# Is daughter with same name as mother called Jr.? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 14, 2005, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-daughter-with-same-name-as-mother-called-jr/284661 "2005-01-14T03:58:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![DaveRaver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/daveraver/32/1078_2.png) [@DaveRaver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DaveRaver)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2005, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-daughter-with-same-name-as-mother-called-jr/284661/1 "2005-01-14T03:58:34Z")
Or can only males be called Jr.? Is there a seperate designation for a female named after her mother? ---
**Author:** ![Reeder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Reeder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reeder)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2005, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-daughter-with-same-name-as-mother-called-jr/284661/2 "2005-01-14T04:03:59Z")
How many women called Jr have you heard of? ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2005, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-daughter-with-same-name-as-mother-called-jr/284661/3 "2005-01-14T04:07:54Z")
We have a neighbor named Helen, with a daughter namend Helen whom we refer to as “Helen Jr.” Does that count? ---
**Author:** ![Speaker\_for\_the\_Dead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c77e96/32.png) [@Speaker\_for\_the\_Dead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Speaker_for_the_Dead)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2005, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-daughter-with-same-name-as-mother-called-jr/284661/4 "2005-01-14T04:17:24Z")
My brother made the interesting point that traditionally a man carries on the family name, while a woman doesn’t. “Joe Son Jr.” will always be Joe Son Jr., but Jane Daughter Jr. could become Jane Husband Jr., which would no longer make sense. ---
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2005, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-daughter-with-same-name-as-mother-called-jr/284661/5 "2005-01-14T04:58:58Z")
I remember reading a story in school years ago that was set in Puritan New England. (I think it was about the Salem Witchcraft Trials.) The mother was named Sarah, and there were a couple of girls, one of whom was Sarah Jr. It struck me as being extremely odd, which is probably why I remember it after all these years. ---
**Author:** ![Nametag](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nametag/32/406_2.png) [@Nametag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nametag)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2005, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-daughter-with-same-name-as-mother-called-jr/284661/6 "2005-01-14T05:01:38Z")
The daughter of Agrippina was Agrippina minor… ---
**Author:** ![pokey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ebca7d/32.png) [@pokey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pokey)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2005, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-daughter-with-same-name-as-mother-called-jr/284661/7 "2005-01-14T05:02:30Z")
I think Joan Crawford named Christina Joan Crawford Junior but later changed her mind. ---
**Author:** ![Mehitabel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8797f3/32.png) [@Mehitabel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mehitabel)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2005, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-daughter-with-same-name-as-mother-called-jr/284661/8 "2005-01-14T05:30:09Z")
Not in my family. Mary was the mother of Mary my mother. 😃 However, nicknames and titles told the two apart pretty easily; Mom was ‘Libby’ because she had a middle name of Elizabeth, unlike her mother who had no middle name at all but a long Gaelic string of ancestral names in place of it. Also, one was Mary and one was Mom and later Grandma. I know lots of other girls named after their mothers or aunts and none of them use Junior. ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2005, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-daughter-with-same-name-as-mother-called-jr/284661/9 "2005-01-14T05:50:14Z")
Perhaps some use a diminuitive for the daughter if there is one available. Elizabeth and Lisa, or Margaret and Peggy. ---
**Author:** ![Trailer\_Park\_Casanova](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8baadc/32.png) [@Trailer\_Park\_Casanova](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trailer_Park_Casanova)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2005, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-daughter-with-same-name-as-mother-called-jr/284661/10 "2005-01-14T12:57:53Z")
If the Junior doesn’t get hung on the daughter then; Doesn’t the mothers title change like Dame or something along that line denoting the senior? I think the denotation lies on the moms title, not the daughter. I think in India, they use a red dot on the forehead which is also used to tell when the coffees done. Seriuosly, that’s a good question. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2005, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-daughter-with-same-name-as-mother-called-jr/284661/11 "2005-01-14T14:39:50Z")
Are you talking about “standard” usage or what’s actually on a birth certificate? In ordinary usage, I’ve heard daughters with the same name refered to as “junior” – of course I’ve also heard them refered to as “little” and I don’t think that’s used in any geneology book. As for what goes on a birth certificate, I doubt if the county registrar cares much one way or the other. ---
