# Is Dr. Seuss "a bit of a cliché, a tired and worn ambassador for children's literature"? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 28, 2017, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-dr-seuss-a-bit-of-a-cliche-a-tired-and-worn-ambassador-for-childrens-literature/797530 "2017-09-28T16:41:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![lisiate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f05b48/32.png) [@lisiate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lisiate)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2017, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-dr-seuss-a-bit-of-a-cliche-a-tired-and-worn-ambassador-for-childrens-literature/797530/61 "2017-09-29T21:46:03Z")
I think all sides in the American culture wars could really benefit from taking the time to read _Sneetches on Beaches_ a few dozen times to their kids. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2017, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-dr-seuss-a-bit-of-a-cliche-a-tired-and-worn-ambassador-for-childrens-literature/797530/62 "2017-09-29T21:56:11Z")
> [@lisiate](#): > > I think all sides in the American culture wars could really benefit from taking the time to read _Sneetches on Beaches_ a few dozen times to their kids. [Liz Phipps Soeiro] No, instead our primary schoolers should be reading _Sneetches Get Steeches_ to learn about the plight of our urban youth gangs. [/Liz Phipps Soeiro] (ETA: I should have known somebody [already thought of this](https://www.google.com/search?q=%22Sneetches+get+Steeches%22).) ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2017, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-dr-seuss-a-bit-of-a-cliche-a-tired-and-worn-ambassador-for-childrens-literature/797530/63 "2017-09-29T23:45:01Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > Someone has [dug up photos](https://twitter.com/Cport_Special/status/572793892287991810) of Phipps Soeiro supporting Seuss books before this. ([This before and after comparison is mine](https://imgur.com/a/zbjW4).) Whelp, that answers the “Is this about the books or the giver?” question. Which I guess was never much of a question. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2017, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-dr-seuss-a-bit-of-a-cliche-a-tired-and-worn-ambassador-for-childrens-literature/797530/64 "2017-09-30T00:46:47Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > [Moderating] > > **drad dog** , I’m not sure what to make of this post. Best I can figure out is that it’s meant to be a political slam against Donald Trump, though I’m not sure I’ve seen him called a “baboon” before. If that’s what it is, then cut it out: I realize that this thread inevitably has some connection to politics, but it’s only as regards this one specific action, by Melania rather than by Donald. > > If you meant this post in some other way, please explain more clearly what you meant. I guess I was saying that all acts are political and it’s not surprising when another statement gets made and people are up in arms. And i wonder if it might not be a valid form of communication now: outrage is a political tool no less for one side than another. It was a political statement that she is responsible for now. Is it a good or bad statement? That’s history, and, her business, now that I think of it. Actually I do regret the gesture and my own post. I have not seen any other support of her in a cursory scan of the news. You have to weigh the offense, and the proportionality of the response to it. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2017, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-dr-seuss-a-bit-of-a-cliche-a-tired-and-worn-ambassador-for-childrens-literature/797530/65 "2017-09-30T01:01:55Z")
Dr. Seuss is a very young children’s book. Parents read it to their kids starting around age 4. It’s on a shelf and forgotten by the time they are 8. It’s absurd to label Dr Seuss boring or out of touch. Are librarians bashing Hans Christian Andersen too? Does this Librarian know the origins of children’s nursery rhymes and fairy tales? They are pretty grisly. I accept nursery stories and Dr. Seuss for what they are. Harmless entertainment for young children. They help them develop an interest in reading. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2017, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-dr-seuss-a-bit-of-a-cliche-a-tired-and-worn-ambassador-for-childrens-literature/797530/66 "2017-09-30T01:08:32Z")
I guess librarians will go after Johanna Spyri and call Heidi sexist and boring next. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2017, 8:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-dr-seuss-a-bit-of-a-cliche-a-tired-and-worn-ambassador-for-childrens-literature/797530/67 "2017-09-30T08:34:02Z")
> [@Nars\_Glinley](#): > > I think that you’re reading more into my OP than I actually put there. I’m FAR more interested in the current thinking regarding the works of Dr. Seuss than the actions, motivations or political leanings of the librarian. I think you misunderstood. I’m not talking about your OP. I’m talking about the article. I know what you wanted to know, but that was answered fairly early on, and the conversation seemed to have moved on to vilifying the librarian. And I expressed my reasoning that she (and her letter) are not nearly as bad as everyone makes her out to be. That said, I did offer what I thought was an interesting perspective: that she wasn’t saying the works are cliched, but that using them as “an ambassador” to literacy in children was cliched. And I can see that argument. Seuss books are the type of thing you’d include in a TV show to get across a “children’s book.” It’s like giving your dad a tie for Father’s Day. And that consulting with the librarian to get something more meaningful would have been a better gift. Though doing it for schools that lack libraries would be even better. I have to admit, as a reward, I wouldn’t want Seuss either. Give me a plaque I can show people, not some book that everyone and their dog has already read. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2017, 10:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-dr-seuss-a-bit-of-a-cliche-a-tired-and-worn-ambassador-for-childrens-literature/797530/68 "2017-09-30T10:05:09Z")
