# Is DeLay going down?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-delay-going-down/298028
**Category:** Great Debates
**Created:** [April 6, 2005, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-delay-going-down/298028 "2005-04-06T13:40:00Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 5
### Author:  [@plnnr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/plnnr)
#### Post date: [September 28, 2005, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-delay-going-down/298028/81 "2005-09-28T18:25:25Z")
> [@Fear Itself](#):
>
> That would be the one [Republicans changed last November](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A54572-2004Nov16.html), specifically to protect DeLay, then [changed back again in January](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A45573-2005Jan3.html) in response to the public outcry? Is that the rule?
Yes, that very one. Apparently the Republican majority was only kidding about exempting DeLay but then realized that they hadn’t bothered to let anyone else in on the joke.
“Oh, c’mon, we were only fooling…honestly. Cant’ you people take a joke?”
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### Author:  [@Crotalus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crotalus)
#### Post date: [September 28, 2005, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-delay-going-down/298028/82 "2005-09-28T18:27:29Z")
I wonder if **Bricker** would be willing to weigh in on the ease or difficulty of getting a conviction on the conspiracy charge?
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### Author:  [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)
#### Post date: [September 28, 2005, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-delay-going-down/298028/83 "2005-09-28T18:31:37Z")
“Meet Republican Singles?” (Google ad)
That’s how I ended up as a TeenAged Republican. :eek:
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### Author:  [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)
#### Post date: [September 28, 2005, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-delay-going-down/298028/84 "2005-09-28T18:33:03Z")
> [@dropzone](#):
>
> “Meet Republican Singles?” (Google ad)
Just goes to show you: there’s a web site for anything, no matter how twisted and depraved.
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### Author:  [@Crotalus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crotalus)
#### Post date: [September 28, 2005, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-delay-going-down/298028/85 "2005-09-28T18:36:41Z")
Have you seen [thread=336504]this[/thread] thread? Goat ads!!
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### Author:  [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)
#### Post date: [September 28, 2005, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-delay-going-down/298028/86 "2005-09-28T20:09:45Z")
> [@Fear Itself](#):
>
> As delighted as I am about this indictment, I will reserve any happy-feet dancing until he is convicted. These slimy devils have shown an ability to slip the noose before, and I hate it when I get my hopes up, only to have them dashed because the fix is in from the beginning.
I am shocked, sir, shocked. You appear to be presuming guilt even before the trial has commenced. We should, nay, must, let the wheels of justice turn, and give Mr. Delay his day in court. Until such time as a jury of his peers _(snicker)_ sees fit to _(snerk)_ render judgment _(choke)_ based on the evidence presented _(chuckle)_, we must assume the man’s innocence— _(BWA HA HA HA)_
Sorry, couldn’t hold it together any longer.
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### Author:  [@JonScribe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JonScribe)
#### Post date: [September 28, 2005, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-delay-going-down/298028/87 "2005-09-28T22:04:06Z")
Five bucks says Jon Stewart will be fondling his nipples tonight.
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### Author:  [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)
#### Post date: [September 28, 2005, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-delay-going-down/298028/88 "2005-09-28T23:21:10Z")
> [@JonScribe](#):
>
> Five bucks says Jon Stewart will be fondling his nipples tonight.
What, DeLay’s? Make it ten bucks and you’re on! 🙂
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### Author:  [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)
#### Post date: [September 29, 2005, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-delay-going-down/298028/89 "2005-09-29T00:01:52Z")
I would love to see DeLay go to prison. I would also love to see Frist locked up, followed by Rove. But, my cynical side says it will never happen for any of them. It will be a little noisy for a while, and then be delayed to death and swept under the rug.
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### Author:  [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)
#### Post date: [September 29, 2005, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-delay-going-down/298028/90 "2005-09-29T00:25:11Z")
Shall we do a full rendition of the Hallelujah Chorus?
