# Is Disney committing corporate suicide? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [February 1, 2004, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-disney-committing-corporate-suicide/226986 "2004-02-01T02:49:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2004, 7:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-disney-committing-corporate-suicide/226986/21 "2004-02-01T07:15:42Z")
> [@Earthling](#): > > One small correction: Merrie Melodies comes from Warner Brothers, not Disney. I think **Ale** was thinking of _Silly Symphonies_ > [@Earthling](#): > > Boy, what if Sony and Apple eventually merged? Snapple? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![The\_Controvert](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dec6dc/32.png) [@The\_Controvert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Controvert)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2004, 9:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-disney-committing-corporate-suicide/226986/22 "2004-02-01T09:02:22Z")
I just hope Disney would merge with The Late Show with Conan O’Brien… then you’d have _The Masturbating Country Bears_😃 (sorry, chalk this up to posts that seem funny at 3am) ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2004, 9:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-disney-committing-corporate-suicide/226986/23 "2004-02-01T09:14:28Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > Disney Studios appears to be making a lot of what look like boneheaded decisions lately, such as [not renewing their contract with Pixar](http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/business/7842718.htm) and > [shutting down their 2D animation studios](http://slashdot.org/articles/03/11/10/0549246.shtml?tid=186), and I’m not even going to mention their now long-standing tradition of releasing insipid sequels direct-to-video. To be fair to Disney, Pixar’s end of negotiations caught them flat-footed. The first time Disney even heard the talks were off was when they heard it via the news media. Not much else to add to this discussion thathasn’t already been said; Disney has been coasting for years, and it either needs a mercy killing or a radical revamp. Pixar is currently riding high in the catbird seat – there’s no reason to believe they can’t do great movies with any other studio, as long as John Lasseter is given free rein – and Eisner should have been offering everything down to free blowjobs to keep them with Disney. The shift to all-CGI movies at Disney sounds short-sighted to me, especially since the now-dead Florida studio was producing some quality stuff earlier ( **Mulan** and **Lilo and Stitch** ). Then there’s penny-pinching at the parks, along with the whole _California Adventure_ fiasco, and… eh, let’s just say Eisner’s long past his prime. Dunno what’s gonna happen next, but I’d love to see Walt Disney’s ghost come back from the great beyond and get medieval on Eisner’s ass. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Duderdude2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/cdc98d/32.png) [@Duderdude2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duderdude2)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2004, 9:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-disney-committing-corporate-suicide/226986/24 "2004-02-01T09:29:15Z")
> [@rjung](#): > > Then there’s penny-pinching at the parks, along with the whole _California Adventure_ fiasco, and… eh, let’s just say Eisner’s long past his prime. Hey now, I’m no fan of Eisner, but I love Disney’s California Adventure (especially with Tower of Terror opening in a few weeks). And to cut this off at the pass, I’m not naive when it comes to theme parks either; I’ve been to Disney World 8 times, Disneyland 3, Universal Studios Florida once and US Hollywood twice, and several 6 Flags. DCA is just a vastly different experience than Disney’s other parks. ---
**Author:** ![Termital](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Termital](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Termital)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2004, 11:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-disney-committing-corporate-suicide/226986/25 "2004-02-01T11:55:42Z")
Well, I’ll be the odd one out and saythat I didn’t like any of the mentioned films/cartoons mentioned that were made in the last 30 years, but that’s just me. Now, doesn’t Disney own the great Ghibli studios ( of _Princess Mononoko_ fame)? Are they to be abandoned as well? Losing their home team isn’t much of a loss anyway, since it’s steadily less profitable and more expensive from the time the Lion King onwards? And artistically, they died before the Nixon administration. Similarly, the live movies were always pathetic, meant to be at best late saturday morning cartoon filler and now not even that. But shouldn’t we give them some slack for owning Miramax (Scream, lots of pretentious movies and the occasional good one)? Also, other company liabilities, like Eurodisney seem to be going better. Overall, Disney is a holdings company now, and as such has no ‘core’ business, only vague interest sectors, and people running in the corridors muttering ‘synergy’. And in that respect, losing Pixar is not a sign of Armageddon. It’s still a loss however, and it’s obvious to all but the stockholders that this company would be better off killing the whole board of directors. Not that luck of leadership has killed off the Netscape/AOL/CNN/Time/Warner/EMI conglomerate… 😃 . But even then the concept of Disney taking risks seems farfetched. I think that they are the example given in The Bussinessman’s dictionary for “risk-averse”. Perhaps they should acquire some insurance companies. I’m sure they have some great Scrooge vault and Donald disaster clips they could use in the ad campaigns. P.S. Forgot to mention the [Go.com](http://Go.com) fiasco. ---
