# Is Detroit really that messed up? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [October 26, 2009, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-detroit-really-that-messed-up/515202 "2009-10-26T18:12:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![crazyjoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f14d63/32.png) [@crazyjoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crazyjoe)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2009, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-detroit-really-that-messed-up/515202/81 "2009-10-30T20:50:15Z")
Oh, wait…the wierd quote tags originally made it seem like you were talking to me…but now I am not sure. Sorry if I jumped a little. ---
**Author:** ![crazyjoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f14d63/32.png) [@crazyjoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crazyjoe)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2009, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-detroit-really-that-messed-up/515202/82 "2009-10-30T20:55:27Z")
Curses, foiled by a nested whoosh! ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2009, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-detroit-really-that-messed-up/515202/83 "2009-11-01T03:01:05Z")
> [@Susanann](#): > > Originally Posted by Susanann View Post > Toronto is an artsy, fartsy, metropolitan, multi-cultural, cosmopolitan city, it should have condos that cost more than $200,000.00. Toronto has theater/plays, dance companies, opera, and the complete variety of different culture bars, restaurants, neighborhoods, etc.Detroit doesnt have anything like that, and it is not a multi-cultural cosmopolitan city.Nobody moves to Detroit for the cultural arts, or for the multi-cultural environment, because it doesnt have any.Toronto is about as opposite from Detroit, in every way, as any town can be. > > If you think Detroit has arts, or that it compares with Toronto, or any other “cultured” city, then you obviously have never been to Toronto, Paris, London, etc. > > Even 30 or 40 years ago, Detroit’s only “culture” for the masses, was bowling, and bowling alleys, but nearly all of the bowling alleys have closed up. > > Go to downtown Detroit on a Saturday or Sunday morning or afternoon, and it will be completely desolate - like a science fiction movie, and directly opposite of what Windsor is like on weekends accross the river. > > Go to any Detroit neighborhood at night, alone and on foot, and you will experience first hand Detroit’s lack of culture. There are casinos and Greek town restaurants that have active nightlifes and first class restaurants. Ever hear of the Fisher Theater? They have “Jersey Boys” going now. The Art Museum is better than Torontos. the Science Center is not better that Torontos. The Zoo is different but they are old fashioned and is more cagy than Torontos. We have professional sports downtown like the Lions, tigers and Red Wings. ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2009, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-detroit-really-that-messed-up/515202/84 "2009-11-01T04:02:18Z")
> [@Susanann](#): > > Well I dont know about all that. There are many well-to-do black Americans living in Detroit, and many educated people as well. > > Be that as it may, there is nothing “wrong” with Detroit. > > Its just different, it just has different “demographics”, as it should, from other cities. > > Detroit is not full of French-americans, so Detroit is not like Paris, > it doesnt have any cowboys so it doesn’t look like Jackson Hole Wyoming. > it doesnt have any farmers, so it doesnt look like Fargo North Dakota, > It is not Nashville so you wont find any country bars nor hoedowns in Detroit, > it is not Las Vegas so you wont find any nightclubs nor big name entertainers, > it doesnt have any Irish, Germans, Polish, Swiss, English, Scottish, or Ukranians either. > > Detroit is mostly, almost entirely, an African-American and Arab-American city. > > If you dont like African-American/Arab-American cities, then just dont visit it, but I dont see anything intrinsically “wrong” with Detroit. > …and it isnt strange for houses in Detroit to sell for $8000, because there is really no reason why a house in Detroit should cost more than $10,000.00. Wow. Just wow, words fail me. There are none so blind as those who will not see. ---
**Author:** ![XanderCrews](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/ee59a6/32.png) [@XanderCrews](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XanderCrews)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2009, 5:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-detroit-really-that-messed-up/515202/85 "2009-11-01T05:51:29Z")
> [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](#): > > I suppose I should give my Saturday night tickets back, or at least find out who I paid for them to go [here](http://www.motopera.org/). Also, I’d like to know who has my money for my membership [here](http://www.detroitzoo.org/)and [here](http://www.dia.org/). > > Oh, and don’t look [here](http://www.loftsatwoodwardcenter.com/)to live, because that also doesn’t exist in Detroit. Architecture? Oh no. Not there. I saw Pilobolus tonight too! It was sweet. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Controvert](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dec6dc/32.png) [@The\_Controvert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Controvert)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2009, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-detroit-really-that-messed-up/515202/86 "2009-11-01T13:20:49Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > Come on Dopers! I know we can all pitch in and fix Detroit with the power of our brains! Or make it worse! Either way! 😃 I understand the “Visitors” will be arriving on Tuesday. They appear to be keen on solving our problems, so I say we point them over to Detroit. ---