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### Author:  [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)
#### Post date: [September 29, 2005, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-delay-going-down/298028/91 "2005-09-29T00:25:22Z")
> [@Squink](#):
>
> [Forced to Virtue, GOP reverses DeLay Rule:](http://www.cnn.com/2005/ALLPOLITICS/01/03/delay.rule/)
And a rule that, btw, the Democrats do not have. You’re aware of that, right?
After watching Hardball, which devoted most its time today to this story, I give this about a 10% chance of handing down a conviction. This really does look like typical partisan Texas politics, and the conspiracy charges look thin as ice on a Texas pond in mid-summer. If you actually read what the conspiracy was about, it involves arcane Texas campaign financing laws that were suposedly violated (with a big emphasis on supposedly) by a PAC which DeLay supposedly (again with a big emphasis) was influencing in its actions.
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### Author:  [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)
#### Post date: [September 29, 2005, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-delay-going-down/298028/92 "2005-09-29T00:51:06Z")
> [@John Mace](#):
>
> And a rule that, btw, the Democrats do not have. You’re aware of that, right?
You don’t need a DeLay rule unless you’ve got a DeLay.
Whether there’s a conviction or not, DeLay is finished. This _might_ even portend the end of the interregnum at the house ethics committee. The GOP has _got_ to get out in front of this “party of corruption” meme somehow, if they plan to survive Bush.
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### Author:  [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)
#### Post date: [September 29, 2005, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-delay-going-down/298028/93 "2005-09-29T00:59:49Z")
> [@John Mace](#):
>
> And a rule that, btw, the Democrats do not have. You’re aware of that, right?
So, a Democratic Speaker of the House could hold his/her position despite being under indictment? Or is there a House rule (as distinct from a caucus rule) that would stop that?
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### Author:  [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)
#### Post date: [September 29, 2005, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-delay-going-down/298028/94 "2005-09-29T01:11:46Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#):
>
> So, a Democratic Speaker of the House could hold his/her position despite being under indictment? Or is there a House rule (as distinct from a caucus rule) that would stop that?
It’s not a House Rule, but I don’t know if “caucus rule” is the right term. It may be, I’m just familiar with calling it that.
BTW, this whole situation is looking eerily familiar: the Republicans are now being attacked just like the Democrats were in the early 90s with ethics charges and indictments. That was a major part of how the Pubs took over Congress. It worked well for the Pubs, and might work for the Dems as well-- especially if Bush continues to bumble as he seems apt to do.
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### Author:  [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)
#### Post date: [September 29, 2005, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-delay-going-down/298028/95 "2005-09-29T02:25:50Z")
> [@John Mace](#):
>
> This really does look like typical partisan Texas politics, and the conspiracy charges look thin as ice on a Texas pond in mid-summer.
So far. The key is gong to be how much pressure can the DA put on the little fish (John Colyandro and James Ellie) to flip on DeLay and spill all the details that may be far damaging than what we know now. Unless the Republican machine is willing to go out on a limb for them as well as DeLay, the whole house of cards may come tumbling down when they sing.
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### Author:  [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)
#### Post date: [September 29, 2005, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-delay-going-down/298028/96 "2005-09-29T05:28:52Z")
> [@Fear Itself](#):
>
> So far. The key is gong to be how much pressure can the DA put on the little fish (John Colyandro and James Ellie) to flip on DeLay and spill all the details that may be far damaging than what we know now. Unless the Republican machine is willing to go out on a limb for them as well as DeLay, the whole house of cards may come tumbling down when they sing.
Assuming that there is a house of cards to begin with. My take on this thing is that these charges are trumped up as a political manuever to bring DeLay down. He may indeed deserve to be brought down, but these particular charges are BS. Still, it puts him as “indicted” and makes him less appealing for re-election next year. This si the same stuff the Republicans did to the Democrats 12 years or so ago to gain control of Congress. And if the Republicans hadn’t gotten so drunk on power, they wouldn’t be so vulnerable.