**Author:** ![Profane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e47774/32.png) [@Profane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Profane)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2004, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-disney-committing-corporate-suicide/226986/26 "2004-02-01T14:21:16Z")
Disney doesn’t own Ghibli, they just have distribution rights iirc. I say good for Pixar I’ve been a fan since pre Toy Story days. They deserve much better than Disney’s been giving them. ---
**Author:** ![Eutychus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Eutychus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eutychus)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2004, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-disney-committing-corporate-suicide/226986/27 "2004-02-01T15:51:50Z")
There’s much more going on here than anyone (including myself) realizes, and I assume there is much more corporate manipulation going on. Firstly, Pixar and Disney really need each other. Pixar is a good company, but they’re not really a “big name” company yet. They need Disney for promotion because when they get down and dirty with it, nobody promotes their animation product like Disney does. But Disney hasn’t has a huge animation hit in a while and the animation departments they haven’t let go are stagnating. They have a fledgling CG department, but they don’t have the talent that Pixar does. Unfortunately, Disney owns the rights to both Toy Story and Monsters, Inc. Sequels to both are rumored to be in process and Disney going them alone can only screw them up badly. And I think deep in their hearts they know that. Pixar can afford to wait. They still have two years left on their contract with Disney and anything could happen in that time. Even though they’ve had a number of courters, the word I get is that Pixar is not currently in serious negotiions with anyone. Here’s where it gets interesting. Roy Disney (Walt Disney’s nephew) has recently resigned from the board of the Walt Disney Company along with fellow member Stanley Gold. They were prohibited from speaking out against Michael Eisner as long as they were board members, but since they’ve left have mounted an [fairly intense campaign to oust Eisner at the next shareholders meeting on March 3rd](http://www.savedisney.com). Since this announcement was made so close to the annual shareholders meeting, the feeling is that Pixar is aligning itself with the Roy Disney camp and are going to use this (along with the losing of Winnie the Pooh rights and an upcoming lawsuit about Who Framed Roger Rabbit proceeds) as leverage to oust Eisner, at which time they will come back with a new Disney partnership; possibly some sort of merger with (dare I say it?) Steve Jobs as the new CEO at Disney. It’s also going to be an interesting time at the Academy Awards this year. “Destino”, the Disney / Dali collaboration is up for an Oscar as Best Animated Short. This was a project pushed along by Roy Disney. So Eisner can’t really do an agressive push for this film because it would run the risk of giving Roy a soapbox at the Oscars. many people feel that Roy is too much of a gentleman to do this at the Oscar ceremony, but would definitely use it as a chip at the shareholders meeting. THIS could get interesting. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2004, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-disney-committing-corporate-suicide/226986/28 "2004-02-01T16:10:08Z")
> [@Diceman](#): > > Have they done any good movies recently that did not come thru Pixar? What was the last live-action Disney movie? The last one would be Mirimax’s “Cold Mountain” (or maybe “My Baby’s Daddy”…I forget which one came out first). I believe the last film put out by the Disney label was the remake of “Freaky Friday”, but they have “Miracle”, starring Kurt Russell, about the 1980 US Olympic team, coming out Friday. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2004, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-disney-committing-corporate-suicide/226986/30 "2004-02-01T16:30:42Z")
> [@Eutychus](#): > > Firstly, Pixar and Disney really need each other. Well, Pixar needs Disney a lot more than Disney needs Pixar. Pixar needs Disney for the reasons you mentioned, but Disney doesn’t, from a financial standpoint, need its animation division anymore (from an emotional and historical standpoint, it might). ---
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2004, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-disney-committing-corporate-suicide/226986/31 "2004-02-01T16:40:08Z")
