# Is "dice" a singular noun in the UK? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 7, 2009, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-dice-a-singular-noun-in-the-uk/509205 "2009-09-07T22:16:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 8\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2009, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-dice-a-singular-noun-in-the-uk/509205/41 "2009-09-08T18:45:35Z")
> [@InvisibleWombat](#): > > It seems to me that it makes much more sense to leave the singular alone and create a regular plural (one die, two dies), because: > > 1. That’s already the case with other meanings of the noun “die” > > 2. It’s consistent with pie/pies, lie/lies, tie/ties… Yes, that would be logical. However, there are some words where the plural form seems to predominate, and so it takes over the singular form. “Data” and “you” have already been mentioned: a more extreme case is “agenda”, for a list of things to be done, which is a plural in the original Latin. However, the singular “agendum” is never used in English except as a linguistic joke, “agenda” is the singular form in English, and the plural is “agendas”. Languages are not always completely logical. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2009, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-dice-a-singular-noun-in-the-uk/509205/42 "2009-09-08T18:45:57Z")
> [@Giles](#): > > **Dr. Drake** , your explanation of the history is interesting, and explains where “dice” comes from. However, the fact remains that die/dice is an irregular plural in present-day English with no parallel construction. “Bodice” may have a parallel history, but in present-day English the singular is “bodice” and the plural is “bodices”. And that’s the direction that I think “dice” may be heading in: “dice” and “dices”. I agree with everything you say in this post. The phrasing of the earlier post suggested some assumptions that I wanted to clarify; it wasn’t clear that your mouse / mice analogy was entirely synchronic. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2009, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-dice-a-singular-noun-in-the-uk/509205/43 "2009-09-08T19:10:11Z")
> [@InvisibleWombat](#): > > singular “y’all” plural “all y’all” > > Where the heck is THAT one going next? I thought “y’all” did not have primarily a singular meaning for true y’all-dialect speakers, and that this sort of usage was a Yankee bastardization. (And I’ve had Southerners tell me “y’all” is always plural, too.) The distinction between “y’all” and “all y’all” is akin to the difference between “you (pl)” and “all of you (pl),” a sort of emphatic that stresses all the individuals in a group, rather than the group itself. Have things changed or are there dialects that do use the words the way you describe above? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2009, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-dice-a-singular-noun-in-the-uk/509205/44 "2009-09-08T19:30:14Z")
A similar phenomenon can be seen with “children”. The singular, of course, is “child”. In Dutch, the plural was formed regularly according to Dutch rules as “childer”. Then, when it got to older forms of English, they further pluralized it using the standard Old English plural ending -en (also seen in “oxen” and “brethren”), to “child(e)ren”. And now, in some dialects, it’s getting the standard modern English plural ending, too, and becoming “childrens”. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2009, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-dice-a-singular-noun-in-the-uk/509205/45 "2009-09-08T19:51:59Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > Not I. Die = singular, dice= plural. Another Brit here. I know this is correct, but it just _doesn’t work anymore_ - ‘die’ as the singular of dice is: -Too easily misunderstood as a confusing reference to death -Too scarcely understood as the singular of ‘dice’ -In and of itself, a more quiet little word than ‘dice’ and therefore often just slips through the cracks of the conversation unnoticed. So I usually say ‘dice’, inwardly hurting because I know it’s incorrect. ---
**Author:** ![Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cc9497/32.png) [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt.Ridley_s_Shooting_Party)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2009, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-dice-a-singular-noun-in-the-uk/509205/46 "2009-09-08T20:00:29Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > A similar phenomenon can be seen with “children”. The singular, of course, is “child”. In Dutch, the plural was formed regularly according to Dutch rules as “childer”. Then, when it got to older forms of English, they further pluralized it using the standard Old English plural ending -en (also seen in “oxen” and “brethren”), to “child(e)ren”. And now, in some dialects, it’s getting the standard modern English plural ending, too, and becoming “childrens”. Weirdly, “childer” is still alive in some parts of the UK. My Grandma used to pluralise children as childer, and you still here it back home amongst old people. ---
**Author:** ![Carmady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f04885/32.png) [@Carmady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carmady)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2009, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-dice-a-singular-noun-in-the-uk/509205/47 "2009-09-08T20:19:22Z")
I don’t think I ever use “die”, except to jokingly correct people who use “dice.” It sounds wrong. Instead I say “one of the dice” or just “it” when the context is clear. ---
**Author:** ![TBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c89c15/32.png) [@TBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TBG)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2009, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-dice-a-singular-noun-in-the-uk/509205/48 "2009-09-08T21:30:05Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > I’ve heard it many times while playing board games as a kid and teenager. I would say “dice” was the default singular where I grew up (Chicago, 80s to 90s). I don’t think I heard “die” for singular until one of my friends started playing D&D. > > I personally use “die” for the singular now, but I had to relearn it. Michigan 70’s and 80’s, but pretty much the same thing. Dice as singular with board games until a little dabbling in RPG’s introduced me to die. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-dice-a-singular-noun-in-the-uk/509205.md?page=2)