# Is Donald Trump a Putin patsy? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [July 25, 2016, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-donald-trump-a-putin-patsy/760875 "2016-07-25T19:00:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2016, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-donald-trump-a-putin-patsy/760875/41 "2016-07-26T03:35:34Z")
I could have also mentioned Alger Hiss but I’m sure you were already aware of that one. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2016, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-donald-trump-a-putin-patsy/760875/42 "2016-07-26T03:37:03Z")
“A shit, a very palpable shit!” ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2016, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-donald-trump-a-putin-patsy/760875/43 "2016-07-26T03:41:11Z")
Plus a long list of people who were actually proven spies: > **[List of American spies | Spied for USSR](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_American_spies#Spied_for_USSR)** > > 1.David Truong | > 2.Ronald Humphrey ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2016, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-donald-trump-a-putin-patsy/760875/44 "2016-07-26T03:46:24Z")
Well, a touch perhaps, but not a hit. Joe McCarthy used Hiss’ conviction to launch his “little list” but McCarthy had nothing to do with Hiss and no one on McCarthy’s list (which was really the Lee List) was ever convicted of anything due to McCarthy’s show. As I said - McCarthy’s charges were never backed up, unlike the multiple links that have been supplied claiming that Donald is personally connected to Vladimir Putin and Russian money. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2016, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-donald-trump-a-putin-patsy/760875/45 "2016-07-26T03:49:59Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Plus a long list of people who were actually proven spies: > > [List of American spies - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_American_spies#Spied_for_USSR) Which were in the State Dept? ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2016, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-donald-trump-a-putin-patsy/760875/46 "2016-07-26T03:55:46Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Plus a long list of people who were actually proven spies: > > [List of American spies - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_American_spies#Spied_for_USSR) Dude - no one doubts that there were actual Soviet spies. The point is - McCarthy didn’t catch any of them. What I objected to was your comparing my thread here, providing links to connect Donald and Putin, with McCarthy’s unproven, and sometimes demonstrably false, claims about a bunch of innocent people. ---
**Author:** ![california\_jobcase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9d8465/32.png) [@california\_jobcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/california_jobcase)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2016, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-donald-trump-a-putin-patsy/760875/47 "2016-07-26T04:02:25Z")
Is it coincidence that Trump has married not one, but two communist-bloc born women? You know when Trump said he’d probably quit and disappear if he doesn’t win? Maybe he meant he’d be _disappeared_. ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2016, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-donald-trump-a-putin-patsy/760875/48 "2016-07-26T04:03:38Z")
And hey - speaking of Donald Trump and his connection to Vladimir Putin and Russian influence, this is weird. The Washington Post reports that Russian news agency Tass spoke to a Kremlin spokesperson about the allegations that the hack was accomplished by Russian Intelligence: [https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/the-anxiety-for-democrats-are-more-leaks-to-come/2016/07/25/0d8798e8-5282-11e6-bbf5-957ad17b4385\_story.html](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/the-anxiety-for-democrats-are-more-leaks-to-come/2016/07/25/0d8798e8-5282-11e6-bbf5-957ad17b4385_story.html) > [@WaPo referring to a report from Tass](#): > > On Monday, fallout from the hack also reverberated at the Kremlin, where a spokesman declined to comment on the hack except to refer reporters to comments by Trump’s son, Don Jr., calling the allegations part of a pattern of “lie after lie.” > > “Mr. Trump Jr. has already strongly responded” to the Clinton campaign’s claims, the Russian spokesman said, according to the news agency Tass. It’s no surprise that the Kremlin would deny any connection to the hack - but what on earth do they mean by referring the matter back to Donald Trump JR? Not even Senior. The Kremlin guy referred the Tass reporter to Junior’s statement. Why would the Kremlin direct attention to Donald Trump’s son, when questioned about the hack? Weird, right? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2016, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-donald-trump-a-putin-patsy/760875/49 "2016-07-26T04:05:22Z")
> [@Merneith](#): > > Well, a touch perhaps, but not a hit. Joe McCarthy used Hiss’ conviction to launch his “little list” but McCarthy had nothing to do with Hiss and no one on McCarthy’s list (which was really the Lee List) was ever convicted of anything due to McCarthy’s show. > > As I said - McCarthy’s charges were never backed up, unlike the multiple links that have been supplied claiming that Donald is personally connected to Vladimir Putin and Russian money. First, McCarthy’s charges were backed up in many cases, he just didn’t get convictions. Donald Trump has also not been convicted of anything. Second, Trump would never get convicted because he’s committed no crime. He’s not spying for Russia, he has business relationships with them and thinks Putin is a swell guy. You know who else thought Putin was a swell guy and thought it was all Bushs’ fault that we didn’t have good relations with him? Hillary Clinton. The “Reset” moment will come back to haunt her if she continues down this path. Third, a question. Given the agreement with Iran, if a Presidential candidate has a business relationship with Iran, is that disqualifying? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2016, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-donald-trump-a-putin-patsy/760875/50 "2016-07-26T04:06:36Z")
