# Is Doug Mientkiewicz Being a Selfish Jerk? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 7, 2005, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-doug-mientkiewicz-being-a-selfish-jerk/283636 "2005-01-07T20:22:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2005, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-doug-mientkiewicz-being-a-selfish-jerk/283636/101 "2005-01-11T04:10:02Z")
> [@shelbo](#): > > As a disinterested third party (well, somewhat interested, as I’ve bothered to read this thread, and post this response) I’ll play judge: > > Based on the arguments and cites presented, and giving due consideration to the principles of agency law, as well as the (unsubstantiated) claims of “industry custom and practice”, Judge Shelbo hereby decides as follows: > > 1. Mientkiewicz was acting as an employee of the Boston Red Sox organization at the time the ball in question was thrown to him (by another empolyee of the Boston Red Sox). > > 2. His catching the ball was an act taken during the course of his employment, and was an action taken within the scope of such employment. The ball has a material value, and is therefore properly characterized as the “fruits of his labor”. > > 3. Therefore, under the laws of agency and the corresponding fiduciary duties owed by an agent to his principal, as well as as a matter of public policy, the ball is the property of the Boston Red Sox organization, and must be returned to an authorized representative of the organization as soon as reasonably practicable. To rule otherwise would be to endanger the very future of professional baseball (we don’t want the post-victory team-pile-up-on-the-mound to morph into a battle for the baseball for god’s sake!). > > So ordered. I note that the usual avenues for appeal remain available to the repondant – but you’d better bring some better cites and arguments than “it’s always been that way, I swear”. Prove 2. Prove 3. ---
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2005, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-doug-mientkiewicz-being-a-selfish-jerk/283636/102 "2005-01-11T04:19:34Z")
> [@cricetus](#): > > Prove 2. Prove 3. 1. He was playing first base in the World Series when he obtained the ball. 2. See previous legal citations. And feel free to discuss them. You’d be the first to do so in this thread, other than me. ---
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2005, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-doug-mientkiewicz-being-a-selfish-jerk/283636/103 "2005-01-11T04:30:38Z")
> [@minty green](#): > > 1. He was playing first base in the World Series when he obtained the ball. > > 2. See previous legal citations. And feel free to discuss them. You’d be the first to do so in this thread, other than me. Assertions are not citations, minty. For all your pseudo-lawyering, you haven’t done the magic trick of turning a baseball into an apple. ---
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2005, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-doug-mientkiewicz-being-a-selfish-jerk/283636/104 "2005-01-11T04:33:55Z")
For all your incessant whining, pigs still haven’t achieved take-off speed from your bowels. Now, do you have a point? ---
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2005, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-doug-mientkiewicz-being-a-selfish-jerk/283636/105 "2005-01-11T04:37:17Z")
> [@minty green](#): > > For all your incessant whining, pigs still haven’t achieved take-off speed from your bowels. > > Now, do you have a point? My point was made ages ago, but you missed it because you were too busy preparing your Next Big Case. Instead of looking at the facts. Your lame insult isn’t any better than your pseudo-lawyering. It also isn’t appropriate to GD. ---
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2005, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-doug-mientkiewicz-being-a-selfish-jerk/283636/106 "2005-01-11T04:42:05Z")
Last I checked, I was the only one here who’s provided any legal authority in support of his position. Get thee to a law library, cricketus. ---
**Author:** ![Lilairen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8491ac/32.png) [@Lilairen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lilairen)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2005, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-doug-mientkiewicz-being-a-selfish-jerk/283636/107 "2005-01-11T04:48:48Z")
The final out ball from the 1983 World Series is on display in the Babe Ruth Museum. It belongs to Cal Ripken; he chose to loan it to them. (He caught it, you see.) The entire thing is Shaughnessy fleshing out a slow sports news day by playing “Let’s you and him fight.” Again. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2005, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-doug-mientkiewicz-being-a-selfish-jerk/283636/108 "2005-01-11T04:50:13Z")
> [@minty green](#): > > I’ve been saying that all along Like hell you have. Multiple cites available for anyone who cares to scroll up. > [@](#): > > That’s all very nice, but would you mind answering the question I asked? I did, you haven’t been reading. Look, it’s pretty damn obvious that you jumped to a conclusion in haste to be the first to answer the OP. You don’t need to try to prop it up with assertion after assertion, ignoring or sideslipping any point that might undermine your claim to superior judgment. It’s okay, really. Getting it right in the end is what matters. You can reconsider and we won’t think less of you. Really. Now do go back and reconsider the import of all the precedents that give the player ownership of the ball, without a team ever demanding it, every time it’s happened in a century. Surely, by your own reasoning, not only MLB but the teams and the players have this as an established policy, agreed to by all parties. ---
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2005, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-doug-mientkiewicz-being-a-selfish-jerk/283636/109 "2005-01-11T04:52:31Z")
