# Is dressing like a slut "asking for it"? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 11, 2011, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-dressing-like-a-slut-asking-for-it/581519 "2011-05-11T14:30:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2011, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-dressing-like-a-slut-asking-for-it/581519/21 "2011-05-11T15:06:48Z")
> [@Jas09](#): > > Hmm. So you would then, from your earlier post, also say that the killing of bin Laden was unjustified? Yes, give the circumstances described. However, let’s not derail this important and controversial thread about women dressing like sluts and “asking for it” with trivialities such as the ObL matter. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2011, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-dressing-like-a-slut-asking-for-it/581519/22 "2011-05-11T15:07:38Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > The OP is a pretty weak straw-man of what other people were saying in the linked thread. The arguement wasn’t that dressing in revealing clothing made one morally responsible for being raped (or made the rapist less responsible), it was that it put someone at greater risk for being raped, and so it would be wise to dress more conservatively in situations where there might be some risk of sexual assault. I would say that some posts such as [**astro** ’s](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=13785020&postcount=24) did seem to find a moral value, and a responsibility for the result (“blame”), in “unwise” assumptions of risk. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2011, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-dressing-like-a-slut-asking-for-it/581519/23 "2011-05-11T15:47:18Z")
The “she was asking for it” line is a simple and obvious attempt to shift blame for the rape to the victim. I’m sure it would sail in some forums … try your average conservative forum and see what you get. Won’t sail on the Dope. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2011, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-dressing-like-a-slut-asking-for-it/581519/24 "2011-05-11T15:48:33Z")
My answer is the same as everyone’s, but I wanted to add one other thing: it’s similar to the definition of murder. Rape means that she by definition was not asking for it. I also would love to see a citation for what is asserted by **olives** in the other thread. I would think at least the type of rape where the person is aroused (and not angry) would correlate with how the person was dressed. I know (from another thread I can’t find) that, in cultures where women dress more conservatively, there is not a lower incidence of rape. Still, that doesn’t answer the question of whether, if a more provocatively dressed woman were present, she would be a larger target. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2011, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-dressing-like-a-slut-asking-for-it/581519/25 "2011-05-11T15:49:37Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > You bleeding heart liberal!!! I bet you condemn pushing grandma into oncoming traffic, too. You’re so predictable! > I believe that murder, by definition, is not justified. Murder, by definition, is not _legally_ justified. It’s conceivable for a killing to be morally or ethically justified and still illegal. ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2011, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-dressing-like-a-slut-asking-for-it/581519/26 "2011-05-11T16:08:26Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > You bleeding heart liberal!!! I bet you condemn pushing grandma into oncoming traffic, too. You’re so predictable! > I believe that murder, by definition, is not justified. But what if someone says “Yo’ mum’s a big ho, and I know becuz’ I did her?” ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2011, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-dressing-like-a-slut-asking-for-it/581519/27 "2011-05-11T16:09:31Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > If a woman says “Would you please have sex with me?”, is she asking for it? I’ve heard of at least one case where Ms X claimed that an even more direct phrasing than that should not have counted as asking for it, and that a drunk horny guy should know that the drunk horny girl in question would never soberly look at him. So it’s not as cut and dried as you’d think. ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2011, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-dressing-like-a-slut-asking-for-it/581519/28 "2011-05-11T16:09:35Z")
To the OP- No, of course not. But in some settings, neither is it a wise move. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2011, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-dressing-like-a-slut-asking-for-it/581519/29 "2011-05-11T16:11:49Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Murder, by definition, is not _legally_ justified. It’s conceivable for a killing to be morally or ethically justified and still illegal. Conceivable, but since the comparison is to rape, I don’t see how that is relevant. Was anyone in the rape thread arguing that there are times when it is “morally or ethically” justified to rape someone? ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2011, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-dressing-like-a-slut-asking-for-it/581519/30 "2011-05-11T16:12:38Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Conceivable, but since the comparison is to rape, I don’t see how that is relevant. Was anyone in the rape thread arguing that there are times when it is “morally or ethically” justified to rape someone? I didn’t read the rape thread. I cannot imagine a situation in which rape is morally or ethically justified. I commented as I did because I don’t think your analogy was apt. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2011, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-dressing-like-a-slut-asking-for-it/581519/31 "2011-05-11T16:23:04Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > I didn’t read the rape thread. I cannot imagine a situation in which rape is morally or ethically justified. I commented as I did because I don’t think your analogy was apt. It wasn’t my analogy. At was **Argent Towers** ’. But if we address the analogy, I suppose we can also say that “rape”, by definition, is never justified in the same way that “murder” is, by definition, never justified. ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2011, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-dressing-like-a-slut-asking-for-it/581519/32 "2011-05-11T16:27:56Z")
