "2016-08-10T06:29:01Z")
There is no controversy over the fact that it is bollocks. There is no plausible physical effect but of course athletes are just as susceptible to the placebo effect as mere mortals (if not more so). I think the last Olympics and Beijing had that KT tape as the fad de jour and that had only slightly more and limited legitimacy to it. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2016, 8:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cupping-really-an-ancient-chinese-practice/762271/7 "2016-08-10T08:09:59Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > I think the last Olympics and Beijing had that KT tape as the fad de jour and that had only slightly more and limited legitimacy to it. My physical therapist applied KT tape when I injured a hamstring, and the difference was like night and day. I can’t speak as to whether it improves performance, but it does mitigate injury. ---
**Author:** ![bob\_2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bob_2/32/3341_2.png) [@bob\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bob_2)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2016, 8:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cupping-really-an-ancient-chinese-practice/762271/8 "2016-08-10T08:19:48Z")
I remember it being suggested as a (painful) way of draining a boil. A wide necked bottle, such as a milk bottle, would be warmed and the neck clapped over the boil. Atmospheric pressure would do the rest. ---
**Author:** ![Banksiaman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banksiaman/32/3334_2.png) [@Banksiaman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banksiaman)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2016, 8:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cupping-really-an-ancient-chinese-practice/762271/9 "2016-08-10T08:51:43Z")
Leaving aside the question of who invented it, the likely reason the Chinese connection is cited is because [in my town, and therefore the world] there are still Chinese traditional medicine places you can go to for all your cupping needs, plus the occasional mogwai if you’re lucky. In my town [and etc] there are no similar ancient Egyptian or Roman emporia to buy that sort of stuff from. George Orwell wrote about being cupped in a Parisian hospital. ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2016, 9:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cupping-really-an-ancient-chinese-practice/762271/10 "2016-08-10T09:10:14Z")
> [@Banksiaman](#): > > George Orwell wrote about being cupped in a Parisian hospital. Oh well… in France you get a suppository for a headache. ---
**Author:** ![Balthisar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/balthisar/32/2825_2.png) [@Balthisar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balthisar)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2016, 12:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cupping-really-an-ancient-chinese-practice/762271/11 "2016-08-10T12:29:46Z")
> [@Banksiaman](#): > > Leaving aside the question of who invented it, the likely reason the Chinese connection is cited is because [in my town, and therefore the world] there are still Chinese traditional medicine places you can go to for all your cupping needs, plus the occasional mogwai if you’re lucky. Mogwai: 😃 All the same, cupping is extremely common in China. It’s part of the default treatment if you see a TCM physician, and it’s offered by nearly every body therapy (massage) place. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2016, 12:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cupping-really-an-ancient-chinese-practice/762271/12 "2016-08-10T12:32:52Z")
_“(Cupping is) a practice attributed to traditional Chinese medicine that is actually an ancient practice that seems to have been independently thought up in multiple cultures, such as the ancient Egyptians. Basically, cupping therapy is a near-universal practice dating back at least 3,500 years that was commonly practiced until at least the 1800s. Not surprisingly, the very ancientness of the practice is frequently used by advocates of cupping to argue for its efficacy, but I tend to like to turn that argument around and point out that…it’s very telling that a practice that’s been around some 3,500 years has so little evidence for its efficacy. That’s plenty of time to prove a treatment works.”_ > **[My last word (I hope): Michael Phelps, cupping, and "integrative medicine" |...](https://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2016/08/10/my-last-word-i-hope-michael-phelps-cupping-and-integrative-medicine)** > > As I mentioned yesterday, there are news events involving medicine (more specifically pseudoscience in medicine) that are so ubiquitous and irritating that they’re enough to bring me briefly out of my vacation to bang out a quick post. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2016, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cupping-really-an-ancient-chinese-practice/762271/13 "2016-08-10T12:47:36Z")
Don’t worry, [that’s how they do pants!](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fANwTBK3Ylg) ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2016, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cupping-really-an-ancient-chinese-practice/762271/14 "2016-08-10T14:30:13Z")
> [@Balthisar](#): > > Mogwai: 😃 > > All the same, cupping is extremely common in China. It’s part of the default treatment if you see a TCM physician, and it’s offered by nearly every body therapy (massage) place. Also in Vietnam, where I first saw it in the 60s. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2016, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cupping-really-an-ancient-chinese-practice/762271/15 "2016-08-10T14:33:47Z")
The Wikipedia article has gone through a frenzy of editing in recent days. The first time I looked, it had a line about “ancient Chinese practice” with no citation and a “citation needed” note from Wiki. Now it says this: > [@](#): > > In China, the earliest use of cupping that is recorded is from the famous Taoist alchemist and herbalist, Ge Hong (281–341 A.D.). ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2016, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cupping-really-an-ancient-chinese-practice/762271/16 "2016-08-10T15:14:13Z")
Man, people will fall for anything, won’t they? How can 21st century people believe in woo? ---
**Author:** ![WOOKINPANUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wookinpanub/32/132_2.png) [@WOOKINPANUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WOOKINPANUB)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2016, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cupping-really-an-ancient-chinese-practice/762271/17 "2016-08-10T15:17:32Z")
> [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > Don’t worry, [that’s how they do pants!](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fANwTBK3Ylg) Hee, that’s exactly what I thought of when I saw the thread title, except I said (in my mind) “yes, yes it is. IN PRISON!” I don’t know if it’s bollocks or not but I have a friend who is into all manner of homeopathic medicine and she comes into the office every week with these alarming purple marks on her (not visible to everyone; she shows them to me) and swears it’s helping her. Perhaps it is a placebo but I know she’s not a liar or a crackpot and if it makes her feel better, I say great. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2016, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cupping-really-an-ancient-chinese-practice/762271/18 "2016-08-10T15:27:24Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > Man, people will fall for anything, won’t they? > > How can 21st century people believe in woo? It’s not _obvious_ woo, to me anyway: it’s conceivable that there’s some mechanism by which it produces at least some of the results it’s claimed to produce, like easing pain. From [one recent article](http://www.cnn.com/2016/08/08/health/cupping-olympics-red-circles/index.html): > [@](#): > > In previous studies, cupping has been used for treating cancer pain and lower back pain. In both of the randomized clinical trials, groups that received the cupping therapy [reported more favorable effects in pain relief](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3136528/). > > But this is just two trials with small sample sizes, so the researchers wrote in 2011 that it’s hard to “draw firm conclusions” based on limited data, in a review published in Evidence-Based Complementary and Alternative Medicine. It’d be hard to test in a way that controls for the placebo effect. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2016, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cupping-really-an-ancient-chinese-practice/762271/19 "2016-08-10T15:55:00Z")
In my day, they called them hickeys. Said to increase sexual arousal. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![moojja](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e5b9ba/32.png) [@moojja](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/moojja)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2016, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cupping-really-an-ancient-chinese-practice/762271/20 "2016-08-10T16:44:25Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > Man, people will fall for anything, won’t they? > > How can 21st century people believe in woo? B/c placebo effect is really useful. If you can trick your mind to ignore the pain that’s better than any pain medication. And if it release some of the stress faced by the athletes, that’s also really helpful during performance. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-cupping-really-an-ancient-chinese-practice/762271.md?page=2)