# Is Donald Trump a Putin patsy? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [July 25, 2016, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-donald-trump-a-putin-patsy/760875 "2016-07-25T19:00:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 17
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2016, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-donald-trump-a-putin-patsy/760875/321 "2016-07-30T05:13:38Z")
Babruysk is a city in Belarus and is sometimes spelled Bobruisk. > **[Babruysk](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babruysk)** > > Babruysk (Belarusian: Бабруйск, IPA: \[bäˈbruɪ̯s̪k\]) or Bobruisk (Russian: Бобруйск, IPA: \[bɐˈbruɪ̯s̪k\]; Yiddish: באָברויסק, romanized: Bobroysk) is a city in Mogilev Region, eastern Belarus, situated on the Berezina River. As of 2022\[update\], its population was 209,675. Babruysk occupies an area of 66 square kilometres (25 sq mi), and comprises over 450 streets whose combined length stretches for over 430 km (267 mi). > Babruysk is located at the intersection of railroads to Asipovichy, Zhlobin,... ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2016, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-donald-trump-a-putin-patsy/760875/322 "2016-07-30T05:28:28Z")
bobruisk joined the board 07-26-2016, the day after this thread was started. His first post in this thread was that same day. They probably search Google for keywords, maybe Trump, Putin, and Patsy. This thread currently comes up third in Google for those terms. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2016, 6:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-donald-trump-a-putin-patsy/760875/323 "2016-07-30T06:19:17Z")
Banned name! ---
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2016, 7:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-donald-trump-a-putin-patsy/760875/324 "2016-07-30T07:39:44Z")
Put me down in the column that he’s an unwitting patsy. Trump only cares about enriching himself while he is in office and afterwards. Putin can certainly contribute to that, nobody knows Putin’s net worth but it’s estimated at around $200 billion. Trump is bush league compared to that. Trump think’s hes going to get the better of Putin and get “great deals” out of him, while Putin will play him for the amateur he is. On a tangent, does anyone else suspect that the whole reason that Trump is running for President is that he thinks there is a real chance he’ll get convicted under the Trump U scam or one of the other law suits against him and he’s counting on being able to pardon himself as President? Yeah I’m sure it feeds his ego as well, but he said he was going to run so many times before, what convinced him to actually do it this time? ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2016, 8:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-donald-trump-a-putin-patsy/760875/325 "2016-07-30T08:54:56Z")
Here’s a frightening, albeit unlikely, thought. Trump kept winning primaries, against all common sense. We know that Russia has some very skilled hackers. A good part of our country votes on computers… Nah, that’s too crazy. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2016, 9:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-donald-trump-a-putin-patsy/760875/326 "2016-07-30T09:05:32Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > Here’s a frightening, albeit unlikely, thought. > Trump kept winning primaries, against all common sense. > We know that Russia has some very skilled hackers. > A good part of our country votes on computers… > Nah, that’s too crazy. I would feel a lot better if that were the reason Trump won. But let’s examine it; of the states Trump won, which were computer based? ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2016, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-donald-trump-a-putin-patsy/760875/327 "2016-07-30T13:21:56Z")
I was thinking of approachiang the question exactly that way, but I think that you’d have to look at lower than the state level. I know that in my state, Pennsylvania, there’s a mix because voting technology is decided at the local level. I think it’s determined by the county but it may be even lower than that. I have no idea how to go about gathering the needed data at such low levels. And that leads us to a fundamental problem with the idea of hacking a national election, as opposed to local seats. Someone would have to hack hundreds of different technologies at thousands of separate precincts, without getting caught even once. I suppose that’s conceivable for a large modern state but, as I said, it’s unlikely. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2016, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-donald-trump-a-putin-patsy/760875/328 "2016-07-30T13:32:39Z")
I think it fair to conclude that Trump is not so much Putin’s deliberate patsy as he is a _[useful idiot](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Useful_idiot)_. Which could not be more applicable to the origins of the expression. I hope someone with a prominent twitter account hashtags this in context with Trump. Would love to see it go viral. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2016, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-donald-trump-a-putin-patsy/760875/329 "2016-07-30T15:20:54Z")
