Aha! You caught the kitties just before they started to carry out the valuables!
I have indoor/outdoor cats, who are in when they want to be and out when they want to be. They become irritated and angry, they pick fights with each other, and they start behaving badly if anyone tries to keep them completely inside.
They love to roam around in the yard and the woods and catch little animals and eat those little animals, and they are not declawed. They did get neutered because there are a lot of cats in the area and we didn’t want any mating going on and producing dozens of kittens.
And if they were supposed to have short life spans because of it, someone should have told them. They turned 14 this year.
I don’t know how much more simply this can be stated: it is not bad for a cat to be kept inside. A cat raised as an indoor pet is perfectly happy being an indoor pet (and it’s not necessary to declaw them; my cats are indoor cats and have their claws.) It is ludicrous to continue arguing this point, because it’s utterly false. Indoor cats are quite happy being that way. A polar bear should not be kept in tropical climes, nor a Great Dane in a small apartment, because those things would obviously be bad for their health and well-being. Being kept indoors is NOT bad for a cat’s health and well-being.
Cats are descended from predators; so what? So are dogs, right? So why don’t we all let our dogs run around outside unattended? In fact, dogs have a much better argument than cats to be left outside to run about, since they’re far more energetic and they need more space than a cat. What makes cats special in this regard? If you cat wants to chase things, buy the cat some toys. A few fluffy balls, balls attached to string, or even a laser pointer will keep your cat happy for hours.
As long as you think cats should not be dnied their basic nature, please explain to me again how sterilizing them isn’t changing their basic nature.
So I should allow my animals, whose lives and health I am morally responsible for, to be exposed to the risk of being killed by a car or eaten by a coyote - coyotes are now commonplace throughout North America - because “that’s life and death?” That’s absurd. Why don’t I just not vaccinate them, too? After all, rabies and feline leukemia and distemper and just “life and death,” right?
Why not reduce the risks and protect my cat’s health and happiness by not unecessarily exposing it to the possibility of being run over, eaten, killed, or diseased?
Yes, but they had the choice!
Rickjay - please don’t bark at me - just because you repeat your viewpoint over and over does not immunise it from counter-argument.
I don’t think keeping cats indoors is cruel, or that it necessarily damages their health. I’m simply saying that by doing so you are making their lives that much more artificial - so it could compromise their wellbeing. Also, as I said before, cats are not all the same. I’ve had cats that loathe going out, and others who spend most of their lives in the garden.
You bring dogs up - but I think the argument is the same. It is a dog’s nature to run about and mark its territory. If you can’t provide this, then you are distorting its nature. You don’t have to “let it run about unattended” all the time - it’s a question of balance.
I have already conceded that the point that neutering also changes the animal’s “basic nature”, so there was no need to pick me up on it. I don’t really know the answer to this one except to say that not to sterilise my cats would eventually have compromised their health (females would have died young - they had already had several litters, and male would have wandered off and eventually got run over). I think I could (but only just!) argue that it was done more for their health than my convenience.
So, yes, if you are responsible for an animal, then you protect it as far as possible from disease and danger. You get it vaccinated, you make sure it cannot get out on the road. But you can’t keep it under house arrest. Life, human and animal, involves risk. If the environmental risks are too big, then you should either forego the animal, or move somewhere more suitable. De-clawing, though, is done for the owner’s convenience at the expense of the animal’s.
Blimey, how did I get into this?!
They did, and they stayed inside, so why would it be unethical to keep them inside?
Julie
Well, I don’t know if the choice (to go outside) was permanently available to them, or a one-off. If the latter, then they may have lost the confidence to go out. Freedom can be frightening, as any old existentialist will tell you.
I don’t think there is any evidence I can give, other than signed affadavits from my cats, that would prove that they don’t desire to be outside.
A couple of them like to look out the window. I guess if I wanted to believe that they desired their freedom, I could say that looking out the window is proof.
One of our cats used to open one of the upstairs windows and walk out on the porch roof, circle around, then demand to be let in another upstairs window. She couldn’t get back in the way she got out.
But we never came home and found her outside. The only time she’d go out the window was when one of us was in the other room, available to let her in.
In other words, she seemed to think it entertaining in some way to go out the window, but she never stayed out, never got off the roof (which would have been possible) and never went out when we weren’t there.
The other cats would have been able to follow her out, but they never did. All of this leads me to believe that our cats are content to be inside–that they view the house as their home or den or nest or whathaveyou, not as a cage. If you put them in a crate, you see the difference.
Are there cats who aren’t content inside? Of course. Cats have different personalities. There are definitely some outside cats who would never be happy being moved indoors, but other outside cats love the indoors and will stay permanently inside if given the chance. My cats? You’d have to shove them out the door, with Albert howling at the top of his lungs the whole time, then lock them out. All in the name of giving them a little freedom that they don’t seem to desire.
Julie
You know jsgoddess we could solve this whole conversation by taking your cats to the shrink that reads animals minds. Certainly you have seen her on Animal Planet and the talk show circut. This chick sits next to the pet and strokes it and the pet tells her what its probelms are and the chick translates it to its owner.
We could find out if your cats really desire to be indoors or outdoors.
I know what my cats’ problems are:
Yes, my cats do lead traumatic lives.
Julie
jsgoddess I think your cats need therapy. They sound spoiled and might form a mutiny if you don’t do it right away!
nyaa, your cats are all pussies
nobody answered this. is this unethical too? i’m against declawing but this was done when we had cats, and they never complained.
Thanks, shijinn, I would have reposted it eventually! I ask because I knew of an old lady who used to do this with her kitties. Whether it actually kept them from tearing up the place I don’t know.
I am assuming that was sarcasm rather than an honest reply, allow me to reciprocate:
Yes, lets allow our house cats into the outdoors instead of keeping them safe and comfortable inside so thay can run away, be hit by cars, and generally never make it home at some point. Much better that way. :smack:
I asked my friend once why her dog (Pug) didn’t like to be outside, if it was a freak. She said it had to do with its breeding, since pugs were breed as lap dogs, some Pugs do not like to be outside at all. Her dog does not seem unhappy at all.
I have had two cats since I was seven. One died at nineteen, the other is still going strong at eleven.
Don’t declaw your cat. If it’s indoors, get two or three scratching posts and put them around, they will use them. If it’s outdoors, put your cat on a leash and keep an eye on it. They only scratch to dull their claws, they need to do this. So if you love your cat, give them access to scratching facilities and make sure they don’t get hurt.
If your furniture is that important, look into getting a fish instead of an animal you will have to maim. MHO.
i wanted to know too 
though if i recall correctly it never kept them from clawing up their favourite armchair… (takes them longer maybe? heh)
Is declawing ethical?
Depends on how you view the natural world in general.
If you’re a fundamentalist-religious-type, then the answer is probably yes, it’s perfectly ethical. After all humans are at the top of the totem pole of nature, therefore we can do whatever the hell we want to any form of life we have established control over.
If you’re more progressive in your thinking, you may consider it unethical.
I’m in the 2nd camp, and vehemently discourage anyone from declawing their cat. Because if said cat escapes it’s apartment prison once–just once–and it meets up with a dog or non-declawed aggressive cat, 99% of the time IT WILL DIE AN UGLY, PAINFUL DEATH.
All in the name of protecting some precious furniture.
If the furniture means that much to you, buy a hamster.
I’m wondering why the anti-declawing folks feel it so necessary to use these kind of wild exaggerations.
Regards,
Shodan