> [@Volta](#): > > Did you forget _Pirates of the Caribbean_? It was a Jerry Bruckheimer production but released by Disney. Or does that not count? Yeah, I did forget, actually :smack: I’m going to have to rent that when it comes out on DVD. _Haunted Mansion_ and the new _Freaky Friday_ are nigh-universally agreed to be forgettable pieces of crap. I didn’t know that Disnay had a hand in _Cold Mountain_. ---
**Author:** ![Eutychus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Eutychus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eutychus)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2004, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-disney-committing-corporate-suicide/226986/32 "2004-02-01T17:28:09Z")
> [@Diceman](#): > > Yeah, I did forget, actually :smack: I’m going to have to rent that when it comes out on DVD. > > _Haunted Mansion_ and the new _Freaky Friday_ are nigh-universally agreed to be forgettable pieces of crap. . Hardly. _Freaky Friday_ was a cheapy to make comparitively. It only cost 26 million and has so far grossed over 110 million, and is doing reasonably well in it’s DVD release. There was also talk that Jamie Lee Curtis should have at least been nominated for an Oscar as she was for the Golden Globe. Opinions vary as to whether the movie itself was “crap” but business-wise it was one of Disney’s biggest successes this year. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2004, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-disney-committing-corporate-suicide/226986/33 "2004-02-01T17:29:29Z")
> [@Diceman](#): > > . I didn’t know that Disnay had a hand in _Cold Mountain_. Disney owns Miramax Studios, which made Cold Mountain. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2004, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-disney-committing-corporate-suicide/226986/34 "2004-02-01T17:51:13Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > Eventually Disney’s going to run out of rides to base their live-actions on. Personally, I’m predicting that Disney will collapse in five years’ time when angry torch-wielding mobs burn down their corporate headquarters following the release of _It’s a Small World: The Movie_. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2004, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-disney-committing-corporate-suicide/226986/35 "2004-02-01T18:21:35Z")
Wait a minute… A company that’s built on its animation is shutting down all work on their 2-d animation, and parting ways with the folks who did their 3-d? Isn’t that sort of like a hamburger, with no bun, and hold the beef? Pickles, onions, and special sauce don’t get you too far by themselves. Quoth **Achernar** : > [@](#): > > I imagine that ever since Beauty and the Beast, CGI has become more and more a part of animated films, and more and more difficult to distinguish from non-CGI. Even further back. The big elegant staircase in _The Little Mermaid_ was computerized, and I think that there were some CG shots of distant traffic in _Lady and the Tramp_. But I would call _The Lion King_ the milestone, because for the first time, you couldn’t tell that it was done on computer. As for Pixar, I would absolutely say that they’re a Big Name now, and can survive (and even thrive) without Disney. When I think of _Toy Story_ or _Finding Nemo_, I don’t think Disney. I think Pixar. And wasn’t _Shrek_ Pixar without Disney? ---
**Author:** ![Eutychus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Eutychus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eutychus)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2004, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-disney-committing-corporate-suicide/226986/36 "2004-02-01T18:29:17Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Quoth **Achernar** :Even further back. The big elegant staircase in _The Little Mermaid_ was computerized, and I think that there were some CG shots of distant traffic in _Lady and the Tramp_. But I would call _The Lion King_ the milestone, because for the first time, you couldn’t tell that it was done on computer. _Lady and the Tramp_ was made well before CG was being even thought of. The first Disney movie to use any CG was _The Great Mouse Detective_ with it’s internal views of the tower of Big Ben. > [@](#): > > As for Pixar, I would absolutely say that they’re a Big Name now, and can survive (and even thrive) without Disney. When I think of _Toy Story_ or _Finding Nemo_, I don’t think Disney. I think Pixar. And wasn’t _Shrek_ Pixar without Disney? _Shrek_ was Dreamworks. But it’s a good example of what someone besides Pixar can do. I just don’t think that Disney has the talent yet to pull off a good CG film. (Anybody remember _Dinosaur_?) And I don’t think that Pixar (yet) has the marketing pull that the Disney name does. The problem is that with their closing of their 2-D shops, Disney is putting _all_ of their eggs in the CG market, which so far they are just not ready for. