# Is death bad for the person that dies? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 24, 2024, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-death-bad-for-the-person-that-dies/1003275 "2024-06-24T15:45:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2024, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-death-bad-for-the-person-that-dies/1003275/81 "2024-08-28T01:08:19Z")
> [@thorny\_locust](#): > > And because most humans realize that if there’s too much “anarchy, mindless hooliganism, casual evil” they themselves are very likely to be the victims of it; and that if they themselves behave that way others are more likely to behave that way to them. The majority of people in history in the last few thousand years believed in religion. That negates your statement. It’s nice to posit that humanity would still display similar amounts of bad behavior with or without religion, but given the hegemony of religion over most cultures we really don’t have the stats to prove it. That’s the core of my point. Religion has been so powerful over and so all-encompassing to human behavior that it has polluted the vast majority of statements about life and death, both in formal philosophy and in common language. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2024, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-death-bad-for-the-person-that-dies/1003275/82 "2024-08-28T01:32:55Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > The majority of people in history in the last few thousand years believed in religion. That negates your statement. Why? I don’t see what that’s got to do with it. I was saying that both atheists and theists are capable of understanding that, and that therefore (among other reasons) a belief in an afterlife is not required for good social behavior. For that matter, a belief in an afterlife isn’t required for religion, either; nor is a religion which uses the idea as a threat required for a belief in an afterlife. I’m not at all sure that any religion is required for a belief in an afterlife, at least unless the entire idea is defined as religious. > [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > That’s the core of my point. Religion has been so powerful over and so all-encompassing to human behavior that it has polluted the vast majority of statements about life and death, both in formal philosophy and in common language. That’s probably true, though I think I’d say “influenced” instead of “polluted”. I just don’t see that it has anything to do with the point I was trying to make. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2024, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-death-bad-for-the-person-that-dies/1003275/83 "2024-08-28T01:45:24Z")
That may be true, since I thought you didn’t understand any of my points either. We probably agree but are just talking past one another. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2024, 9:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-death-bad-for-the-person-that-dies/1003275/84 "2024-08-30T09:56:09Z")
My take: yes, death is generally a bad thing for the person that dies. They can no longer experience positive things and, while it’s true that life has negative things too, there’s always at least the possibility of things getting better, and you’re learning and growing…until that is, you’re dead. I say “generally” because there are cases where the above doesn’t apply. If you have a very painful and incurable condition, it may be quite rational to want to call it quits. I also think it can be misleading at times to state only two options of death and perpetual existence. I mean, technically yes it’s binary in the sense of either you will cease to exist at some point, or you won’t. But it’s misleading in the current context of humans living only a few score years, and in a universe billions of years old but where perpetual anything seems physically impossible. Perpetual existence isn’t likely to be an option on the table, but many variants of living indefinitely likely will be. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2024, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-death-bad-for-the-person-that-dies/1003275/85 "2024-08-30T14:19:17Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > I also think it can be misleading at times to state only two options of death and perpetual existence. I mean, technically yes it’s binary in the sense of either you will cease to exist at some point, or you won’t. But it’s misleading in the current context of humans living only a few score years, and in a universe billions of years old but where perpetual anything seems physically impossible. Perpetual existence isn’t likely to be an option on the table, but many variants of living indefinitely likely will be. I don’t want to live forever, but living until the heat death of the universe sounds nice! ---
**Author:** ![Tibby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tibby/32/17030_2.png) [@Tibby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tibby)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2024, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-death-bad-for-the-person-that-dies/1003275/86 "2024-08-30T20:07:45Z")
I’d like to hang around for a week _after_ the heat death of the universe, just so I can say I outlasted the Big Freeze. I’ll be the last guy in existence, lounging on a cosmic lawn chair, sipping cold coffee from a thermos, and bragging to the empty void, _‘Yep, still here, suckers!’_ I’ll bring my wool mittens. ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2024, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-death-bad-for-the-person-that-dies/1003275/87 "2024-09-23T03:28:34Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > Now above indirectly points out that the OP’s _title_ is about a very different topic than the OP’s _post_. This is the very first thing that jumped out at me. The title asks about the individual that dies, and the question is rated as a value judgement. I am an atheist. I believe that anything we experience is tied up in the biochemistry in the brain. Once the brain ceases to function, there is no more experience. So being dead cannot be bad for that person. The OP frames the concept of “opportunity cost”, the idea that missing out on experiences that could have been had makes it bad. Well, that person missed out on experiences, sure, and not dying would allow more of those experiences. From the perspective of a living person, the idea that I don’t get any more can be “bad”, something I disapprove. But for me after I’m dead, I won’t be able to care, so it can’t be bad. It can only be bad to me now contemplating not being here. So I will argue for the individual’s, being dead is not bad, but many methods of getting there are. But the post moves to asking about the termination of all life. > [@LSLGuy](#): > > The OP is asserting that Life as a universal phenomenon has value in the Universe, and the cessation of Life everywhere in the Universe would be objectively bad, leaving the universe an objectively worse place. And further that the death of any creature is bad, not for the individual’s sake, but for the loss to the Universe of the life that creature would have had if its death occurred later in time or never. Great restatement. To me, the existence of life is neither good nor bad. It is happenstance. Value judgement of good or bad can only be made by a thinking being. If all life ceased, there would be no thinking beings to evaluate and judge. Now as a living person, I can make value judgements about events and situations in the world. I can be saddened by the loss of habitat and forced extinction of many a lifeform, or suffering caused to sensing life, especially caused by humans. I can feel sorrow for the people lost needlessly to war or famine or disease. I can cry for the loss of people I know and care about, because they are gone from my life, even if not from memory. None of that means squat to the Universe, and the eradication of every bit of life in the universe may be appalling to me trying to live here, but it cannot be bad for any of us once eradicated. > [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > But if that’s your only consideration, it makes death a good thing, because it ends suffering. It means the best thing you can do for a person (or other entity) is to kill them painlessly. It makes [Jim Jones](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Jones) the moral ideal. And that strikes me as very wrong. Jim Jones was a lot of things, but a moral ideal isn’t one of them. Just to be clear, Jones was a fake faith healer (redundancy) and con man (more redundancy) who held people against their will, forced deprivation and malnutrition in his followers, raped some of his followers, and eventually had people murdered for interfering. And then he forced his followers to drink poison or have it administered by syringe. So any claim he made for any justification was a lie, and therefore, nothing he said can me a moral ideal. He was immoral and acting immorally. The idea of euthanasia can be argued on different contexts. Blanket killing of everyone to ease their generic suffering is the same justification that leads to Torquemada, or the aphorism from Vietnam - “We had to kill the village to save it.” To be clear, I think it can be a wrong against a human to end their life while believing their being dead is not bad for them. ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2024, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-death-bad-for-the-person-that-dies/1003275/88 "2024-09-23T03:49:30Z")
Disclaimer: I’m feeling really bad, all day today. So take this with a grain of salt. Yes, dying is bad. It matters what you’re dying from, of course. Unless it’s totally random burst aneurysm or a bullet to the brain you’ll likely be sick, scared, alone. Possibly in pain or drugged up. Whether the world is worse off when you die is subjective. Everyone is replaceable. If you leave an area of expertise someone will jump right in your chair before the seat cools off. If you’re very beloved you still will be after death. Death is necessary and important to life. ---
**Author:** ![Sylvanz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/fbc32d/32.png) [@Sylvanz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sylvanz)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2024, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-death-bad-for-the-person-that-dies/1003275/89 "2024-09-23T03:56:35Z")
It makes no sense to me. Perhaps I just don’t think philosophically, but once you’re dead, hwever painful/sad _death_ was, your problems are over. You cease to exist, no worries, no good or bad expectations. Your death will be bad for others, but you just cease to be. ---
**Author:** ![Tibby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tibby/32/17030_2.png) [@Tibby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tibby)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2024, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-death-bad-for-the-person-that-dies/1003275/90 "2024-09-23T21:23:47Z")
If you don’t believe in life or consciousness after death (which I don’t, though I could be wrong), then death itself can’t be a negative experience for the deceased, as they’re no longer capable of experiencing anything. Once life ends, so do all sensations, thoughts, and awareness, making the notion of suffering or discomfort irrelevant to the dead. However, one can still consider whether dying was ultimately good or bad for the person based on certain factors. If we generally believe that life is valuable, then dying young could be seen as unfortunate because it deprived the individual of future experiences and opportunities for happiness. Conversely, if the person’s life was filled with suffering, one might argue that death was a relief, cutting short their hardships. For those who do believe in an afterlife, the question of whether dying was good or bad for the deceased becomes more complex. The quality of both the person’s life before death and their experience in the afterlife must be considered. If someone transitions from a life of difficulty to an afterlife of peace and fulfillment, their death could be seen as beneficial. On the other hand, if someone moves from a rich, fulfilling life to Hell, their death might be considered a misfortune. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2024, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-death-bad-for-the-person-that-dies/1003275/91 "2024-09-25T12:46:29Z")