Lenin agreed with Lincoln regarding the unreliability of the internet. ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2016, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-donald-trump-a-putin-patsy/760875/330 "2016-07-31T21:47:48Z")
Donald Trump … well honestly, I don’t know how to describe this. He either doesn’t know or he’s just being dishonest about Putin in the Ukraine. From a Sunday Morning Talk show interview with George Stephanopolis, as reported on CNN > **[Trump says Putin is ‘not going to go into Ukraine,’ despite Crimea | CNN...](https://www.cnn.com/2016/07/31/politics/donald-trump-russia-ukraine-crimea-putin/)** > > Donald Trump said Sunday that Russian President Vladimir Putin won’t make a military move into Ukraine – even though Putin already has done just that, seizing the country’s Crimean Peninsula. > [@CNN article](#): > > “He’s not going into Ukraine, OK, just so you understand. He’s not going to go into Ukraine, all right? You can mark it down. You can put it down. You can take it anywhere you want,” Trump said in an interview with ABC’s George Stephanopoulos on “This Week.” > > “Well, he’s already there, isn’t he?” Stephanopoulos responded, in a reference to Crimea, which Putin took from Ukraine in early 2014. > > Trump said: “OK – well, he’s there in a certain way. But I’m not there. You have Obama there. And frankly, that whole part of the world is a mess under Obama with all the strength that you’re talking about and all of the power of NATO and all of this. In the meantime, he’s going away. He takes Crimea.” Trump went on to repeat the Russian line that Ukrainians would really rather be Russian anyway, and beside’s, Obama’s NATO alliance has made a mess of the place. > [@same article](#): > > “I’m going to take a look at it,” he said. “But you know, the people of Crimea, from what I’ve heard, would rather be with Russia than where they were. And you have to look at that, also … just so you understand, that was done under Obama’s administration.” > > Trump added: “And as far as the Ukraine is concerned, it’s a mess. And that’s under the Obama’s administration with his strong ties to NATO. So with all of these strong ties to NATO, Ukraine is a mess. Crimea has been taken. Don’t blame Donald Trump for that.” It’s pretty clear that he’s carrying water for Vladimir Putin, I believe. A man he claims he doesn’t know. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2016, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-donald-trump-a-putin-patsy/760875/331 "2016-07-31T21:55:17Z")
> [@Merneith](#): > > Donald Trump … well honestly, I don’t know how to describe this. He either doesn’t know or he’s just being dishonest about Putin in the Ukraine. From a Sunday Morning Talk show interview with George Stephanopolis, as reported on CNN > > [http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/31/politics/donald-trump-russia-ukraine-crimea-putin/](http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/31/politics/donald-trump-russia-ukraine-crimea-putin/) > > Trump went on to repeat the Russian line that Ukrainians would really rather be Russian anyway, and beside’s, Obama’s NATO alliance has made a mess of the place. > > It’s pretty clear that he’s carrying water for Vladimir Putin, I believe. A man he claims he doesn’t know. The only thing that’s clear to me is that he is about as ignorant on world affairs as Sarah Palin, and possibly even less intellectually curious. Didn’t think that was possible, but here we are. ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2016, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-donald-trump-a-putin-patsy/760875/332 "2016-07-31T22:02:53Z")
Well, but he knows he enough about Crimea to know the Russian’s excuse for invading in the first place. And he knows enough about Ukraine to know that NATO and Obama are in the wrong there, just like the Russians say. He is a deeply ignorant man - but he knows the Russian party line. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2016, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-donald-trump-a-putin-patsy/760875/333 "2016-07-31T22:05:03Z")
Khizr Khan has pretty much ripped Trump to shreds. The Republicans has their Joe the Plumber, we’ve got our Khizr. I’m really getting to like this guy and his honest, no holds barred smack-downs of Trump. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2016, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-donald-trump-a-putin-patsy/760875/334 "2016-07-31T23:32:26Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > I think it fair to conclude that Trump is not so much Putin’s deliberate patsy as he is a _[useful idiot](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Useful_idiot)_. Which could not be more applicable to the origins of the expression. > > I hope someone with a prominent twitter account hashtags this in context with Trump. Would love to see it go viral. It would also be the first time anyone ever called Trump “useful”. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2016, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-donald-trump-a-putin-patsy/760875/335 "2016-08-01T01:31:13Z")