**Author:** ![Cliffy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/59ef9b/32.png) [@Cliffy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cliffy)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2005, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-daughter-with-same-name-as-mother-called-jr/284661/12 "2005-01-14T15:31:27Z")
It’s just a convention. Typically, men have been juniors and women aren’t. (I agree with **Speaker** that this probably has to do with the fact that women don’t carry on the family name.) However, you can name your kid anything you damn well please and if you want to name her Jr., I ain’t gonna stop you. –Cliffy ---
**Author:** ![aahala](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a88e4f/32.png) [@aahala](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aahala)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2005, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-daughter-with-same-name-as-mother-called-jr/284661/13 "2005-01-14T16:01:32Z")
Boxer George Foreman doesn’t use junior in naming his sons OR his daughters. He has a number of sons(four I think), named George, a daughter named George and and a daughter named something like Georgina.😃 ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2005, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-daughter-with-same-name-as-mother-called-jr/284661/14 "2005-01-14T16:13:42Z")
I have seen one book in which the daughter sharing her mother’s name was “Junior” – but it was SF, with a society in which the author intentionally postulated different family customs (e.g., the rule was that boys and girls could not speak to each other from puberty until formal courtship, and then only to one’s intended). I have heard the French phrases _la vieuf_ and _la jeune_ (“the older” and “the younger”) used to distinguish same-named mother and daughter, in referencing the two of them separately in the same utterance – and I don’t guarantee the feminizations of the adjectives are accurate; it’s typing what was orally heard. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2005, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-daughter-with-same-name-as-mother-called-jr/284661/15 "2005-01-14T16:49:20Z")
In Spanish, since we get both a paternal and maternal lastname, it is very hard to get exactly the same name for parent and child. So no Jr. or Sr. or _gasp_ III. But “Liz the mother”/“Liz the daughter” (Isabel madre, Isabel hija) or “Joe father”/“Joe son” (José padre, José hijo) is common if they aren’t know by different nicks. Of course, the appearance of a III would just graduate “Liz mom” to “Liz grandmom” and “Liz daughter” to “Liz mom”… and note that usually mother and daughter won’t even have the same first lastname 😃 ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2005, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-daughter-with-same-name-as-mother-called-jr/284661/16 "2005-01-14T19:00:10Z")
> [@Trailer Park Casanova](#): > > I think in India, they use a red dot on the forehead which is also used to tell when the coffees done. What appears to you to be humor is seen by most as a racist remark that doesn’t belong in GQ. Don’t do this kind of thing again. Think twice, post once. **samclem** GQ moderator ---
**Author:** ![BrotherCadfael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2005, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-daughter-with-same-name-as-mother-called-jr/284661/17 "2005-01-14T19:25:57Z")
> [@Nametag](#): > > The daughter of Agrippina was Agrippina minor… I believe she was also called Agrippinilla until her mother died… ---
**Author:** ![AllShookDown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d9b06d/32.png) [@AllShookDown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AllShookDown)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2005, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-daughter-with-same-name-as-mother-called-jr/284661/18 "2005-01-14T20:18:10Z")
One of my great-great grandmothers, whose name was Mary Magdalena, named three of her five daughters Mary. Mary Magdalena (aunt Lena), Mary Emma (aunt Emma), and Mary Louisa (she lived only 5 days). Can you say “German Catholics?” ---
**Author:** ![YWalker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/6f9a4e/32.png) [@YWalker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YWalker)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2005, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-daughter-with-same-name-as-mother-called-jr/284661/19 "2005-01-15T00:47:10Z")
Normally, a male is named Junior only if he has the father’s complete name — John David Smith and John David Smith, Jr. If he names the son John William, then the younger John is not a Junior. So, say I was born Mary Susan Williams. When I marry John Smith, I change my name to Mary Williams Smith (or Mary Susan Williams Smith.) If I name my daughter Mary Susan, then she is Mary Susan Smith, while I am still Mary Williams Smith, so there’s not any duplication of names, and thus no “Junior” is required. (If I name her Mary Williams Smith, though, we’ve got the duplicate name issue.) All of this, or course, presumes that the parents are married, and the mother takes the father’s name. I think this is standard procedure, but it is by no means mandatory. If you have a single Mom, or a Mom who keeps her maiden name AND gives her female child her surname, then the Junior scenario could definitely come about. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2005, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-daughter-with-same-name-as-mother-called-jr/284661/20 "2005-01-15T01:29:14Z")
> [@AllShookDown](#): > > One of my great-great grandmothers, whose name was Mary Magdalena, named three of her five daughters Mary. Mary Magdalena (aunt Lena), Mary Emma (aunt Emma), and Mary Louisa (she lived only 5 days). Can you say “German Catholics?” My paternal grandparents did the same thing with their four daughters-three had Mary as their middle names. Only my Aunt Mary Carol ended up with “Mary” as her first name, but has always gone by both first-middle. And yes, they are Catholic. (Something about my grandfather praying to the Blessed Mother when he was injured if he ever had a daughter, he’d name it after her. I guess she took him seriously! :eek: ) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-daughter-with-same-name-as-mother-called-jr/284661.md?page=2)