**Author:** ![Pulp\_Friction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/2acd7d/32.png) [@Pulp\_Friction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pulp_Friction)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2009, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-detroit-really-that-messed-up/515202/87 "2009-11-01T16:07:48Z")
This thread is very sad. I live 20 minutes away from Detroit, and I work in the city. And I mean IN the city. The problems the city is experiencing are not original to large cities (though the scope may be). Sure, we have had corrupt politicians, rampant crime, plunging home values and a dearth of hope. These all (except the crooked leadership) have arisen - and been exacerbated by - the crash of the economy coupled with Detroit’s heavy dependence on the auto industry. There are so many good stories within the city limits, though; so many beautiful areas, so many wonderful people, so many tales of courage and integrity that go unreported by the national media and thus unknown by those who are far removed from the reality of the situation. Detroit is an easy target to pick on. If you enjoy picking on easy targets, I think that says a bit more about you than it does the city of Detroit. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2009, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-detroit-really-that-messed-up/515202/88 "2009-11-01T17:11:06Z")
> [@matt\_mcl](#): > > My good god in Heaven, that looks like something out of Simcity. I was thinking Fallout 3 actually. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2009, 8:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-detroit-really-that-messed-up/515202/89 "2009-11-02T08:19:21Z")
> [@Sunspace](#): > > I typed in zip code 48200 and was presented with a map of the Basque Country in Spain. Is this some kind of conspiracy by **Nava**? 🙂 Yes, we’re trying to get y’all to buy Durango! We’ll even hand Bilbao in for free, but you have to take the soccer team with the rest of the pack. And we’ll want [Puppy](http://ketari.nirudia.com/83) back, please. That didn’t work, did it? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2009, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-detroit-really-that-messed-up/515202/90 "2009-11-03T15:41:24Z")
> [@Susanann](#): > > Detroit is not full of French-americans, so Detroit is not like Paris Um… Paris isn’t full of French-Americans, either. ---
**Author:** ![Artista](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/71c47a/32.png) [@Artista](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Artista)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2010, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-detroit-really-that-messed-up/515202/91 "2010-02-17T15:47:00Z")
Back in the winter of 2005 i was contracted to work in the urban areas of Detroit for approx 3-4 days. Now, as a born and raised Chicagoan, Ive been to some of the worst parts of our city but i still wasn’t prepared for Detroit. To this day i am angered by what CORPORATE/CEO GREED can do to a once prosperous city. ---
**Author:** ![JWWJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f07891/32.png) [@JWWJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JWWJ)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2010, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-detroit-really-that-messed-up/515202/92 "2010-02-19T03:49:29Z")
It’s easy for a few people to come to the defense of a city and complain about the bad rap that the city gets. But they are definitely not giving an accurate portrayal of the city of Detroit by claiming that there are hidden gems and some courageous people. This is something said by a few people from the comfort of their home in a relatively safe suburban city. Some people like to point out the redeeming qualities, but clearly would never actually be bold enough to live there. And just like the city’s residents, they would never take real and bold steps to improve the city. The truth is that the few gems to be found in Detroit are very well hidden, and are so few that they may as well not exist. You can’t even find such a gem as a major grocery store, because it doesn’t exist. The last major grocery chain pulled out a few years ago, and most residents now buy their milk and eggs at liquor stores. This is not an exaggeration. Also, not a single Wal-Mart, k-mart, sears, shopping mall, circuit city etc. etc. in the entire 143 square miles within the city limits. Nothing. It’s a disservice to the city to pretend that it’s better than it actually is. You’ll never find treatment for a disease if you simply pretend it doesn’t exist, or insist that it’s not nearly as bad as everyone makes it out to be. Of course there are _some_ good and courageous people in the city of Detroit. But the overwhelming majority of Detroit residents consistently fail the city and themselves. This is a city with a 25% high school graduation rate, and there hasn’t been anything even resembling a public outcry by the community to get this fixed. The people who actually care to do what it takes to gives their kids a proper life simply moved out of the city. Most of those who are left simply don’t care. 75% of the kids don’t graduate high school. I can assure you that these kids aren’t going out and working hard at jobs to respectfully raise a family through the virtue of hard work. Just spend some real time walking around Detroit looking for those hidden gems and you’ll likely figure out what those kids, and the parents that failed them, do for a living. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2010, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-detroit-really-that-messed-up/515202/93 "2010-02-19T14:59:51Z")