I’m truly beginning to believe that DJT is in some serious debt to “Russia”… Russian banks, pehaps an oligarch who loaned him $30-40 million, something. Because either is is completely insane or under severe pressure coming from a host of factors: debt, campaigning, all the negative publicity, even to his wife.likely dumping on him for the speech embarrassment. It’s like he’s being pressured to do something and is trying to sabotage the effort. Shit, who am I kidding? He’s just insane. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2016, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-donald-trump-a-putin-patsy/760875/336 "2016-08-01T01:34:48Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > I’m truly beginning to believe that DJT is in some serious debt to “Russia”… Russian banks, pehaps an oligarch who loaned him $30-40 million, something. > > Because either is is completely insane or under severe pressure coming from a host of factors: debt, campaigning, all the negative publicity, even to his wife.likely dumping on him for the speech embarrassment. > > It’s like he’s being pressured to do something and is trying to sabotage the effort. > > Shit, who am I kidding? He’s just insane. It’s scary that insanity is the _better_ option. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2016, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-donald-trump-a-putin-patsy/760875/337 "2016-08-01T02:23:45Z")
> [@Happy\_Lendervedder](#): > > The only thing that’s clear to me is that he is about as ignorant on world affairs as Sarah Palin, and possibly even less intellectually curious. Didn’t think that was possible, but here we are. If you read the New Yorker article about the author of Art of the Deal, it seems that Trump can’t concentrate on anything long enough to understand foreign policy - thus he like Twitter and TV News. So it night be a learning disability (which he won’t admit to) more than lack of curiosity. I’ll make it clear that this doesn’t prevent someone from learning - unless they reject the need to learn in an effective way. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2016, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-donald-trump-a-putin-patsy/760875/338 "2016-08-01T04:09:44Z")
"How Paul Manafort Wielded Power in Ukraine Before Advising Donald Trump’ [http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/01/us/paul-manafort-ukraine-donald-trump.html](http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/01/us/paul-manafort-ukraine-donald-trump.html) > [@](#): > > President Viktor F. Yanukovych, who owed his election to, as an American diplomat put it, an “extreme makeover” Mr. Manafort oversaw, bolted the country in the face of violent street protests. He found sanctuary in Russia and never returned, as his patron, President Vladimir V. Putin, proceeded to dismember Ukraine, annexing Crimea and fomenting a war in two other provinces that continues. > … > Within months of his client’s political demise, he went to work seeking to bring his disgraced party back to power, much as he had Mr. Yanukovych himself nearly a decade earlier. Mr. Manafort has already had some success, with former Yanukovych loyalists — and some Communists — forming a new bloc opposing Ukraine’s struggling pro-Western government. > > And now Mr. Manafort has taken on a much larger campaign, seeking to turn Donald J. Trump into a winning presidential candidate. > … > After disclosures of a breach of the Democratic National Committee’s emails — which American intelligence officials have linked to Russian spies — both men are facing sharp criticism over what is seen as an unusually sympathetic view of Mr. Putin and his policies toward Ukraine. That view has upended decades of party orthodoxy toward Russia, a country that the previous Republican presidential nominee, Mitt Romney, called “our No. 1 geopolitical foe.” ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2016, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-donald-trump-a-putin-patsy/760875/339 "2016-08-01T04:41:49Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > Khizr Khan has pretty much ripped Trump to shreds. The Republicans has their Joe the Plumber, we’ve got our Khizr. I’m really getting to like this guy and his honest, no holds barred smack-downs of Trump. I really don’t think that you can compare the two men. Joe the Plumber was a dishonest, self-centered idiot. Khizr Khan is anything but. ---
**Author:** ![glowacks](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/glowacks/32/5548_2.png) [@glowacks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glowacks)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2016, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-donald-trump-a-putin-patsy/760875/340 "2016-08-01T15:26:09Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > I really don’t think that you can compare the two men. Joe the Plumber was a dishonest, self-centered idiot. Khizr Khan is anything but. Yes, that’s exactly why the comparison is apt. The Republicans have their dishonest self-centered idiot being held up as an example of who their followers are, and the Democrats have Khan. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-donald-trump-a-putin-patsy/760875.md?page=16) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-donald-trump-a-putin-patsy/760875.md?page=18)