# Is Donald Trump a Putin patsy? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [July 25, 2016, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-donald-trump-a-putin-patsy/760875 "2016-07-25T19:00:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2016, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-donald-trump-a-putin-patsy/760875/121 "2016-07-26T19:17:56Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > These things can be complicated, and it’s okay to sometimes get them wrong. I’m glad to have the opportunity to help others add to their understanding. **iiandyiiii** , if I could ask you a personal favor… Could you please stop engaging posters who are so obviously trying to deflect conversation away from the original post? You are helping them. Thank you so much in advance. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2016, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-donald-trump-a-putin-patsy/760875/122 "2016-07-26T19:19:33Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > **iiandyiiii** , if I could ask you a personal favor… > > Could you please stop engaging posters who are so obviously trying to deflect conversation away from the original post? You are helping them. Thank you so much in advance. Okay, sorry. ---
**Author:** ![bobruisk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f08c70/32.png) [@bobruisk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobruisk)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2016, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-donald-trump-a-putin-patsy/760875/123 "2016-07-26T19:21:39Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Again, you said the FBI said that Hillary _lied_. Where did I say that? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![bobruisk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f08c70/32.png) [@bobruisk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobruisk)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2016, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-donald-trump-a-putin-patsy/760875/124 "2016-07-26T19:22:42Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > In the meantime, Trump is still destabilizing NATO Mr. Trump is strengthening NATO, not destabilizing it. 😕😕 ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2016, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-donald-trump-a-putin-patsy/760875/125 "2016-07-26T19:23:54Z")
> [@bobruisk](#): > > Where did I say that? 😕 [Six posts ago.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=19507919&postcount=117) > [@bobruisk](#): > > Mr. Trump is strengthening NATO, not destabilizing it. 😕😕 The man says he wants to pull out of NATO and get them to pay us to defend them from a Russian attack. How is that “strengthening” NATO? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2016, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-donald-trump-a-putin-patsy/760875/126 "2016-07-26T19:28:06Z")
> [@bobruisk](#): > > 😕 > Are these not the quotes from Mrs Clinton’s statements? > > “I never sent or received any classified material." > “Let me repeat what I have repeated for many months now, I never received nor sent any material that was marked classified." > > Did the FBI investigation not conclude that [Clinton both sent and received emails that were classified at the “Top Secret/Special Access Program level” and were classified at the time.](https://www.fbi.gov/news/pressrel/press-releases/statement-by-fbi-director-james-b-comey-on-the-investigation-of-secretary-hillary-clinton2019s-use-of-a-personal-e-mail-system) > ? I do remember that when democrats asked Comey to clarify in the hearing he had to acknowledge that yes, part of the reason why he did not even recommend to convict was that the secret emails could be missed as the marks in the few ones that were marked as such that came to Hillary were not as clearly marked as they should had been. I concluded that Comey should not had been so harsh with Clinton in his early statements and that harshness was mostly the “would had \*\*love \*\*to convict Hillary” faction in the FBI that made the Republicans and their media mislead many about what was expected from this investigation. So instead we got the media not explaining the difference between rules and laws and continuing to mislead a lot of the people. It is easier to support the prejudgement of many than explaining it to them properly. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2016, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-donald-trump-a-putin-patsy/760875/127 "2016-07-26T19:32:00Z")
> [@bobruisk](#): > > Mr. Trump is strengthening NATO, not destabilizing it. 😕😕 By attacking and dismembering it! ---