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2004, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-disney-committing-corporate-suicide/226986/37 "2004-02-01T18:54:12Z")
My take as a long time Disney watcher is that Eisner has to go. He has gone from savior to egomaniac (and he may have been an egomaniac all along, but he did take the company out of doldrums as bad as any they are in now). Also that fortunes are cyclical. Disney is in no worse shape now than they were in the 1970s (the Herbie movies? A series of lackluster animation that lost money?). The late 1980s and early 1990s were particularly good to them, they had the market cornered on mainstream animation in a time when it became hugely popular, they were able to take advantage of changes in technology - first by moving their movies to VHS, then DVD. The mini baby boom made their products very popular, and cable allowed them to extend their reach. And they went through great expansion - theme parks, hotels, cruiselines, ABC, ESPN, record companies, publishing outfits, Broadway shows But the world is changing. There is more competition for traditional (and non-traditional) animation, and the market is not as hot as it was. Its more difficult for a company to be diverse than it was - the ABC acquisition never went well. They have a ton of hotel rooms in Orlando, and have been hit by a shrinking and more competative travel industry - it used to be that Disney had to maintain a few hotels in down times and the theme parks, now the hotels themselves can be a significant drain. They haven’t yet learned (but I think are starting to) that just because they are a 900 lb gorilla doesn’t mean they can’t lose lawsuits (i.e. Pooh) or bully people around in negotiations (i.e. Pixar) They’ve made some amazing missteps - missing out on LotRs (though I would have passed on three movies based on an unfilmable trilogy by some barely known splatter director myself - and they are getting something like 5% of the take for owning the rights in the first place, so its not all bad), dissing Pixar (even they had to know that for three years people have discussed Pixar being unhappy with their relationship with Disney - this is like having an All-Star rookie and continuing to pay him league minimum until he hits arbitration). But some good successes as well (their cruise line launched just six years ago and comes close to selling out or sells out almost every cruise. And ESPN is a powerhouse.) But Disney is part of the American landscape - it will change - all things do and it will have to. But Mickey Mouse will survive. He has become part of the American mythos. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2004, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-disney-committing-corporate-suicide/226986/38 "2004-02-01T19:14:32Z")
Heh…I’m wishing they’d televise the March 3 shareholders’ meeting. That’s some potentially amazing corporate soap opera right there. If I had some money, I’d buy a couple of shares of Disney stock right now just to have the right to the play-by-play… ---
**Author:** ![Yookeroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yookeroo/32/323_2.png) [@Yookeroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yookeroo)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2004, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-disney-committing-corporate-suicide/226986/39 "2004-02-01T19:56:10Z")
[Freaky Friday](http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/FreakyFriday-1124788/) had a Rotten Tomatoes rating of 89%. That’s a pretty good critical respnse. Disney live action movies have been pretty good lately. Aside from **Lilo & Stitch** , their home grown animation hasn’t been very good lately. A lot of the problems with the parks are 9/11 related. Letting Pixar go seems like an incredibly stupid decision, but until they make a deal with someone else, they’re not officially gone. ---
**Author:** ![dantheman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dantheman/32/9421_2.png) [@dantheman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dantheman)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2004, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-disney-committing-corporate-suicide/226986/40 "2004-02-01T20:34:17Z")
> [@Diceman](#): > > Yeah, I did forget, actually :smack: I’m going to have to rent that when it comes out on DVD. If you mean _PotC_, it’s out now. Enjoy! ---
**Author:** ![mobo85](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b19c9b/32.png) [@mobo85](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mobo85)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2004, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-disney-committing-corporate-suicide/226986/41 "2004-02-02T02:02:16Z")
Obviously, what will happen next is that one of the two, either Eisner or Disney, I don’t know which, will team up with a comical sidekick who’ll teach him what he really needs to bring Disney back out of its hole. Then, after a heroic battle and some catchy songs, Disney will live happily ever after…until they decide to make more money on it by doing a direct-to-video sequel. I’m sure that’s the way that will happen. I saw it in a movie by a studio made by some dead guy whose name I can’t remember. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-disney-committing-corporate-suicide/226986.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-disney-committing-corporate-suicide/226986.md?page=3)