But the Seuss books are very entertaining for small children–the point is to get them interested in reading while maybe teaching a very subtle lesson. Ask a 5-year-old if they want to be read\* The Cat in the Hat\* or _My Two Gay Illegal Immigrant Muslem Daddies Are Being Descriminated Against In INS Detention And I Feel Really Bad_, and guess which one they will pick? _ET_ and _Schindler’s List_ are both perfectly acceptable Spielberg movies, but they aren’t interchangeable. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2017, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-dr-seuss-a-bit-of-a-cliche-a-tired-and-worn-ambassador-for-childrens-literature/797530/69 "2017-09-30T13:32:28Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > I have to admit, as a reward, I wouldn’t want Seuss either. Give me a plaque I can show people, not some book that everyone and their dog has already read. I bet the kids would rather have some books embossed by the White House than a plaque on the wall, though. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2017, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-dr-seuss-a-bit-of-a-cliche-a-tired-and-worn-ambassador-for-childrens-literature/797530/70 "2017-09-30T14:24:34Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Seuss books are the type of thing you’d include in a TV show to get across a “children’s book.” It’s like giving your dad a tie for Father’s Day. But that’s only because dads don’t usually want/like the ties their kids pick out. Kids love Dr Seuss though. I’d say it’s cliched more like serving cake and ice cream for a kid’s 6th birthday. You can fold your arms and say “Pfftt… chocolate cake? How thirty years ago! They could be eating nutritious and horizon-expanding artichoke flan” but the kids are still going to like chocolate cake more and you’re just demonstrating how out of touch you are. Of course, in this instance, we now know that the librarian was only pissy because the name ‘Trump’ was attached and she’d probably throw away Melania’s sheet cake and feed the kids artichoke flan just to make a point. ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2017, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-dr-seuss-a-bit-of-a-cliche-a-tired-and-worn-ambassador-for-childrens-literature/797530/71 "2017-09-30T21:01:41Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > I agree that the “alternate books” should have been presented as “in addition to” rather than “in lieu of” if they had to be mentioned at all. I’m sure they’re all simply wonderful books but, as I said, the librarian seems to completely miss what makes Seuss a classic in her rush to toss out a list of Social Justice for Kids titles. Had she at least said “Here’s some other, newer authors and works for you to consider adding to your own list”, it wouldn’t have come across as so incredibly tone deaf. I don’t think the librarian did a very good job of making her point (and FWIW I’m a librarian), but she didn’t say that the books she was recommending were supposed to replace Dr. Seuss books. [She said](http://www.hbook.com/2017/09/blogs/family-reading/dear-mrs-trump/#_): > [@Liz Phipps Soeiro](#): > > Books can be a powerful way to learn about and experience the world around us; they help build empathy and understanding. In return, [I’m attaching a list of ten books (it’s the librarian in me) that I hope will offer you a window into the lives of the many children affected by the policies of your husband’s administration](http://www.hbook.com/2017/09/blogs/family-reading/dear-mrs-trump-booklist/). You and your husband have a direct impact on these children’s lives. Please make time to learn about and value them. I hope you share these books with your family and with kids around the country. And I encourage you to reach out to your local librarian for more recommendations. She’s not claiming that books like _Separate Is Never Equal: Sylvia Mendez & Her Family’s Fight for Desegregation_ and _Mama’s Nightingale: A Story of Immigration and Separation_ are laugh-out-loud fun for 5 year olds, or that 5 year olds should never read anything amusing. She’s explicitly recommending these books as a way to learn about other people. ---
**Author:** ![Okrahoma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90db22/32.png) [@Okrahoma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Okrahoma)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2017, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-dr-seuss-a-bit-of-a-cliche-a-tired-and-worn-ambassador-for-childrens-literature/797530/72 "2017-10-01T02:35:14Z")
> ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2017, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-dr-seuss-a-bit-of-a-cliche-a-tired-and-worn-ambassador-for-childrens-literature/797530/73 "2017-10-01T03:19:43Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > I have to admit, as a reward, I wouldn’t want Seuss either. Give me a plaque I can show people, not some book that everyone and their dog has already read. I suspect the librarian in question would have rejected the plaque too, and aired a letter on social media to that effect as well. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-dr-seuss-a-bit-of-a-cliche-a-tired-and-worn-ambassador-for-childrens-literature/797530.md?page=3)