> [@Sylvanz](#): > > Perhaps I just don’t think philosophically, but once you’re dead, hwever painful/sad _death_ was, your problems are over. You cease to exist, no worries, no good or bad expectations. Disagree. Things can matter independent of one person’s viewpoint. It matters that Giordano Bruno is not around to see he was right about stars being far away suns, even if there is no spirit of Bruno around to know that in real-time. I still have things I want to achieve in life, and even though dying means I don’t get to personally _see_ that I didn’t achieve those things, it’s still “a bad thing”. ---
**Author:** ![Sylvanz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/fbc32d/32.png) [@Sylvanz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sylvanz)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2024, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-death-bad-for-the-person-that-dies/1003275/92 "2024-09-25T17:09:05Z")
But once you’re dead those things don’t matter to _you_ anymore. These things are important to others after you die, and to you before you die, but to you _once you’re dead,_ you don’t care anymore. YMMV as always. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2024, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-death-bad-for-the-person-that-dies/1003275/93 "2024-09-25T21:49:51Z")
Right, but the OP is asking whether it is _bad for_ the person that dies, not whether the person still exists and experiences the emotion of caring (which would trivially boil down to asking about belief in an afterlife). Seeing the question as bad/good for me, the logic is like this: Is it bad for me to live my life with sickle cell disease? Yes Is it still true to say it was bad for me, even after I’m dead and am no longer around to lament that fact? Yes Is it bad for me if I die at a young age / leaving a family behind / without achieving my ambition? Yes Is it still true to say it was bad for me even though I am not around to personally lament that fact? Yes ---
**Author:** ![Danger\_Man](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/6de8d8/32.png) [@Danger\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Danger_Man)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2024, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-death-bad-for-the-person-that-dies/1003275/94 "2024-10-06T20:24:02Z")
As an atheist I would tend to say no. If someone shoots me in the back of the head, it would be a _neutral_ thing happening to me. I would just cease to exist. But then I wouldn’t get to experience life anymore. Is that a bad thing? It’s hard to say. It’s a very philisophical question, and I don’t really have a good answer. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2024, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-death-bad-for-the-person-that-dies/1003275/95 "2024-10-06T20:30:58Z")
> [@Danger\_Man](#): > > But then I wouldn’t get to experience life anymore. Is that a bad thing? It’s hard to say. Yes. Why is it hard to say? Of course it’s a bad thing. ---
**Author:** ![Danger\_Man](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/6de8d8/32.png) [@Danger\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Danger_Man)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2024, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-death-bad-for-the-person-that-dies/1003275/96 "2024-10-06T20:32:54Z")
Because I wouldn’t know it. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2024, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-death-bad-for-the-person-that-dies/1003275/97 "2024-10-06T20:36:39Z")
> [@Danger\_Man](#): > > Because I wouldn’t know it Is you doing something that fills you with joy and doesn’t cause suffering to others - say, eating an ethically sourced pizza - a good thing? ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2024, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-death-bad-for-the-person-that-dies/1003275/98 "2024-10-07T14:22:39Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Why is it hard to say? Of course it’s a bad thing. If someone is not happy with their life, maybe contemplating suicide, maybe in constant pain, I can see it being a blessing rather than a bad thing. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2024, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-death-bad-for-the-person-that-dies/1003275/99 "2024-10-07T14:24:15Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > ethically sourced pizza I eat pizza every other week. What makes my pie “ethically sourced”? Never heard of an ethically sourced pizza! ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2024, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-death-bad-for-the-person-that-dies/1003275/100 "2024-10-07T20:51:22Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > > [@Danger\_Man](#): > > > > Because I wouldn’t know it > > Is you doing something that fills you with joy and doesn’t cause suffering to others - say, eating an ethically sourced pizza - a good thing? IANA @Danger_Man. To me, a _subjectively_ good thing has two prerequisites: A) some conscious entity to experience the experience, and B) some experience they, or a typical observer, might reasonably find to be “good”. Absent the former, it doesn’t matter whether the latter missed experience would have been good, like a pizza, or bad, like a stubbed toe. With no one to experience it, the idea of it having any qualities whatsoever is sheer nonsense. The deceased cannot possibly miss the experiences their non-existent later life didn’t get a chance to contain. IMO YMMV. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-death-bad-for-the-person-that-dies/1003275.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-death-bad-for-the-person-that-dies/1003275.md?page=6)