# Is Donald Trump really THAT bad? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 6, 2017, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-donald-trump-really-that-bad/779135 "2017-02-06T00:58:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2017, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-donald-trump-really-that-bad/779135/121 "2017-02-19T21:17:37Z")
Yes, Donald trump really is THAT bad. Asked and answered, please close this thread. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2017, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-donald-trump-really-that-bad/779135/122 "2017-02-19T22:56:22Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > Yes, Donald trump really is THAT bad. Asked and answered, please close this thread. Not at all. He is much worse. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2017, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-donald-trump-really-that-bad/779135/123 "2017-02-20T00:18:31Z")
> [@Bayard](#): > > It’s only a matter of time until we get _The Protocols of the Elders of Islam_. It will, of course, be written in tweets. Jack Chick beat him to that, with his comic tracts. ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2017, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-donald-trump-really-that-bad/779135/124 "2017-02-20T00:30:51Z")
> [@Bayard](#): > > And, Trump invents another incident. At a rally on Saturday, Trump said: > There was, of course, no incident of note in Sweden the previous night. It’s unclear what might have sparked Trump’s imagination this time. There was some speculation that Fox had run a story mentioning Sweden the night before, and somehow Trump thought there was an incident of some kind. Because, really, why talk about Sweden unless there was a terror attack there? > > It’s only a matter of time until we get _The Protocols of the Elders of Islam_. It will, of course, be written in tweets. > > [Twitter Mocks Trump For Citing Non-Existent Incident ‘Last Night In Sweden’ - TPM – Talking Points Memo](http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/twitter-trump-last-night-in-sweden) Ah! Trump and his spokespeople have clarified Trump’s remarks, and they make perfect sense! He was not referring to a specific incident, but rather to a program that appeared on Fox News on Friday. He didn’t say which program, but he presumably meant Fucker Carlson’s show, on which some filmmaker appeared to talk about rising crime rates in Sweden, which, naturally, are because of immigrants. > **[Twitter Mocks Trump For Citing Non-Existent Incident ‘Last Night In Sweden’](https://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/twitter-trump-last-night-in-sweden)** > > After President Donald Trump cited a non-existent incident "last night in Sweden" during a rally on Saturday night, Twitter was quick to skewer him for the gaffe while speculating pointedly about what… ---
**Author:** ![Battle\_Pope](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@Battle\_Pope](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Battle_Pope)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2017, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-donald-trump-really-that-bad/779135/125 "2017-02-20T01:02:51Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > No, King Ralph was a good hearted sort, who meant well. He knew he was in over his head and he tried to learn, tried to fix it. He also stepped down voluntarily and peacefully, in favor of the more qualified person. > > Ralph was the Anti-Trump. [Admiral ‘Tug’ Benson](http://www.imdb.com/character/ch0008946/quotes)would be a better President by far. ---
**Author:** ![russian\_heel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f05b48/32.png) [@russian\_heel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/russian_heel)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2017, 7:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-donald-trump-really-that-bad/779135/126 "2017-02-20T07:15:42Z")
This similarities between Reagan and Trump are uncanny. Reagan was as far as I know the first non-military war hero celebrity to be elected President, married to a beautiful woman also a celebrity. Reagan ran on a platform of “making America great again” during the humiliating Iran hostage crisis during a Democrat regime. Trump won with the same message in light of a Democratic President struggling with ISIS. Both men were the oldest men to take office at the time of their inauguration. I remember when Reagan took office, one of my liberal friends mocked Reagans speech where he showed a dollar on TV, and do remember a lot of the left mocking Reagan for basically being a clueless clown . . . Similar to the criticism of Trump. With more time I could think of more (for instance, a lot of Reagan opponents questioned the integrity of his hair) but I think you get it. There was no social media and many many less new channels in the 80s so it may seem Trump is the most attacked President of all time, but relatively speaking, wasn’t Reagan treated the same way? Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2017, 8:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-donald-trump-really-that-bad/779135/127 "2017-02-20T08:12:12Z")
Tucker Carlson? He isn’t _even_ Sean Hannity, he doesn’t measure up to Limbaugh. Anne Coulter doesn’t take his calls. Who the fuck writes him checks? ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2017, 11:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-donald-trump-really-that-bad/779135/128 "2017-02-20T11:34:39Z")
> [@russian\_heel](#): > > There was no social media and many many less new channels in the 80s so it may seem Trump is the most attacked President of all time, but relatively speaking, wasn’t Reagan treated the same way? Reagan was clueless about a great many things and he was mocked and despised by the Left. However, Reagan had held the office of Governor of California without causing it to fall into the sea, so he had demonstrated a capability to govern. He was wildly popular, (winning the presidency by an actual majority of the popular vote,) and even when his proposals were dumb, (Star Wars, 600 ship Navy), they were not so stupid as nearly everything that Trump has proposed. And while Reagan was mocked by the Left, Trump is mocked by the majority of people of the country who refused to vote for him and by a number of people who held their noses and did vote for him as the lesser of two evils. Reagan was hardly treated “the same way.” ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2017, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-donald-trump-really-that-bad/779135/129 "2017-02-20T13:19:29Z")
