# Is "Dr. Jane Doe, PhD" redundant? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [March 27, 2013, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-dr-jane-doe-phd-redundant/654123 "2013-03-27T19:08:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Speaker\_for\_the\_Dead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c77e96/32.png) [@Speaker\_for\_the\_Dead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Speaker_for_the_Dead)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2013, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-dr-jane-doe-phd-redundant/654123/1 "2013-03-27T19:08:30Z")
This might have a straightforward answer. I’m just curious about the construction in the subject. “MD” or “DDS” could replace “PhD,” there. On one hand, it kind of makes sense, since it clarifies what kind of doctor. But on the other, “Jane Doe, PhD” has just as much information. Writing it out highlights the silliness: “Doctor Jane Doe, Medical Doctor.” Opinions? Is there an official answer? Do specific academies opine? ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2013, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-dr-jane-doe-phd-redundant/654123/2 "2013-03-27T19:10:46Z")
Yes, it’s redundant. ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2013, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-dr-jane-doe-phd-redundant/654123/3 "2013-03-27T19:22:12Z")
Thank you for clarifying red red salamander. ---
**Author:** ![BellRungBookShut-CandleSnuffed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bcef8e/32.png) [@BellRungBookShut-CandleSnuffed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BellRungBookShut-CandleSnuffed)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2013, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-dr-jane-doe-phd-redundant/654123/4 "2013-03-27T20:45:41Z")
> [@Drunky\_Smurf](#): > > Thank you for clarifying red red salamander. Hey, I don’t want to hear anything outta you, human wise wise. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2013, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-dr-jane-doe-phd-redundant/654123/5 "2013-03-27T20:52:23Z")
No, of course not, it isn’t. Dr. Jane Doe wants you do know she is not a rug doctor, a lawn doctor, or heaven forbid, a physician. ---
**Author:** ![Mops](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mops/32/16494_2.png) [@Mops](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mops)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2013, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-dr-jane-doe-phd-redundant/654123/6 "2013-03-27T21:16:13Z")
It’s not redundant if Jane Doe, PhD has got _another_ doctorate that did not come with a postnominal title. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2013, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-dr-jane-doe-phd-redundant/654123/7 "2013-03-27T21:19:01Z")
> [@Mops](#): > > It’s not redundant if Jane Doe, PhD has got _another_ doctorate that did not come with a postnominal title. And what doctorate does not come with postnomials? Hint they all do. ---
**Author:** ![Randvek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a6a055/32.png) [@Randvek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Randvek)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2013, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-dr-jane-doe-phd-redundant/654123/8 "2013-03-27T21:20:37Z")
> [@Mops](#): > > It’s not redundant if Jane Doe, PhD has got _another_ doctorate that did not come with a postnominal title. ^ agree with this. If she’s “just” a doctor, it’s redundant. If she’s got anything else beyond an MD, there’s no problem. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2013, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-dr-jane-doe-phd-redundant/654123/9 "2013-03-27T21:35:39Z")
“The Dr.? That’s short for Drusilla; I was named after my grandmother. But I usually go by Jane, my middle name. By an amazing coincidence, there’s another doctor on staff here named Daphne Jane Doe and she uses her middle name also. So we started calling ourselves Da. Jane Doe and Dr. Jane Doe to avoid any confusion.” ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2013, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-dr-jane-doe-phd-redundant/654123/10 "2013-03-27T21:44:12Z")
You use the “Dr.” in the same circumstances you would use “Ms.” For instance, if you’re making a list of people and everyone has “Mr.” or “Ms.” in front of their names, then the one with the PhD will start with “Dr.” ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2013, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-dr-jane-doe-phd-redundant/654123/11 "2013-03-27T22:05:17Z")
> [@Speaker\_for\_the\_Dead](#): > > This might have a straightforward answer. I’m just curious about the construction in the subject. “MD” or “DDS” could replace “PhD,” there. On one hand, it kind of makes sense, since it clarifies what kind of doctor. But on the other, “Jane Doe, PhD” has just as much information. Writing it out highlights the silliness: “Doctor Jane Doe, Medical Doctor.” “Jane Doe, PhD” has all of the required information but it doesn’t have the respect afforded by the title “Doctor”. The information is basically there twice, but for different reasons. So no, in my opinion it is not redundant. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2013, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-dr-jane-doe-phd-redundant/654123/12 "2013-03-27T22:13:10Z")
