# is democracy a threat to the global enviroment - and are we doomed ? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 18, 2007, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-democracy-a-threat-to-the-global-enviroment-and-are-we-doomed/430479 "2007-12-18T18:48:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Wildfire\_MM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f08c70/32.png) [@Wildfire\_MM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wildfire_MM)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2007, 8:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-democracy-a-threat-to-the-global-enviroment-and-are-we-doomed/430479/41 "2007-12-28T08:43:28Z")
the problem is that we all are part of an economic system that most grow each year. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2007, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-democracy-a-threat-to-the-global-enviroment-and-are-we-doomed/430479/42 "2007-12-28T20:28:57Z")
So you want, what, an economic system that contracts? Great plan there, Sparky. It’s kind of silly to believe that capitalism requires an ever-expanding economy. What on earth would lead you to believe that? ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2008, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-democracy-a-threat-to-the-global-enviroment-and-are-we-doomed/430479/43 "2008-01-01T15:57:00Z")
[QUOTE=Lust4Life] The Soviet Union and communist eastern Europe were amongst the worst polluters on earth and didn’t appear to be worried about it at all so you cant blame the state of the planet on capitalism alone. [/QUOTE] In Soviet Union, global environment threatens you ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2008, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-democracy-a-threat-to-the-global-enviroment-and-are-we-doomed/430479/44 "2008-01-01T16:27:43Z")
[QUOTE=Wildfire\*\*MM] It sometimes seams to me that the voters in every country makes it impossible for any governments on earth to take necessary actions to stop the global warming. [/quote] Assuming for the sake of argument that AGW/CO2 is not essentially a hoax, it’s not a question of democracy so much as a question of balkanization. As **Sam Stone** pointed out, China and India aren’t going to submit to a CO2 tax if it’s not in their interests to do so. Which it isn’t at this point. And no, we’re not doomed. Or if we are doomed, we’re not doomed in the way that most people think we are doomed. Here’s an inciteful quote from Michael Crichton: > [@](#): > > Let’s think back to people in 1900 in, say, New York. If they worried about people in 2000, what would they worry about? Probably: Where would people get enough horses? And what would they do about all the horseshit? Horse pollution was bad in 1900, think how much worse it would be a century later, with so many more people riding horses? > > But of course, within a few years, nobody rode horses except for sport. And in 2000, France was getting 80% its power from an energy source that was unknown in 1900. Germany, Switzerland, Belgium and Japan were getting more than 30% from this source, unknown in 1900. Remember, people in 1900 didn’t know what an atom was. They didn’t know its structure. They also didn’t know what a radio was, or an airport, or a movie, or a television, or a computer, or a cell phone, or a jet, an antibiotic, a rocket, a satellite, an MRI, ICU, IUD, IBM, IRA, ERA, EEG, EPA, IRS, DOD, PCP, HTML, internet. interferon, instant replay, remote sensing, remote control, speed dialing, gene therapy, gene splicing, genes, spot welding, heat-seeking, bipolar, prozac, leotards, lap dancing, email, tape recorder, CDs, airbags, plastic explosive, plastic, robots, cars, liposuction, transduction, superconduction, dish antennas, step aerobics, smoothies, twelve-step, ultrasound, nylon, rayon, teflon, fiber optics, carpal tunnel, laser surgery, laparoscopy, corneal transplant, kidney transplant, AIDS… None of this would have meant anything to a person in the year 1900. They wouldn’t know what you are talking about. > > Now. You tell me you can predict the world of 2100. Tell me it’s even worth thinking about. Our models just carry the present into the future. They’re bound to be wrong. Everybody who gives a moment’s thought knows it. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2008, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-democracy-a-threat-to-the-global-enviroment-and-are-we-doomed/430479/45 "2008-01-01T16:35:39Z")
[QUOTE=brazil84] Here’s an inciteful quote from Michael Crichton: [/QUOTE] Hehe. That should be insightful. (Or maybe inciteful too!) ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2008, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-democracy-a-threat-to-the-global-enviroment-and-are-we-doomed/430479/46 "2008-01-01T20:35:01Z")
Of course it is, with democracy no one is responsible for anything. ---
**Author:** ![athelas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5e9695/32.png) [@athelas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/athelas)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2008, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-democracy-a-threat-to-the-global-enviroment-and-are-we-doomed/430479/47 "2008-01-01T21:27:35Z")
We’ll all get the planet, and the economy, we deserve. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2008, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-democracy-a-threat-to-the-global-enviroment-and-are-we-doomed/430479/48 "2008-01-02T02:06:50Z")
Good…I hope we all DO get what we deserve. 😉 -XT ---
**Author:** ![pale\_horse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/fbc32d/32.png) [@pale\_horse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pale_horse)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2008, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-democracy-a-threat-to-the-global-enviroment-and-are-we-doomed/430479/49 "2008-01-03T03:21:01Z")
[QUOTE=Wildfire\*\*MM] It sometimes seams to me that the voters in every country makes it impossible for any governments on earth to take necessary actions to stop the global warming. It further seams to me that necessary action to stop global warming infact means so drastic changes that it will more or less ruin the lives of most citicents in every nation, especially the wealthy nations. Is the price to stop global warming **major economic depression, massemployment and grinding powerty** to most people in a scale that makes the 1930 look like the “Happy days”. ? Seams to me that we all are on a train heading for disaster, but we can’t stop because our way of life are so fundamental for our modern existence Have anyone else had such thought ? I’m however not so sure that this is linkes to democracy as I suspect that dictators fear to take similar actions to avoid the rage of the masses. Another (but relevant) debate are if the democraties have so much power as they had some decades ago. It seams to me that the financial business world of free trade - and organizations like OECD and similar org. have today very much power that should infact been under democratic rule and not in boardrooms. [/QUOTE] do you really know what democracy means? demos-mob ocracy-rules so in actuality the"mob rules" so yes we are doomed [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-democracy-a-threat-to-the-global-enviroment-and-are-we-doomed/430479.md?page=2)