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### Author:  [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)
#### Post date: [September 29, 2005, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-delay-going-down/298028/97 "2005-09-29T12:21:38Z")
This will sound immature (it is after all), but what’s good for the goose is good for tha gander. They are being hit by the same tactics they themselves used in the past. There’s something amusing in that.
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### Author:  [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)
#### Post date: [September 29, 2005, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-delay-going-down/298028/98 "2005-09-29T13:01:07Z")
> [@John Mace](#):
>
> And a rule that, btw, the Democrats do not have. You’re aware of that, right?
It was a rule introduced by those brave corruption-fighters – and Delay was one of them – the '92 GOP congressional delegation. In other words, it was something of an election gimmick that came back to bite them.
> [@](#):
>
> After watching Hardball, which devoted most its time today to this story, I give this about a 10% chance of handing down a conviction. This really does look like typical partisan Texas politics, and the conspiracy charges look thin as ice on a Texas pond in mid-summer.
John, I didn’t see that Hardball, but ignoring the strength or weakness of the charges against Delay, what evidence is there that this is “typical partisan politics”? All I’ve seen to back that up is:
a) Ronnie Earle is a Dem. Who usually prosecutes Dems.
b) Well, damn, it’s partisan!
And that’s it. Did Hardball add a missing piece, other than a) and b) repeated earnestly by several people?
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### Author:  [@Loopydude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopydude)
#### Post date: [September 29, 2005, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-delay-going-down/298028/99 "2005-09-29T14:33:35Z")
The “partisan hack” meme is a product of Earl’s failed indictment of Sen. Kay Hutchison. That is, as far as I can tell, the sole blot on a record otherwise distinguished largely by going after big fish, be they Dem. or Pub. His ratio for investigation is 4:1 Dem.-to-Pub., and it would appear some of the folks he’s gotten convictions on have even been his erstwhile Democrat friends.
I might believe “prosecutorial showboat”, but “partisan hack”? I dunno. The common theme in his career appears to be “high-profile case”, not “politically-motivated cases”.
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### Author:  [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)
#### Post date: [September 29, 2005, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-delay-going-down/298028/100 "2005-09-29T14:48:45Z")
> [@squeegee](#):
>
> It was a rule introduced by those brave corruption-fighters – and Delay was one of them – the '92 GOP congressional delegation. In other words, it was something of an election gimmick that came back to bite them.
I agree. It’s just that some people automatically assume that the Democrats have a simlilar rule which they left alone, which incorrect.
> [@](#):
>
> John, I didn’t see that Hardball, but ignoring the strength or weakness of the charges against Delay, what evidence is there that this is “typical partisan politics”? All I’ve seen to back that up is:
>
> a) Ronnie Earle is a Dem. Who usually prosecutes Dems.
> b) Well, damn, it’s partisan!
>
> And that’s it. Did Hardball add a missing piece, other than a) and b) repeated earnestly by several people?
Matthews had several guys on from [Texas](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas), and they’re the ones who said it. One guy from a major Texas newspaper noted that local Texas politics had been dominated by Democtrats (Texas democrats, not Kennedy Democrats), with the fighting mainly between conservative Dems and liberal Dems. Earle had gone after mostly conservative Dems. Since DeLay engineered he take-over the Texas legislature by the Pubs, the fighting has become more Dems vs Pubs.
> [@](#):
>
> Texas politics is currently dominated by the Republican Party, which has strong majorities in the Texas Senate and House of Representatives. Every executive branch official elected statewide is Republican, as is every member of Texas’s two courts of last resort; no Democrat has won a statewide election since 1994. The majority of the state’s delegation to the U.S. House of Representatives is Republican, as are both U.S. Senators.
>
> Like other Southern states, Texas historically was a one-party state of the Democratic Party. The Democrats controlled a majority in the Texas House and in the state’s Congressional delegation until the 2002 and 2004 elections, respectively. One of the most famous Texans was a Democrat: Lyndon Baines Johnson served in the U.S. House of Representatives, the U.S. Senate, and as vice-president and president of the United States.
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