**Author:** ![bobruisk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f08c70/32.png) [@bobruisk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobruisk)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2016, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-donald-trump-a-putin-patsy/760875/128 "2016-07-26T19:46:22Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > [Six posts ago.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=19507919&postcount=117) There’s nothing of the sort in the quote that you provided. 😕 > [@Smapti](#): > > The man says he wants to pull out of NATO and get them to pay us to defend them from a Russian attack. > > How is that “strengthening” NATO? I would think a simple idea like that would be self-explanatory 😕 but apparently not. Don’t worry, I’ll make it simple just for you. Currently, the vast majority of NATO members do not meet their obligation in respect to 2% of GDP spending on the defense. Here’s a [simple chart](https://admin.govexec.com/media/gbc/docs/pdfs_edit/natopercgdp.png) that illustrates the problem. Mrs. Clinton, during her times as State Secretary, completely failed (shocking, quite shocking) to tackle this problem. By threatening to leave NATO Mr. Trump, quite obviously, wants to push the countries in question to meet their obligation on defense spending, thereby strengthening the alliance. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2016, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-donald-trump-a-putin-patsy/760875/129 "2016-07-26T19:53:36Z")
So you’re saying that allowing Russia to invade and dismember our allies will “strengthen” NATO. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2016, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-donald-trump-a-putin-patsy/760875/130 "2016-07-26T19:53:57Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > By attacking and dismembering it! Heh. Apparently the Orwellian strategy of simply asserting a lie is one of which our little online operative is quite fond. Black is white! But getting back to Trump’s urge to make Putin happy: I suspect that Trump has a bit of a crush on ol’ Vlad. Trump seems to actually crave Putin’s approval and benediction. If Trump does gain the Presidency, it won’t be _just_ a question of Putin rewarding Trump’s helpful-to-Russia actions with cash (though Trump is always glad to acquire more cash)–it’s that Trump actually wants Putin to clasp him in a manly embrace and smile upon him. ---
**Author:** ![bobruisk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f08c70/32.png) [@bobruisk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobruisk)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2016, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-donald-trump-a-putin-patsy/760875/131 "2016-07-26T19:55:27Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > So you’re saying that allowing Russia to invade and dismember our allies will “strengthen” NATO. No, I’m saying that at all. Please re-read my explanation again. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2016, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-donald-trump-a-putin-patsy/760875/132 "2016-07-26T19:57:09Z")
> [@bobruisk](#): > > No, I’m saying that at all. Please re-read my explanation again. Your explanation was that the US should abandon the North Atlantic Treaty, thereby leaving our allies to be attacked and dismembered by Russia, in the hopes that that threat will scare them into paying us protection money. > [@](#): > > Currently, the vast majority of NATO members do not meet their obligation in respect to 2% of GDP spending on the defense. > Here’s a simple chart that illustrates the problem. > > Mrs. Clinton, during her times as State Secretary, completely failed (shocking, quite shocking) to tackle this problem. > By threatening to leave NATO Mr. Trump, quite obviously, wants to push the countries in question to meet their obligation on defense spending, thereby strengthening the alliance. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2016, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-donald-trump-a-putin-patsy/760875/133 "2016-07-26T19:57:44Z")
Frankly, don’t give a lot of thought to Estonia or Latvia, But Georgia’s always…no, can’t do it. It would be _wrong_! ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2016, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-donald-trump-a-putin-patsy/760875/134 "2016-07-26T19:58:53Z")
> [@bobruisk](#): > > Currently, the vast majority of NATO members do not meet their obligation in respect to 2% of GDP spending on the defense. > Here’s a [simple chart](https://admin.govexec.com/media/gbc/docs/pdfs_edit/natopercgdp.png) that illustrates the problem. Do you have a cite that the 2% GDP is an obligation? :dubious: > [@bobruisk](#): > > Mrs. Clinton, during her times as State Secretary, completely failed (shocking, quite shocking) to tackle this problem. Mrs. Clinton never served as State Secretary. Are you quite sure you know what you’re talking about? > [@bobruisk](#): > > By threatening to leave NATO Mr. Trump, quite obviously, wants to push the countries in question to meet their obligation on defense spending, thereby strengthening the alliance. Ah, there’s that word again: “obligation”. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2016, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-donald-trump-a-putin-patsy/760875/135 "2016-07-26T20:00:39Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > …it’s that Trump actually wants Putin to clasp him in a manly embrace… This “manly embrace” thing is a bit fuzzy… ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2016, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-donald-trump-a-putin-patsy/760875/136 "2016-07-26T20:04:21Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Again, you said the FBI said that Hillary _lied_. > [@bobruisk](#): > > Where did I say that? 😕 [Post #93](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=19507732&postcount=93): > [@bobruisk](#): > > No, not really. I think when discussing Mrs. Clinton qualifications (or, rather, the obvious lack thereof) to be POTUS, **it is important not only to rely on FBI’s investigation, which showed to us that Mrs. Clinton recklessly mishandled highly classified information, and then lied about it to investigators** , but also to remember her initiation of disastrous reset policy with Russia. (bolding mine) You clearly wrote that the FBI’s investigation showed us that Mrs. Clinton “lied about it” to investigators. The FBI said no such thing. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2016, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-donald-trump-a-putin-patsy/760875/137 "2016-07-26T20:04:48Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Frankly, don’t give a lot of thought to Estonia or Latvia, But Georgia’s always…no, can’t do it. It would be _wrong_! When the hell did _that_ ever stop you before? 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2016, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-donald-trump-a-putin-patsy/760875/138 "2016-07-26T20:09:39Z")
> [@bobruisk](#): > > Mr. Trump is strengthening NATO, not destabilizing it. 😕😕 [Trump says NATO is obsolete.](http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2016/03/27/trump_europe_is_not_safe_lots_of_the_free_world_has_become_weak.html) > [@](#): > > TRUMP: I think NATO is obsolete. NATO was done at a time you had the Soviet Union, which was obviously larger – much larger than Russia is today. And excuse me if I listen to an Admiral, rather than an anonymous dude on the internet: > [@](#): > > Retired Navy Adm. James Stavridis, whose last post was a four-year stint as supreme allied commander at NATO, overseeing the alliance’s military operations across the globe, tweeted Thursday: “Trump on NATO: deeply dangerous will dismay our closest Allies but great cheer in Kremlin: I can hear Vladimir Putin chortling from here.” Trump = “Deeply Dangerous”. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2016, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-donald-trump-a-putin-patsy/760875/139 "2016-07-26T20:16:47Z")
Let me ask a tangential question: Why has the Democratic Party become so anti-Russia of late - even before the 2014 Crimea crisis? ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2016, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-donald-trump-a-putin-patsy/760875/140 "2016-07-26T20:26:49Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > This “manly embrace” thing is a bit fuzzy… I wasn’t actually suggesting any homoerotic tendencies in Trump; it’s just that there’s something in the way he talks about Putin that differs from his usual way of talking about people. The remarks he makes about others tend to be very canned, repetitive, and predictable: people who cooperate with him are Classy and Great Guys; people who obstruct his will are Sad or Corrupt or the Worst. Sociopathic narcissists crave the approval of everyone–but in a very generic way. “The Blacks love me” and “I love Hispanics!” and that sort of thing. Individuals don’t really impress him–either they are cooperative (and get generic praise) or they obstruct his will (and get generic insults). What you don’t see very often is a SN coming up with uncanned, specific praise for particular individuals–and that’s what we see with Trump’s remarks about Putin. It’s not merely He’s Very Classy or He’s a Great Guy. Trump seems to find Putin worthy of more than just the usual canned praise. And I suspect that like other sociopathic narcissists, he’s actually _impressed_ by someone who’s very successful at doing what the SN thinks is important–in this case, Ruling Absolutely (and going so far as to murder people who inconvenience him). I would guess that when Trump speaks admiringly of Putin and Kim Jong Un, he is revealing his wistful daydreams about holding just such absolute power, himself. People who simply eliminate their enemies are cool!! (in Trump’s view). And he’s love to have Putin at his shoulder, nodding and approving as Trump chooses who to put on his Enemies List. Putin’s esteem and support would actually mean something to Trump. I think Trump may currently be enjoying thoughts of hosting Putin at the White House and impressing him with rounds of golf at his properties. (And perhaps a bare-chested horseback ride or two!) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-donald-trump-a-putin-patsy/760875.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-donald-trump-a-putin-patsy/760875.md?page=8)