But the McCarthyism isn’t in pointing out Trump’s business connections, or his kind words for Putin. That’s all public information. It’s in Clinton jumping immediately to saying the Russians are aiding Trump’s campaign. When Republicans used to say that, the cries of “McCarthyism!” were so loud they were accompanied by froth and tears. But hey, we know the rules for 2016. It’s okay to accuse your opponent of being supported by your enemies. We can use that. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2016, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-donald-trump-a-putin-patsy/760875/51 "2016-07-26T04:06:38Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Actually, there were quite a few actual Communists in the State Department. > [@adaher](#): > > Owen Lattimore for starters. About as pro-Soviet and Mao China as anyone could get. > [@adaher](#): > > I could have also mentioned Alger Hiss but I’m sure you were already aware of that one. > [@adaher](#): > > Plus a long list of people who were actually proven spies: > > [List of American spies - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_American_spies#Spied_for_USSR) Your specific claim, as noted above, was that “there were quite a few actual Communists in the State Department”. Now you’re giving us lists of spies. Do you have a cite to back up your initial claim “there were quite a few actual Communists in the State Department”? ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2016, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-donald-trump-a-putin-patsy/760875/52 "2016-07-26T04:10:56Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Plus a long list of people who were actually proven spies: > > [List of American spies - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_American_spies#Spied_for_USSR) Never tried or convicted. > [@](#): > > Jane Foster Zlatovski (1912–1979) allegedly engaged, with her husband, George Zlatovski, in covert activities on behalf of the Soviet Union while employed in sensitive U.S. Government wartime agencies during World War II. They were indicted in 1957. Their case was never tried and both Zlatovskis denied the accusations. Arrested in Russia, not in the USA. > [@](#): > > Tilton was recalled to the USSR in the summer of 1930. > > Tilton was arrested on November 27, 1937, during the height of the Great Terror. He did not immediately plead guilty to alleged crimes, however, only being sentenced on December 15, 1940, well after the fall of Secret Police head Nikolai Ezhov. Turned counterspy. Never tried or convicted. > [@](#): > > In 1947, Morros became a counterspy for the FBI. He reported on Jack Soble and members of the Soble spy ring, while also passing low-level secrets and misinformation back to Moscow. Morros’ codename in Soviet intelligence and the Venona files was “FROST.” No mention of spying or conviction. > [@](#): > > Herbert Fuchs was a former Communist who became a professor of law at the American University in Washington, D.C. in 1949. I only clicked on 7 random names and that’s what I got. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2016, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-donald-trump-a-putin-patsy/760875/53 "2016-07-26T04:16:52Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > I think it’s more that he sees in Trump a kindred spirit, a Putin for the USA. I really doubt that. Putin fought his way up through the government ranks to power. He must see Trump as an inexperienced amateur. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2016, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-donald-trump-a-putin-patsy/760875/54 "2016-07-26T04:30:44Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I really doubt that. Putin fought his way up through the government ranks to power. He must see Trump as an inexperienced amateur. I think this movie scene encapsulates Donald Trump and what he thinks of himself and how things with Putin would really play out. (It’s a scene from _Get Shorty_.) (NSFW language)[(I think of Trump as Harry, btw.)](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O31rBYqYkuQ) ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2016, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-donald-trump-a-putin-patsy/760875/55 "2016-07-26T04:32:24Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > First, McCarthy’s charges were backed up in many cases, he just didn’t get convictions. Donald Trump has also not been convicted of anything. As you acknowledge elsewhere - Trump’s ties to Putin are all public knowledge. He doesn’t need to be convicted. McCarthy, otoh, had nothing or he would have gotten convictions. That’s why your comparing this thread to McCarthyism is bullshit. McCarthy made false statements about innocent people. I’m posting evidence of Trump’s connections to Russia (what you call public knowledge) and asking if it’s related to the evidence of Russian efforts to disrupt the DNC (something that is now public evidence, according to security investigators). > [@adaher](#): > > Second, Trump would never get convicted because he’s committed no crime. He’s not spying for Russia, he has business relationships with them and thinks Putin is a swell guy. You know who else thought Putin was a swell guy and thought it was all Bushs’ fault that we didn’t have good relations with him? Hillary Clinton. The “Reset” moment will come back to haunt her if she continues down this path. I don’t think Trump is a spy. He’s too stupid and uncontrolled. > [@adaher](#): > > Third, a question. Given the agreement with Iran, if a Presidential candidate has a business relationship with Iran, is that disqualifying? Maybe. Is the presidential candidate the person who arranged the agreement? For example, Donald Trump says that he wants to tear up all our treaties and renegotiate them so that the US “wins”. If Donald Trump is elected, do you think he will want to tear up the New START treaty, (Strategic Arms Reduction Treaty - is a treaty between the United States and Russia, and should remain in effect until 2021.,) given his affection for Vladimir Putin? Just today, Trump announced that he would walk out on our NATO allies if they don’t pay us protection money. Do you suppose that Trump’s connections to Russian banking will allow him to do something similar with New START? Given that Donald Trump refuses to reveal his financials, do we even know the full degree to which he is beholden to Russian interests? Why is he hiding them? How will this affect his desire to be The Great Negotiator? I think those are all valid questions. That’s the sort of thing I started this thread to discuss. ---
