# Is Diogenes a pretentious bombast? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 6, 2011, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-diogenes-a-pretentious-bombast/566549 "2011-01-06T00:20:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2011, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-diogenes-a-pretentious-bombast/566549/1 "2011-01-06T00:20:08Z")
Surely I’m not the only one to find **Diogenes the Cynic** insufferably pretentious. He certainly has a very high opinion of his own knowledge. Many of his posts have precious phrases like “Modern scholars agree …” but I don’t think I’ve _ever_ seen a single Diogenes post with any citation or URL. I suppose he thinks his own opinion is all that’s needed to justify the phrase “Modern scholars agree” and that his own hurried writing on SDMB is its own self-sufficient citation. :smack: I’m not qualified to evaluate Diogenes’ competence, if any, at archaeological or Biblical scholarship, but some recent posts demonstrate he’s incapable of following plain English. Consider the following dialog in a recent thread about Jesus’ historicity. > [@Resolved: Jesus did not exist](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-jesus-did-not-exist/566230/23): > > Is it not widely agreed that the Nativity stories (present in only 1 or 2 of the Gospels) are fictional embellishments? To reject an historic Jesus based on inconsistencies in the Nativity stories would be like rejecting an historic George Washington if the cherry tree story were proven false… Most other participants seemed to agree that the Nativity stories were probably contrived and should not be the focus of a historicity debate. But even if someone disagrees with this point of view, it shouldn’t be hard to understand that it is the position one is addressing. Yet flaws in the infancy stories seem to be all **Diogenes** wants to talk about! (Perhaps he’d use the cherry-tree myth to disprove George Washington’s existence. 😃 – I’m being silly now, of course, yet that is the conclusion we’d derive from **Diogenes** ’ continued comments.) > [@Resolved: Jesus did not exist](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-jesus-did-not-exist/566230/51): > > The biggest contradictions and errors in the Gospels … For instance. Luke sets Jesus’ birth ten years later than Matthew, contradicts Matthew’s nativity in a plethora of other ways (starting with Joseph’s genealogy) , and both nativities are chock full of plainly ahistorical details… OK. If he’d read the thread for comprehension, he’d know others in the thread already know this much, but he wants to reiterate it. Fine. I’ll elide some responses to **Diogenes** that reiterate why the Nativity contradictions are of little interest. > [@Resolved: Jesus did not exist](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-jesus-did-not-exist/566230/56): > > … What I’ve said (multiple times) is that if you’ve actually got an “obvious fabrications and errors”, “contradictions”, or “historical make believe” that you want me to look at, I’ll be happy to look at it. But first you’ve got to tell me what it is. You’ve mentioned the instances in the infancy narratives of Luke and Matthew; **septimus** has already responded and explained why that tells us nothing about the other material in the Gospels. Other than [flaws in the infancy narratives], you haven’t given me any examples of obvious fabrications or errors, so I can’t tell you how I feel about them. Check the original thread to confirm that the following _non sequitur_ response by **Diogenes** is intended to directly answer ITR’s post just shown. > [@Resolved: Jesus did not exist](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-jesus-did-not-exist/566230/57): > > I can give you plenty. I’ll do them one at a time. Let’s start with the contradiction in the dating of Jesus’ birth. Why do Matthew and Luke have their nativities ten years apart? Was Jesus born during the reign of Herod the Great or was he born ten years after Herod died during the census of Quirinus? Which is it? So we have a self-avowed world-class scholar (whose opinions are their own sufficient citation) but he doesn’t understand that “infancy narratives” include narratives about the infancy? Confused, septimus and ITR call this to **Diogenes** ’ attention: > [@Resolved: Jesus did not exist](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-jesus-did-not-exist/566230/61): > > I’d certainly consider the nativity dates to be parts of the “infancy narratives”, so wonder if Diogenes’ browser skipped a message or something > [@Resolved: Jesus did not exist](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-jesus-did-not-exist/566230/64): > > What **septimus** said. Please read my posts and pay attention to what I actually say. But **Diogenes** is capable only of another _non sequitur_: > [@Resolved: Jesus did not exist](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-jesus-did-not-exist/566230/69): > > I certainly missed it if you explained the contradiction. **septimus** and others _did_ give explanations for the contradiction. (To summarize yet one more time for **Diogenes** ’ benefit, the infancy narratives are fictional.) But that’s not the point. The point is that repeating over and over and over and over the same flaws in the infancy narratives is not responsive, when answering people who have specifically excluded them from further consideration. > [@Resolved: Jesus did not exist](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-jesus-did-not-exist/566230/70): > > I have read your posts. Neither of you has explained this particular contradiction. Was Jesus born during the reign of Herod or was he born ten years later during the census of