# Is Donald Trump a Putin patsy? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [July 25, 2016, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-donald-trump-a-putin-patsy/760875 "2016-07-25T19:00:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![bobruisk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f08c70/32.png) [@bobruisk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobruisk)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2016, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-donald-trump-a-putin-patsy/760875/101 "2016-07-26T18:13:00Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > You keep repeating the same party line despite it being refuted by the director of the FBI in his own words. I don’t know who you expect to convince with factually incorrect arguments but I assure you, it’s not going to work here. 😕😕 According to the director’s of FBI own words: [Secretary Clinton was “extremely careless in her handling of very sensitive, highly classified information.”](https://www.fbi.gov/news/pressrel/press-releases/statement-by-fbi-director-james-b-comey-on-the-investigation-of-secretary-hillary-clinton2019s-use-of-a-personal-e-mail-system) > [@QuickSilver](#): > > Please do. Which idiotic policies and in what way are they idiotic. Please provide evidence, not personal conjecture. The idiotic policy of rewarding a country that invaded and dismembered our ally by initiating a “reset” policy with said country. It was idiotic because it rewarded the said country for invading and dismembering our ally. > [@QuickSilver](#): > > Once more with feeling… What alternatives do you propose should have been exercised instead? I already proposed the alternative numerous times. ---
**Author:** ![bobruisk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f08c70/32.png) [@bobruisk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobruisk)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2016, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-donald-trump-a-putin-patsy/760875/102 "2016-07-26T18:14:57Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Just to make it clear: I’m not asking what you _won’t_ do, what policies you _wouldn’t_ adopt, or what you think of Hillary Clinton. I’m asking you what specific policy above and beyond _not_ doing something you would pursue. Are you seriously arguing that not rewarding an aggressor by initialing a reset policy with it is not a valid policy? ---
**Author:** ![bobruisk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f08c70/32.png) [@bobruisk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobruisk)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2016, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-donald-trump-a-putin-patsy/760875/103 "2016-07-26T18:21:05Z")
Out of curiosity, when Russia invaded and dismembered our ally Ukraine, why didn’t we initiate a reset policy with Russia? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2016, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-donald-trump-a-putin-patsy/760875/104 "2016-07-26T18:22:46Z")
Since when is a “reset policy” a reward? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2016, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-donald-trump-a-putin-patsy/760875/105 "2016-07-26T18:29:06Z")
> [@bobruisk](#): > > Are you seriously arguing that not rewarding an aggressor by initialing a reset policy with it is not a valid policy? I’m asking you what you would do, not what you _wouldn’t_ do. Are you saying that above and beyond “not having a reset policy”, you’d do _nothing_ in regards to Russia invading and dismembering our allies? ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2016, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-donald-trump-a-putin-patsy/760875/106 "2016-07-26T18:29:41Z")
> [@bobruisk](#): > > 😕😕 According to the director’s of FBI own words: [Secretary Clinton was “extremely careless in her handling of very sensitive, highly classified information.”](https://www.fbi.gov/news/pressrel/press-releases/statement-by-fbi-director-james-b-comey-on-the-investigation-of-secretary-hillary-clinton2019s-use-of-a-personal-e-mail-system) From the link. > [@](#): > > Separately, it is important to say something about the marking of classified information.\*\* Only a very small number of the e-mails containing classified information bore markings indicating the presence of classified information.\*\* But even if information is not marked “classified” in an e-mail, participants who know or should know that the subject matter is classified are still obligated to protect it. Three, if I remember. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2016, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-donald-trump-a-putin-patsy/760875/107 "2016-07-26T18:35:48Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > All his clothing/other crap line is made overseas. > And he’s been totally unable to bring _those_ jobs back to the States. unwilling, not unable. ---