> [@Richard\_Pearse](#): > > “Jane Doe, PhD” has all of the required information but it doesn’t have the respect afforded by the title “Doctor”. The information is basically there twice, but for different reasons. So no, in my opinion it is not redundant. Yes, it’s redundant. Speaking as someone who has one, no one with a Ph.D. would list themselves that way unless they wanted to look like a complete fool to their colleagues. Adding “Dr.” doesn’t get you any more respect except from those who are ignorant of the convention. Jane Doe, Ph.D. is completely sufficient. You would lose respect, rather than gain it, by adding “Dr.” ---
**Author:** ![Mops](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mops/32/16494_2.png) [@Mops](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mops)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2013, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-dr-jane-doe-phd-redundant/654123/13 "2013-03-27T22:16:31Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > And what doctorate does not come with postnomials? Hint they all do. That may be true for US doctorates but not worldwide. Jane Doe may have picked up a PhD in the US, a _Dr. rer. silv._ in Germany and a \*Dr. med. vet. \*in Austria and would, in this case, be Dr. Dr. Jane Doe, PhD. ---
**Author:** ![Pai325](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c68b51/32.png) [@Pai325](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pai325)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2013, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-dr-jane-doe-phd-redundant/654123/14 "2013-03-27T22:27:43Z")
Yes, it’s redundant. It reminds me of the credits on the Bill Cosby Show, where he was listed like that only E.D., not PhD, and made me laugh every week. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2013, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-dr-jane-doe-phd-redundant/654123/15 "2013-03-27T23:26:01Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Yes, it’s redundant. Speaking as someone who has one, no one with a Ph.D. would list themselves that way unless they wanted to look like a complete fool to their colleagues. Adding “Dr.” doesn’t get you any more respect except from those who are ignorant of the convention. > > Jane Doe, Ph.D. is completely sufficient. You would lose respect, rather than gain it, by adding “Dr.” Well I bow to your direct experience. I was just thinking that one is a title and the other is a qualification and they each serve a different purpose even if they are carrying the same information. (The qualification giving the reason for the title without being able to replace the title itself.) Edit: [This agrees with you that it is redundant.](http://www.noslangues-ourlanguages.gc.ca/bien-well/fra-eng/typographie-typography/doctor-eng.html) > [@](#): > > But, if you choose the polite form, you need to consider what the Oxford’s Guide to Canadian English Usage has to say about this. The Guide says “If the degree… is listed after the name, the honorific is not used before the name.” The Canadian Style agrees. It is incorrect to write Dr. Jack Frost, PhD. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2013, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-dr-jane-doe-phd-redundant/654123/16 "2013-03-27T23:28:12Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Yes, it’s redundant. Speaking as someone who has one, no one with a Ph.D. would list themselves that way unless they wanted to look like a complete fool to their colleagues. Adding “Dr.” doesn’t get you any more respect except from those who are ignorant of the convention. > > Jane Doe, Ph.D. is completely sufficient. You would lose respect, rather than gain it, by adding “Dr.” I agree. Only use Dr. for medical degrees, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2013, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-dr-jane-doe-phd-redundant/654123/17 "2013-03-27T23:49:44Z")
So Jane Doe should be referred to, formally, as “Ms. Jane Doe”? ---
**Author:** ![morgensd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@morgensd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/morgensd)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2013, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-dr-jane-doe-phd-redundant/654123/18 "2013-03-27T23:57:37Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > I agree. Only use Dr. for medical degrees, etc. This may work in North America but in Europe, PhD and other advanced degree holders get more respect. Dr. Jane Doe is the appropriate form of address for these non-medical degree holders. Dr. morgensd ---
**Author:** ![rsat3acr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a3d4f5/32.png) [@rsat3acr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rsat3acr)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2013, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-dr-jane-doe-phd-redundant/654123/19 "2013-03-28T00:02:49Z")
I had a patient once whose name was printed on his checks: Dr. So and So,DPM, Podiatrist ret. Mentioned it three times. Insisted that I call him “Doctor” but would only call me by my first name. What an ego. ---
**Author:** ![dstarfire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dstarfire/32/5762_2.png) [@dstarfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dstarfire)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2013, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-dr-jane-doe-phd-redundant/654123/20 "2013-03-28T00:34:26Z")
> [@rsat3acr](#): > > I had a patient once whose name was printed on his checks: > Dr. So and So,DPM, Podiatrist ret. > Mentioned it three times. Insisted that I call him “Doctor” but would only call me by my first name. What an ego. What idiot in their right mind wold rather see “Bob” about an embarrassing rash rather than “Dr. Bob”?!?! [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-dr-jane-doe-phd-redundant/654123.md?page=2)