Look, “murder” is not an act. Murder is a criminal charge. The act is called killing. It is up to a jury to determine whether the killing was murder, or manslaughter or other things. (Actually, “manslaughter” sounds more gruesome than “murder”.) I am sure that Osama’s followers think the US murdered him. We here in the US think that he was “killed.” The comparison should be between “rape” and “killing,” not “rape” and “murder.” And while killing can be justified, rape cannot. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2011, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-dressing-like-a-slut-asking-for-it/581519/33 "2011-05-11T16:32:59Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > I don’t think dressing proactively…even means anything. You’re probably right - dressing proactively would mean anticipating the situations we might be in that day when we get dressed and dressing accordingly, but that’s pretty much automatic for most of us. Oh wait…you meant to say ‘provocatively,’ didn’t you? [Emily Litella] Never mind. [/Emily Litella] 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2011, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-dressing-like-a-slut-asking-for-it/581519/34 "2011-05-11T16:36:39Z")
Another vote for “of course not”. > [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > **olive’s** point–that rapists don’t choose victims (or even choose to be rapists) based on their attire–is very strong. I’ve honestly not heard it before, and would like some citations about it. I’ve heard that asserted on occasion and never bought it. It seems to go along with the claim that rape is always about power, never about sex and is always a political act. Apparently, there’s not a single male criminal on Earth motivated just by self indulgence. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2011, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-dressing-like-a-slut-asking-for-it/581519/35 "2011-05-11T16:37:46Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > Yeah, I really wonder what you expected or intended, in starting this thread. Did you expect anything other than “of course not” interspersed with a few joke responses? I thought the kinds of people who have such Neanderthal attitudes wouldn’t be posting here. Read the locked thread. ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2011, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-dressing-like-a-slut-asking-for-it/581519/36 "2011-05-11T16:44:14Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Another vote for “of course not”. > > I’ve heard that asserted on occasion and never bought it. It seems to go along with the claim that rape is always about power, never about sex and is always a political act. Apparently, there’s not a single male criminal on Earth motivated just by self indulgence. :rolleyes: I’m not a rapistist, but I’ll hazard a guess that there are basically two kinds of rapists: those who do it because it’s the _only_ way they can really get sexual gratification, in which case it is about power, and those who do it because it’s a crime of opportunity and they want sexual pleasure _but_ would just as well rather have consensual sex with the woman in question. I’ll also hazard a guess that the latter type of rapist is more common than the former. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2011, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-dressing-like-a-slut-asking-for-it/581519/37 "2011-05-11T16:46:44Z")
[tangent]Suppose a woman kidnaps other women and sells off sessions to rape them. Would sentencing that woman to multiple rape be justified?[/tangent] ontopic: Wearing sexy clothes isn’t asking for rape. It might be an unwise thing to do, depending on where you are because it marks you as a potential target. Like wearing an expensive Rolex or fiddling through your money clip in a bad neighborhood. ---
**Author:** ![tim314](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim314/32/3468_2.png) [@tim314](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tim314)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2011, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-dressing-like-a-slut-asking-for-it/581519/38 "2011-05-11T16:47:10Z")
Even if someone answered “Yes” to the question as phrased in the OP, I would have to assume they were trolling. I doubt you’d even be able to elicit a serious “yes” with the slightly less strawmannish question: Can the attire of the victim ever lessen the moral culpability of the rapist? I mean, come on, even if I go for a stroll in the most dangerous neighborhood in America, it doesn’t mean it’s morally any more OK for someone to murder me, right? On the other hand, one could argue that it makes my fate somewhat “my fault” (while at the same time not making my killler’s actions any more moral). And maybe if you asked the question that way, e.g. “Can a rape victim’s attire make her partially responsible for her vicitimization?” then you’d get a few serious “yes” replies. Not from me, though. ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2011, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-dressing-like-a-slut-asking-for-it/581519/39 "2011-05-11T16:54:28Z")
I remember when some Christian missionaries were killed by Somalian pirates, a lot of people right here on this board were in effect saying “they got what they deserved,” because “anyone sailing a yacht in those waters should KNOW BETTER”. I assume, by these individuals’ reasoning, the same is true of someone who goes walking through the ghetto wearing a three piece suit and carrying a big expensive-looking briefcase. ---
**Author:** ![woodstockbirdybird](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/woodstockbirdybird/32/7905_2.png) [@woodstockbirdybird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/woodstockbirdybird)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2011, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-dressing-like-a-slut-asking-for-it/581519/40 "2011-05-11T17:12:38Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > I remember when some Christian missionaries were killed by Somalian pirates, a lot of people right here on this board were in effect saying “they got what they deserved,” because “anyone sailing a yacht in those waters should KNOW BETTER”. I assume, by these individuals’ reasoning, the same is true of someone who goes walking through the ghetto wearing a three piece suit and carrying a big expensive-looking briefcase. I would never say the people in those situations “got what they deserved”, but I would say they were at best dangerously naive. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-dressing-like-a-slut-asking-for-it/581519.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-dressing-like-a-slut-asking-for-it/581519.md?page=3)