**Author:** ![bobruisk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f08c70/32.png) [@bobruisk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobruisk)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2016, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-donald-trump-a-putin-patsy/760875/108 "2016-07-26T18:37:49Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > From the link. > > Three, if I remember. I’m sorry, you initially said: > [@QuickSilver](#): > > You keep repeating the same party line despite it being refuted by the director of the FBI in his own words. I don’t know who you expect to convince with factually incorrect arguments but I assure you, it’s not going to work here. I quoted you the Director of the FBI in his own words. Do you deny that the quote provided is accurate? Are you saying the FBI site where the director of the FBI is quoted as saying that Hillary Clinton was “extremely careless in her handling of very sensitive, highly classified information” doesn’t reflect his words accurately? ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2016, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-donald-trump-a-putin-patsy/760875/109 "2016-07-26T18:39:07Z")
> [@bobruisk](#): > > Would you call it “gaffe”, then? Sure. > [@bobruisk](#): > > Yes, I do. Whereas we know that Mrs. Clinton is unqualified to be POTUS , we’re yet to see if we can say the same about Mr. Trump. :rolleyes: You aren’t making a very good case for what, to you, is an _a priori_ assumption, I can tell you that. > [@bobruisk](#): > > Well, we have 2 candidates running for the office here, don’t you think we should compare them with each other? Not in this thread, I don’t; no. This thread is specifically about the relationship between Donald Trump and Vladimir Putin. I don’t see Hillary Clinton’s name in there at all. ---
**Author:** ![bobruisk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f08c70/32.png) [@bobruisk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobruisk)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2016, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-donald-trump-a-putin-patsy/760875/110 "2016-07-26T18:39:25Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Since when is a “reset policy” a reward? Good point. It very well may be that initiating reset policy was meant as a punishment for Russia for invading and dismembering our ally. Why didn’t we similarly punish Russia when it invaded and dismembered our ally Ukraine? ---
**Author:** ![bobruisk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f08c70/32.png) [@bobruisk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobruisk)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2016, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-donald-trump-a-putin-patsy/760875/111 "2016-07-26T18:41:35Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > I don’t see Hillary Clinton’s name in there at all. You must’ve skipped the 2nd page of this thread, where I’ve pointed out that out of the two current presidential candidates, it’s surely Mrs. Clinton (based on her extensive dealings with Mr. Putin), it is surely Mrs. Clinton who’s a patsy here. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2016, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-donald-trump-a-putin-patsy/760875/112 "2016-07-26T18:42:31Z")
> [@bobruisk](#): > > Good point. It very well may be that initiating reset policy was meant as a punishment for Russia for invading and dismembering our ally. > Why didn’t we similarly punish Russia when it invaded and dismembered our ally Ukraine? Or maybe a “reset” is just a reset, and neither punishment nor reward. Not everything in foreign policy works on the punishment/reward axis. > [@bobruisk](#): > > I quoted you the Director of the FBI in his own words. > Do you deny that the quote provided is accurate? > Are you saying the FBI site where the director of the FBI is quoted as saying that Hillary Clinton was “extremely careless in her handling of very sensitive, highly classified information” doesn’t reflect his words accurately? You said the FBI said that Hillary lied, and the FBI did not say that Hillary lied. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2016, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-donald-trump-a-putin-patsy/760875/113 "2016-07-26T18:43:44Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > unwilling, not unable. [ABC April 28, 2011](http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/donald-trump-admits-gear-made-china-labels/story?id=13472355) > [@](#): > > Asked if he ever looked at having his Trump products manufactured in the U.S., Trump said, “Always do. There are very few companies that do it because they can’t compete with the manipulation.” So if it’s not possible with his own brand, how does he expect to bring back millions of jobs? ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2016, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-donald-trump-a-putin-patsy/760875/114 "2016-07-26T18:50:35Z")
Ryan needs to do more than["vigorously defend NATO".](http://www.usnews.com/news/politics/articles/2016-07-26/in-break-from-trump-paul-ryan-defends-nato-trade-deals) He needs to clearly state that Trump is a danger to world security, and is actively aiding and abetting Russia’s foreign policy. Ryan needs to cut Trump loose - we’ve only just begun to see the damage he can cause. McConnell needs to do more than [simply bleat that](http://www.politico.com/story/2016/07/trump-nato-mitch-mcconnell-225955)"Trump is wrong about NATO, especially now that Trump has come back and effectively [shit all over McConnell.](http://www.newsmax.com/Politics/donald-trump-mcconnell-wrong/2016/07/24/id/740188/) The thing is, Candidate Trump is ALREADY destabilizing the alliances of the United States. NATO depends on absolute assurances that the allied countries will support each other - not on a “maybe we will, if they pay us enough”. In world politics, uncertainty is a BAD, BAD thing. Trump is introducing uncertainty. It is very, very VERY dangerous. It’s time for the grown up Republicans to fish or cut bait. Stop supporting this dangerous man-child, just because a minority group of your muslim-hating, immigrant-bashing party members voted for him. Stop putting your party before your country. Your party has been effectively split and destroyed by Mr. Trump. Supporting him now will not bring it back together again. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2016, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-donald-trump-a-putin-patsy/760875/115 "2016-07-26T18:54:07Z")