Reagan, as far as I know, didn’t _personally_ campaign to have his own likeness added to Mount Rushmore. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2017, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-donald-trump-really-that-bad/779135/130 "2017-02-20T18:00:11Z")
This is fascinating. [“Trump supporters see a successful president — and are frustrated with critics who don’t”](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-supporters-see-a-successful-president--and-are-frustrated-with-critics-who-dont/2017/02/19/496cb4b4-f6ca-11e6-9845-576c69081518_story.html?hpid=hp_hp-top-table-main_trumpsupporters-0711pm%3Ahomepage%2Fstory) > [@](#): > > MELBOURNE, Fla. …Those who journeyed to Trump’s Saturday evening event on Florida’s Space Coast said that since the election, they have unfriended some of their liberal relatives or friends on Facebook. They don’t understand why major media outlets don’t see the same successful administration they have been cheering on. And they’re increasingly frustrated that Democrats — and some Republicans — are too slow to approve some of the president’s nominees and too quick to protest his every utterance. … And here’s the problem (from the same article): > [@](#): > > …Melani, for example, gets most of her news from talk radio — “I listen to Herman Cain on my way into work, I have Sean [Hannity] on my way home,” she said — and Fox News. > > She and her husband were well-versed on hold-ups with the president’s Cabinet nominees and legal arguments for the now-frozen travel ban. But they didn’t know much about the resignation of Trump’s national security adviser Michael Flynn on Monday amid accusations that he improperly discussed U.S. sanctions with the Russian ambassador — and then withheld that information from Vice President Pence and other top officials. > > “See, don’t question me on that because I haven’t really been watching and listening too much on it,” Melani said. “I think he kind of did it just to step away, a trust kind of a thing. And now, of course, they want to pull a big investigation and all of this stuff. And to be honest with you, I really think it’s only because of the way the haters are out there. That’s what I really think it is.”… Also from that article: > [@](#): > > …Several people said they would have liked to see more coverage of a measure that Trump signed Thursday that rolled back a last-minute Obama regulation that would have restricted coal mines from dumping debris in nearby streams. At the signing, Trump was joined by coal miners in hard hats. > > “If he hadn’t gotten into office, 70,000 miners would have been put out of work,” Patricia Nana, a 42-year-old naturalized citizen from Cameroon. “I saw the ceremony where he signed that bill, giving them their jobs back, and he had miners with their hard hats and everything — you could see how happy they were.” > > The regulation actually would have cost relatively few mining jobs and would have created nearly as many new jobs on the regulatory side, according to a government report — an example of the frequent distance between Trump’s rhetoric, which many of his supporters wholeheartedly believe, and verifiable facts… They have insulated themselves from the FACTS. They believe the stuff Trump is spewing. Even the few Trump supporters here are smarter than that. They still support Trump in spite of his gaffes and blunders because he stands for things they want, like a conservative Supreme Court justice or fewer gummint regs or lower taxes. But they KNOW the man is an incompetent dufus. These other, clueless deplorables just eat up the lies that flow like mother’s milk from the Trump titty. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2017, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-donald-trump-really-that-bad/779135/131 "2017-02-20T19:34:32Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > Reagan was clueless about a great many things and he was mocked and despised by the Left. However, Reagan had held the office of Governor of California without causing it to fall into the sea, so he had demonstrated a capability to govern. He was wildly popular, (winning the presidency by an actual majority of the popular vote,) and even when his proposals were dumb, (Star Wars, 600 ship Navy), they were not so stupid as nearly everything that Trump has proposed. > And while Reagan was mocked by the Left, Trump is mocked by the majority of people of the country who refused to vote for him and by a number of people who held their noses and did vote for him as the lesser of two evils. > > Reagan was hardly treated “the same way.” And Reagan tried to do the job, didn’t have massive conflicts of interest, was definitely NOT in bed with the Russians, and was willing to accept responsibility for screw ups once in a while. He wasn’t a mealy mouthed whiney spoiled brat. And, he wasn’t willfully stupid. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2017, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-donald-trump-really-that-bad/779135/132 "2017-02-20T20:20:25Z")
[University of Pennsylvania student newspaper refutes Trump’s claim that he graduated first in his class from Wharton.](http://www.phillyvoice.com/penn-student-newspaper-debunks-trumps-claims-graduating-top-his-class/) ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2017, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-donald-trump-really-that-bad/779135/133 "2017-02-20T21:33:41Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > [University of Pennsylvania student newspaper refutes Trump’s claim that he graduated first in his class from Wharton.](http://www.phillyvoice.com/penn-student-newspaper-debunks-trumps-claims-graduating-top-his-class/) “How do you know when Donald Trump is lying?” Y’all know the answer to that one. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2017, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-donald-trump-really-that-bad/779135/134 "2017-02-20T21:53:29Z")