Quirinius? > Which it it? It can’t be both. Matthew and Luke cannot both be right. At least one of them is wrong. Which is it? And again!! Even if **Diogenes** is the world’s fastest typist and rewrote this tedious and repetitious babble in five seconds, he could have invested that five seconds more wisely by reading the posts he’s responding to. No one cares about the flaws in the fictional infancy narratives, as **septimus** said in his very first post! Instead, we have yet again: > [@Resolved: Jesus did not exist](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-jesus-did-not-exist/566230/90): > > I have no idea what you’re talking about. Can you refute the contradiction or can’t you?.. > [and in response to septimus’ intention to ignore future Diogenes’ pontifications if not accompanied with citations :] > Run away, run away. One gets the impression, that when **Diogenes** deigns to speak, no matter how wrong or irrelevant his utterance, we mere mortals all need to bend over and kiss his ass. But before I bend over, I’d like to see the slightest evidence that he’s intelligent enough to even comprehend the posts he responds to. ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2011, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-diogenes-a-pretentious-bombast/566549/2 "2011-01-06T00:28:32Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > Surely I’m not the only one to find **Diogenes the Cynic** insufferably pretentious. Surely not indeed. He’s one of the most commonly pitted people on the board, if not _the_ most commonly pitted person. And he’s always pitted for precisely the reasons you cited. I don’t have a problem with him. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2011, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-diogenes-a-pretentious-bombast/566549/3 "2011-01-06T00:39:04Z")
For once, I think the weekly \*\*Dio \*\*pitting is ill aimed. \*\*Dio \*\*is and does everything you say, but he \*does \*know his Bible and Biblical history, better than most Christians I know. Credit where credit is due. ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2011, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-diogenes-a-pretentious-bombast/566549/4 "2011-01-06T00:39:41Z")
I do when the mods have clearly stated that he operates under a different set of rules than everyone else. ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2011, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-diogenes-a-pretentious-bombast/566549/5 "2011-01-06T00:41:20Z")
He was right. And you referred to yourself in the third person. ---
**Author:** ![Mtgman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5a626/32.png) [@Mtgman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mtgman)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2011, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-diogenes-a-pretentious-bombast/566549/6 "2011-01-06T00:47:36Z")
I can tolerate a bit of pretentiousness when it’s coupled with accuracy. Defensiveness when it’s combined with backpedaling is more odious IMO. Enjoy, Steven ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2011, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-diogenes-a-pretentious-bombast/566549/7 "2011-01-06T00:48:47Z")
This is one of those times when my brain shorts out from cognitive dissonance. **Diogenes The Cynic** gets pitted an average of three times an hour over the course of many years as far as I can tell but every so often, I feel compelled to through on an old bath towel as a cape and come to his defense because he is correct sometimes. He does know religious history and he defeated his opponent in that debate. IIRC, he has an academic background in the subject and he is an atheist or an agnostic so everything he said was just based on what is known by scholars. This is a bad thing to pit him for. **Diogenes The Cynic** is an acquired taste. He wants you to hate him but I think he is pretty funny, grounded, and knowledgeable about some things and this is one of them. When you have to fight fire with better fire, he is often your man. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2011, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-diogenes-a-pretentious-bombast/566549/8 "2011-01-06T00:51:12Z")
I love **Dio** when he’s posting about the bible. He knows his shit and I learn when he posts on that subject. On the other hand, if he’s talking about sex or sports or music or… ---
**Author:** ![Asympotically\_fat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e47c2d/32.png) [@Asympotically\_fat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asympotically_fat)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2011, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-diogenes-a-pretentious-bombast/566549/9 "2011-01-06T00:53:45Z")
I think if the atheists ever got themselves organised into a proper hierachy he would defo be entitled to a bishopric. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2011, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-diogenes-a-pretentious-bombast/566549/10 "2011-01-06T01:03:26Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > This is a bad thing to pit him for. **Diogenes The Cynic** is an acquired taste. He wants you to hate him but I think he is pretty funny, grounded, and knowledgeable about some things and this is one of them. When you have to fight fire with better fire, he is often your man. Definitely. I disagree with him over pretty much everything, but he’s one of the more amusing posters around. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2011, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-diogenes-a-pretentious-bombast/566549/11 "2011-01-06T01:13:56Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > **Diogenes The Cynic** is an acquired taste. Yes. Like gorgonzola, gueuze, and ass-to-mouth. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2011, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-diogenes-a-pretentious-bombast/566549/12 "2011-01-06T01:19:04Z")