**Author:** ![Nema98](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/d2c977/32.png) [@Nema98](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nema98)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2016, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-donald-trump-a-putin-patsy/760875/56 "2016-07-26T04:46:25Z")
> [@Count\_Blucher](#): > > I’ve long held that, even though I personally dislike the man, Putin is One Smart SonOfaBitch. One who has chopped up Russo Capitalists and Russian Mafia Shits regularly and often and has served them in their home towns as cheap sausage. > Trump is no different (and I’m too damn old to be learning Cyrillic). I see what you are saying, but I kindly disagree. Putin is not smart and he is certainly no “genius” despite what many believe, including the western media. He is no grand master chess player on the international stage. He is will be the one who is check mated, not us. Putin is playing with fire and will be burned-badly. How and where remains to be seen. We see the firest signs of this with his country’s Olympic doping scandal fisasco. His country nearly got banned, and has been banned in some fields of sports. Think about it, Russia is a sport juggernaut, and now hey are risking it all and throwing it all away with this doping scandal. No all of their athletes will be tested outside Russia any who is found to be tainted, will be banned. Was it all worth it? To have even honest, clean Russian athletes banned a d punished because of this massive state sponsored scheme? The moon does not stay behind the clouds forever, Putin should have realized in this day and age, things will be found out. AND YES VLADIMIR PUTIN KNEW FULL WELL ABOUT THE DOPING SCANDAL, SO NO ONE GIVE ANY BULL OTHERWISE!!! Again now we see this Russian hacking of the DNC, it has been uncovered. This fast developing and who knows how all this will end. But Putin is no smart son of biatch. Eventually he will overplay his hand and get screwed over. It could be in Syria, or invading an European neighbor, or some other way. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2016, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-donald-trump-a-putin-patsy/760875/57 "2016-07-26T04:48:50Z")
[Trump/Putin 2016](https://twitter.com/MELnc/status/757775984984596480) ---
**Author:** ![Nema98](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/d2c977/32.png) [@Nema98](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nema98)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2016, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-donald-trump-a-putin-patsy/760875/58 "2016-07-26T04:54:34Z")
> [@Count\_Blucher](#): > > Absolutely! > > Watergate 1 - The GOP breaks into the DNC to steal files to gin advantage. > > Watergate 2 - “Someone” bribes / coerces Putin to do the same, so there are clean hands. > > its very much “Iran-Contra” but with a 2016 Spin. > > * * * > > Suggested because SO many people refuse to believe Putin might be playing Chess on his own. > A Hint to my countrymen who can’t spell: “Putin” isn’t spelled Y-E-L-T-S-I-N. He is playing chess like a retard I have to say. Invades Crimea, a worthless part of Ukraine-for little worth to his country, gets kicked out of the G7, sanctions are placed on his country and his economy continues going down the toilet, as a result. He is now more invested in Syria than the west, trying to prop up that barbarian in Damascus, what else? His country is nearly banned from the Olympics. He is a retarded chess player. ---
**Author:** ![Nema98](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/d2c977/32.png) [@Nema98](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nema98)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2016, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-donald-trump-a-putin-patsy/760875/59 "2016-07-26T04:59:44Z")
Now I wonder if it emerges that Donald Trump HIMSELF ordered or knew indirectly of a hack against the DNC, would that constitute a crime? For a U.S presidential candidate to have collaborated with a hostile foreign government to hack a fellow Americans candidate, that sounds like unprecedented, serious stuff right there. Forget Iran Contra, or the Clinton email server scandal, this would surpass Watergate. Donald Trump would go down as the modern day Benedict Arnold, he could look at serious prison time. How the irony, the guy who called for Hillary Clinton to be punished for email scandal, is ultimately undone with his own much worse fiasco. ---
**Author:** ![Nema98](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/d2c977/32.png) [@Nema98](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nema98)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2016, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-donald-trump-a-putin-patsy/760875/60 "2016-07-26T05:06:02Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > I hope so. Putin is an evil authoritarian, but to antagonize, encircle, and destabilize Russia is not a good idea. Moreover, if Trump is as trigger-happy as many think, I’d rather him shake hands with Putin than play chicken with him. > > Clinton has compared Putin to Hitler. Victoria “Phone Coup” Nuland will no doubt be a person with power in her administration, and that’s a scary thing for humanity. Yes Victoria Nuland having a role in a Clinton administration is scary, not some presidential candidate who says NATO is dead and he would not aid allies in times of distress. Russia was the scary one in Ukraine, not us. In fact impunity and lawlessness are rampant in east Ukraine, the pro Russian part, rather the western part. Look at former Soviet republics like Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania-successful, vibrant and democratic. Compare it with those ruled by Putin stooges, all corrupt and authoritarian. What is scary are people with the mindsets of you and Donald Trump. Trump and Putin are dangerous for humanity, that’s the truth. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-donald-trump-a-putin-patsy/760875.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-donald-trump-a-putin-patsy/760875.md?page=4)