He’s breathing. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2017, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-donald-trump-really-that-bad/779135/135 "2017-02-20T22:15:55Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > He’s breathing. _checks for breathing_ ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2017, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-donald-trump-really-that-bad/779135/136 "2017-02-20T23:23:55Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > [University of Pennsylvania student newspaper refutes Trump’s claim that he graduated first in his class from Wharton.](http://www.phillyvoice.com/penn-student-newspaper-debunks-trumps-claims-graduating-top-his-class/) A link to such a claim by Trump himself would be useful. Maybe I missed it but I didn’t spot it. The article and the articles to which it links say that he has not corrected others who say he graduated first. Without any such claim by Trump himself this simply does not stand up. It also highlights bad reporting by the sources they checked - those sources should have verified the information themselves. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2017, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-donald-trump-really-that-bad/779135/137 "2017-02-20T23:44:09Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > A link to such a claim by Trump himself would be useful. Maybe I missed it but I didn’t spot it. The article and the articles to which it links say that he has not corrected others who say he graduated first. Without any such claim by Trump himself this simply does not stand up. It also highlights bad reporting by the sources they checked - those sources should have verified the information themselves. Interesting. The earliest cite I could find is from a New York Times article in [1973](http://www.nytimes.com/1973/01/28/archives/a-builder-looks-backand-moves-forward-builder-looks-back-but-moves.html), but it is not a quote from Trump himself, but rather information given in a profile of Donald Trump’s father, Fred. What my assumption is, is that Fred was talking up his son Donald, and boasted that he graduated first in his class, the reporter never looked into it, and it’s since been reported as fact. (Unless the reporter himself decided to make that up out of whole cloth, which I doubt.) I can’t seem to find anyplace where Donald himself claims to have graduated first, just, like you said, he doesn’t correct people when they say he did. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2017, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-donald-trump-really-that-bad/779135/138 "2017-02-21T00:11:07Z")
I don’t know where the “graduated first in class” started but it definitely was false. Further Trump did not make the Dean’s list either. > **[Trump flaunts Wharton degree, but his college years remain a mystery](https://www.thedp.com/article/2015/08/donald-trump-wharton-classmates)** > > Trump's classmates remember him as > [@](#): > > Despite Trump’s repeated mention of Wharton, his own classmates hardly remember him, and he even describes the school’s high-flung reputation as overwrought in his 1986 book, “Trump: The Art of the Deal.” > > “In my opinion, that [Wharton] degree doesn’t prove very much, but a lot of people I do business with take it very seriously, and it’s considered very prestigious,” Trump wrote. > > … > During Trump’s rise to the top of the real estate development world, various news publications exaggerated his academic achievements at Wharton, according to a 2011 Salon magazine article. > > Reports of Trump’s grades at Wharton vary. The New York Times reported in 1973 and 1976 that he graduated first in his class. But in a 1985 biography of Trump, Jerome Tuccille wrote that he was not an honor student and “spent a lot of time on outside business activities.” > > Another biographer, Gwenda Blair, wrote in 2001 that Trump was admitted to Wharton on a special favor from a “friendly” admissions officer. The officer had known Trump’s older brother, Freddy. > … > “He was not in any kind of leadership. I certainly doubt he was the smartest guy in the class,” said Steve Perelman, a 1968 Wharton classmate and a former Daily Pennsylvanian news editor. > > Some classmates speculated that Trump skipped class, others that he commuted to New York on weekends. > > “Four years — including lots of required classes — is a long time never to hear of a classmate, especially with such a distinctive name,” wrote 1968 Wharton graduate Larry Krohn, another one of Trump’s classmates, in an email. > > In a manner hardly consistent with his outsized personality, college-aged Donald Trump was barely seen around campus on weekends, remained uninvolved in most campus activities and his picture was even absent from the yearbook. While there’s no lack of Trump hotels, casinos and golf courses, no building on Penn’s campus bears his name. So let’s generously assume he was an average student, and let it go at that. But with the way he talks and seems to not read, I have to wonder about that. And if “various news publications exaggerated his academic achievements”, I have to wonder where they got it from. I suspect his daddy bought him his degree, with money and favors. ---
**Author:** ![Fretful\_Porpentine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fretful_porpentine/32/2873_2.png) [@Fretful\_Porpentine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fretful_Porpentine)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2017, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-donald-trump-really-that-bad/779135/139 "2017-02-21T01:05:09Z")
> [@](#): > > “Four years — including lots of required classes — is a long time never to hear of a classmate, especially with such a distinctive name,” wrote 1968 Wharton graduate Larry Krohn, another one of Trump’s classmates, in an email. FWIW, Trump was a transfer student, so he would only have been at Wharton for two years, not four. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2017, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-donald-trump-really-that-bad/779135/140 "2017-02-21T01:09:00Z")
> [@Fretful\_Porpentine](#): > > FWIW, Trump was a transfer student, so he would only have been at Wharton for two years, not four. Even so, you would think some people would remember him as being “something to talk about”, if he was as amazingly awesome as he claims. I was only average but at least SOME people remember me. :dubious: The few (very few) who seem to remember him at all sound as if they are describing someone who was average - not incredibly amazingly awesome and brilliant. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-donald-trump-really-that-bad/779135.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-donald-trump-really-that-bad/779135.md?page=8)