For the record, I never rejected a historical Jesus in that thread or in any other thread. I was responding to a request by **ITR** to show contradictions and errors in the Gospels. I saw no reason to exclude the nativity narratives from that request just because the OP did. ---
**Author:** ![PlainJain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/5daacb/32.png) [@PlainJain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PlainJain)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2011, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-diogenes-a-pretentious-bombast/566549/13 "2011-01-06T01:19:12Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > **septimus** and others _did_ give explanations for the contradiction. > \ > No one cares about the flaws in the fictional infancy narratives, as **septimus** said in his very first post! Just curious, why are you posting in the third person? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2011, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-diogenes-a-pretentious-bombast/566549/14 "2011-01-06T01:21:21Z")
Oh, and neither 3rd person **septimus** or anyone else gave an explanation for the contradiction. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Barchetta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/da6949/32.png) [@Red\_Barchetta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Barchetta)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2011, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-diogenes-a-pretentious-bombast/566549/15 "2011-01-06T01:31:34Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > He does know religious history and he defeated his opponent in that debate. What annoys me about Dio is his apparent belief that he wins \*every \* argument. It is good to see that his posts have have occasional merit though. Oh, and to answer the question in the subject: Yes. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2011, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-diogenes-a-pretentious-bombast/566549/16 "2011-01-06T01:32:02Z")
> [@PlainJain](#): > > Just curious, why are you posting in the third person? I think I tend to do that here, without much thought and without thinking it weird. Since my post contains other posts by **septimus** , it seems a way to make the content slightly clearer (no need to remember an “I = septimus” equation). But two responses here tell me it’s weird so I’ll try to avoid this in future. I hope the usage doesn’t make me seem … pretentious! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Meatros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Meatros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meatros)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2011, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-diogenes-a-pretentious-bombast/566549/17 "2011-01-06T01:32:21Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > For the record, I never rejected a historical Jesus in that thread or in any other thread. . Came here to say this about Dio. ---
**Author:** ![MsWhatsit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb8c5e/32.png) [@MsWhatsit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsWhatsit)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2011, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-diogenes-a-pretentious-bombast/566549/18 "2011-01-06T01:33:19Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > Since my post contains other posts by **septimus** what. ---
**Author:** ![Meatros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Meatros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meatros)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2011, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-diogenes-a-pretentious-bombast/566549/19 "2011-01-06T01:34:27Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Oh, and neither 3rd person **septimus** or anyone else gave an explanation for the contradiction. In fairness, I think Septimus would acknowledge that it was a contradiction. I can’t recall ITR’s stance though. I’m also uncertain of third person Septimus’s opinion… 😃 ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2011, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-diogenes-a-pretentious-bombast/566549/20 "2011-01-06T01:45:50Z")
> [@Meatros](#): > > In fairness, I think Septimus would acknowledge that it was a contradiction. I can’t recall ITR’s stance though. I’m also uncertain of third person Septimus’s opinion… 😃 _Everyone_ seems to agree that said contradictory stories _are fictional_ and therefore that it’s silly to discuss the contradictions. That’s the whole point. **Diogenes** ’ Bible knowledge is not the issue here, just his failure to understand the inanity of the dialog: D: Explain the infancy narrative contradictions! S: Those narratives are just fictional. D: No, You must explain the infancy narrative contradictions!! S: We all know those narratives are just fictional. D: Explain the infancy narrative contradictions now !!! S: Are you reading our responses? D: Explain the infancy narrative contradictions!!! S: _Please_ read our responses! D: Explain the infancy narrative contradictions!!! S: You really are too self-centered to even read what you’re responding to, aren’t you? D: Explain the infancy narrative contradictions!!! [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-diogenes-a-pretentious-bombast/566549.md?page=2)