> [@minty green](#): > > Last I checked, I was the only one here who’s provided any legal authority in support of his position. Get thee to a law library, cricketus. I’ve seen a lot of assertions in lawyerish language. I haven’t seen any links or footnotes in your posts that are obviously applicable to this case. The fact is, it’s Doug’s ball. Like it or lump it. The RedSox have already lumped it, saying they WANT the ball, but backing off from claims that they OWN the ball. ---
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2005, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-doug-mientkiewicz-being-a-selfish-jerk/283636/110 "2005-01-11T04:54:03Z")
> [@minty green](#): > > Last I checked, I was the only one here who’s provided any legal authority in support of his position. Get thee to a law library, cricketus. ’ What you consider to be legal authority and what is, in fact, legal authority are not the same thing. It’s like comparing, well, apples and baseballs. ---
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2005, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-doug-mientkiewicz-being-a-selfish-jerk/283636/111 "2005-01-11T04:58:19Z")
A thousand pardons for citing those things I found in the law library this morning. My anticipation for your rebuttal citations is overwhelming. When come back, bring law. No, really. Bring some goddamn law to the table. I dare you. ---
**Author:** ![Snooooopy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee7513/32.png) [@Snooooopy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snooooopy)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2005, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-doug-mientkiewicz-being-a-selfish-jerk/283636/112 "2005-01-11T05:12:32Z")
> [@cricetus](#): > > Of course, it’s a lot easier to call all the Mientkiewicz’s in the phone book than to call all the Becketts. But not to pronounce it! ---
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2005, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-doug-mientkiewicz-being-a-selfish-jerk/283636/113 "2005-01-11T05:15:17Z")
> [@minty green](#): > > A thousand pardons for citing those things I found in the law library this morning. My anticipation for your rebuttal citations is overwhelming. > > When come back, bring law. > > No, really. Bring some goddamn law to the table. I dare you. You seriously think Deep Sea Research, Inc. v. Brother Jonathan and Bemis v. RMS Lusitania are the appropriate test cases? We’re talking baseball, and you’re talking sea salvage. Before you get to Hockley vs. White Star Line Co., let’s recap the current situation: Mientkiewicz: thinks he owns the ball MLB: says Mientkiewicz owns the ball RedSox: concede the Mientkiewicz owns the ball precedent: Mientkiewicz owns the ball I don’t need to have a test case to prove Mientkiewicz owns the ball. The proof of the pudding is in the eating. He has the ball. Ergo the ball is his. ---
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2005, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-doug-mientkiewicz-being-a-selfish-jerk/283636/114 "2005-01-11T05:21:41Z")
> [@Snooooopy](#): > > But not to pronounce it! “Is this Misses My-ent-ky-wik-zuh?” ---
**Author:** ![Snooooopy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee7513/32.png) [@Snooooopy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snooooopy)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2005, 5:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-doug-mientkiewicz-being-a-selfish-jerk/283636/115 "2005-01-11T05:23:31Z")
> [@cricetus](#): > > “Is this Misses My-ent-ky-wik-zuh?” “Uh … uh … Mrs. Doug’s Mom, you suck!” ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2005, 6:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-doug-mientkiewicz-being-a-selfish-jerk/283636/116 "2005-01-11T06:33:14Z")
Well the fact remains Doug will never have to give up that ball if he doesn’t want to. In MLB a team doesn’t cross the MLB organization itself. MLB says it is his, so for all practical purposes it is, and for all realistic and theoretical purposes it is too (because MLB never explicitly ceded any ball hit into play, and as long as you claim that you are wrong.) So if the Red Sox get the ball back it will be because Doug decides to hand it back. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2005, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-doug-mientkiewicz-being-a-selfish-jerk/283636/117 "2005-01-11T15:42:17Z")
> [@cricetus](#): > > “Is this Misses My-ent-ky-wik-zuh?” I seem to recall that, when he broke into the majors, it was pronounced MINK-a-witz. Only later did he change it to min-KAY-vitch. Still shoulda let that clerk at Ellis Island shorten it. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2005, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-doug-mientkiewicz-being-a-selfish-jerk/283636/118 "2005-01-11T16:36:43Z")
Just to confuse things: [this guy](http://www.boston.com/news/globe/editorial_opinion/letters/articles/2005/01/10/who_has_the_ball/) seems to say that the ball actually belongs to the St. Louis Cardinals. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2005, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-doug-mientkiewicz-being-a-selfish-jerk/283636/119 "2005-01-11T16:59:41Z")
The guy’s basis for thinking so is his false assertion (he even says it’s in the rule book!) that balls are provided by the home team. They are not. ---
**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2005, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-doug-mientkiewicz-being-a-selfish-jerk/283636/120 "2005-01-11T17:12:13Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > I seem to recall that, when he broke into the majors, it was pronounced MINK-a-witz. Only later did he change it to min-KAY-vitch. Still shoulda let that clerk at Ellis Island shorten it. When he played here at FSU, it was always pronounced min-KAY-vitch. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-doug-mientkiewicz-being-a-selfish-jerk/283636.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-doug-mientkiewicz-being-a-selfish-jerk/283636.md?page=7)