Jesus, but [Ryan is a putz](http://www.usnews.com/news/politics/articles/2016-07-26/in-break-from-trump-paul-ryan-defends-nato-trade-deals) with no sense of what is good for the country; > [@](#): > > But Ryan has also argued that Trump is a better choice than Democrat Hillary Clinton because the House Republican agenda has a better chance of passing with him as president. So forget about NATO, trash our trade deals… but that’s OK, because we can get some wonderful anti-gay legislation passed and make sure there are no funny people in our bathrooms. Jesus wept. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2016, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-donald-trump-a-putin-patsy/760875/116 "2016-07-26T18:56:01Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > [ABC April 28, 2011](http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/donald-trump-admits-gear-made-china-labels/story?id=13472355) > > So if it’s not possible with his own brand, how does he expect to bring back millions of jobs? By putting a huuuuuuuuuge surcharge on their goods to force them to come back. That’s what he said he would do with Apple. Of course, he doesn’t own Apple, and in fact doesn’t like their politics. ---
**Author:** ![bobruisk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f08c70/32.png) [@bobruisk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobruisk)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2016, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-donald-trump-a-putin-patsy/760875/117 "2016-07-26T19:02:37Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > You said the FBI said that Hillary lied, and the FBI did not say that Hillary lied. 😕 Are these not the quotes from Mrs Clinton’s statements? “I never sent or received any classified material." “Let me repeat what I have repeated for many months now, I never received nor sent any material that was marked classified." Did the FBI investigation not conclude that [Clinton both sent and received emails that were classified at the “Top Secret/Special Access Program level” and were classified at the time.](https://www.fbi.gov/news/pressrel/press-releases/statement-by-fbi-director-james-b-comey-on-the-investigation-of-secretary-hillary-clinton2019s-use-of-a-personal-e-mail-system) ? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2016, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-donald-trump-a-putin-patsy/760875/118 "2016-07-26T19:04:52Z")
We should attack and dismember Hillary! ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2016, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-donald-trump-a-putin-patsy/760875/119 "2016-07-26T19:10:39Z")
> [@bobruisk](#): > > You must’ve skipped the 2nd page of this thread, where I’ve pointed out that out of the two current presidential candidates, it’s surely Mrs. Clinton (based on her extensive dealings with Mr. Putin), it is surely Mrs. Clinton who’s a patsy here. Yes, you are indeed the first one who brought Clinton into this thread. Congratulations on your misdirection. In the meantime, Trump is still destabilizing NATO, with potentially disastrous results. You may enjoy the scapegoating of allies and isolationist rhetoric, but most don’t. Aiding and abetting Russia’s interests may be terrific for you, but not for most. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2016, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-donald-trump-a-putin-patsy/760875/120 "2016-07-26T19:12:56Z")
> [@bobruisk](#): > > 😕 > Are these not the quotes from Mrs Clinton’s statements? > > “I never sent or received any classified material." > “Let me repeat what I have repeated for many months now, I never received nor sent any material that was marked classified." > > Did the FBI investigation not conclude that [Clinton both sent and received emails that were classified at the “Top Secret/Special Access Program level” and were classified at the time.](https://www.fbi.gov/news/pressrel/press-releases/statement-by-fbi-director-james-b-comey-on-the-investigation-of-secretary-hillary-clinton2019s-use-of-a-personal-e-mail-system) > ? Again, you said the FBI said that Hillary _lied_. Not that the FBI contradicted Hillary, or that they said something that was different than what Hillary said. A lie implies intent, and Comey very specifically avoided saying that she lied. These things can be complicated, and it’s okay to sometimes get them wrong. I’m glad to have the opportunity to help others add to their understanding. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-donald-trump-a-putin-patsy/760875.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-donald-trump-a-putin-patsy/760875.md?page=7)