> [@Artista](#): > > Back in the winter of 2005 i was contracted to work in the urban areas of Detroit for approx 3-4 days. Now, as a born and raised Chicagoan, Ive been to some of the worst parts of our city but i still wasn’t prepared for Detroit. To this day i am angered by what CORPORATE/CEO GREED can do to a once prosperous city. Corporate incompetence, not greed. > [@](#): > > Also, not a single Wal-Mart, k-mart, sears, shopping mall, circuit city etc. etc. in the entire 143 square miles within the city limits. Nothing. [O rly?](http://maps.google.com/maps?rls=com.microsoft:en-us&oe=UTF-8&um=1&ie=UTF-8&q=detroit+wal-mart&fb=1&gl=us&hq=wal-mart&hnear=detroit&ei=h6d-S8CqGtOWtgfHnemiDw&sa=X&oi=local_group&ct=image&resnum=5&ved=0CCgQtgMwBA) :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2010, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-detroit-really-that-messed-up/515202/94 "2010-02-19T15:03:47Z")
The city is quite bad, but the suburbs aren’t. I’ve lived in Michigan nearly my entire life and the surrounding area isn’t too bad. Detroit does have a downtown area that is nice. Greektown is still nice in many places. ---
**Author:** ![crazyjoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f14d63/32.png) [@crazyjoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crazyjoe)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2010, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-detroit-really-that-messed-up/515202/95 "2010-02-19T16:05:50Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Corporate incompetence, not greed. > > [O rly?](http://maps.google.com/maps?rls=com.microsoft:en-us&oe=UTF-8&um=1&ie=UTF-8&q=detroit+wal-mart&fb=1&gl=us&hq=wal-mart&hnear=detroit&ei=h6d-S8CqGtOWtgfHnemiDw&sa=X&oi=local_group&ct=image&resnum=5&ved=0CCgQtgMwBA) :dubious: She said within the city limits. None of those Wal-Marts are within the city limits, they are in the suburbs like Roseville, Livonia, Plymouth, etc. But thanks for showing us all how much you know about the Detroit area. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2010, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-detroit-really-that-messed-up/515202/96 "2010-02-19T16:07:54Z")
Okay, fine. [Here](http://maps.google.com/maps?rls=com.microsoft:en-us&oe=UTF-8&um=1&ie=UTF-8&q=detroit+wal-mart&fb=1&gl=us&hq=wal-mart&hnear=detroit&ei=h6d-S8CqGtOWtgfHnemiDw&sa=X&oi=local_group&ct=image&resnum=5&ved=0CCgQtgMwBA) are some Kroger locations which are in the city limits. ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2010, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-detroit-really-that-messed-up/515202/97 "2010-02-19T16:11:00Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > The city is quite bad, but the suburbs aren’t. I’ve lived in Michigan nearly my entire life and the surrounding area isn’t too bad. > > Detroit does have a downtown area that is nice. Greektown is still nice in many places. I’ve only visited Detroit, but my impression is that the metro area is shaped like half a doughnut. There’s a nice downtown, which gets empty at weekends; there’s the rest of the city of Detroit, which looks like the aftermath of a strategic bombing campaign, and there’s a half ring of decent suburbs. But it’s only half a doughnut because of the Detroit River: on the south-eastern side of the river is Windsor, which should be a mirror image if the same social and economic forces were in operation. But it’s not: the inner suburbs of Windsor look like attractive places to live. So my solution would be for the State of Michigan to donate the City of Detroit to the Province of Ontario, and let whatever magic Canada has to do the trick in Detroit. Of course, Ontario might well reject the offer 😃 ---
**Author:** ![2ply](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/2/b2d939/32.png) [@2ply](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/2ply)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2010, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-detroit-really-that-messed-up/515202/98 "2010-02-19T16:37:56Z")
If it would sweetin the deal for Ottawa, I’d be willing to throw in the entire state of Michigan. Sure, it’s a fixer-upper, but it has great revenue potential. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2010, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-detroit-really-that-messed-up/515202/99 "2010-02-19T17:12:08Z")
The public transportation in Detroit has been horrible since GM got the city to tear up the electric street cars. The buses are huge and don’t have many passengers. They need mini-buses in slow times. I believe they used to run every 20 minutes, now it is guesswork. They have tax problems and keep cutting back services. They suburbs have lost tax base. They are trying to pay for their police departments by writing tickets. The local news has been running stories on speed traps and suburbs that have more than doubled their ticket output the last year or so. ---
**Author:** ![JWWJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f07891/32.png) [@JWWJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JWWJ)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2010, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-detroit-really-that-messed-up/515202/100 "2010-02-19T20:36:49Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Okay, fine. [Here](http://maps.google.com/maps?rls=com.microsoft:en-us&oe=UTF-8&um=1&ie=UTF-8&q=detroit+wal-mart&fb=1&gl=us&hq=wal-mart&hnear=detroit&ei=h6d-S8CqGtOWtgfHnemiDw&sa=X&oi=local_group&ct=image&resnum=5&ved=0CCgQtgMwBA) are some Kroger locations which are in the city limits. Again, not a single one of those kroger locations are in Detroit. Read the city names by the little dots on the map. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-detroit-really-that-messed-up/515202.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-detroit-really-that-messed-up/515202.md?page=6)