# Is "Dutch" racist? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 10, 2000, 5:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-dutch-racist/28807 "2000-08-10T05:31:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Coldfire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@Coldfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coldfire)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2000, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-dutch-racist/28807/21 "2000-08-10T15:37:31Z")
The most amazing thing about the Irish - Dutch relationship (which is indeed exellent), is the fact that they **still** want to party with us after 150 defeats in a row šŸ˜ƒ Oh, and Larrigan? Spot-on about the Orangemen issue. Traditions that harm others should be abolished. ---
**Author:** ![JoeyHemlock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7ba0ec/32.png) [@JoeyHemlock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoeyHemlock)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2000, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-dutch-racist/28807/22 "2000-08-10T15:48:08Z")
Thanks all (especially Coldfire) for clearing this up! Consider this one more piece of ignorance erradicated from the Earth (but there is still a lot leftā€¦). Incidently, the reason that I asked is that my grandfather was born in The Netherlands, and I wanted to make sure that I wasnā€™t doing him a dishonor by saying Iā€™m of Dutch ancestry. Now I know. šŸ™‚ Thanks again. ---
**Author:** ![TwistofFate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@TwistofFate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TwistofFate)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2000, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-dutch-racist/28807/23 "2000-08-10T15:49:09Z")
BTW- isnt the Irish dutch match on at the same time that youā€™ll be over here? ---
**Author:** ![Coldfire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@Coldfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coldfire)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2000, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-dutch-racist/28807/24 "2000-08-10T15:55:01Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by JoeyHemlock \* > **Incidently, the reason that I asked is that my grandfather was born in The Netherlands, and I wanted to make sure that I wasnā€™t doing him a dishonor by saying Iā€™m of Dutch ancestry.** No sir! It is an _honour_ to be able to say that šŸ˜‰ Whereā€™s your grandfather from? Larrigan: unfortunately, that game is September 2nd. That would have been supercool though! ---
**Author:** ![BobT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e8cbc/32.png) [@BobT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobT)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2000, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-dutch-racist/28807/25 "2000-08-10T16:22:35Z")
Iā€™m always somewhat embarrassed visiting the Netherlands because it seems that the Dutch speak English better than a native English speaker like I. Then again, I tried to learn some Dutch off of some instructional tapes and decided to forget about it. Since I wasnā€™t going way into the countryside, it wasnā€™t a problem. The Dutch also seem to have one of the most efficient rail services in all of Europe. I assume the size of the country helps in that. ---
**Author:** ![TampaFlyer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/71e660/32.png) [@TampaFlyer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TampaFlyer)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2000, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-dutch-racist/28807/26 "2000-08-10T19:17:28Z")
\> a somewhat derogatory fashion, as in ā€œDutch treatā€, How is that derogatory? It just means each person pays for his own stuff. ---
**Author:** ![yabob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yabob/32/2821_2.png) [@yabob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yabob)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2000, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-dutch-racist/28807/27 "2000-08-10T20:16:18Z")
Dutch wasnā€™t a racist, he just terrorized everybody ā€¦ ---
**Author:** ![ENugent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/4af34b/32.png) [@ENugent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ENugent)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2000, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-dutch-racist/28807/28 "2000-08-10T20:45:07Z")
> [@](#): > > Iā€™m always somewhat embarrassed visiting the Netherlands because it seems that the Dutch speak English better than a native English speaker like I. An excellent example. šŸ˜‰ ---
**Author:** ![John\_Corrado](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a88e4f/32.png) [@John\_Corrado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Corrado)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2000, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-dutch-racist/28807/29 "2000-08-10T20:54:23Z")
**Tampa Flyer** asked: > [@](#): > > How is that derogatory? It just means each person pays for his own stuff. Like Scotsmen, the Dutch had a negative sterotype of being incredibly cheap. When FDR began looking very haggard in 1944, one of his advisors said, ā€œHe looks so bad because heā€™s lost so much weight, and the damned Dutchman in him wonā€™t let him go out and buy new shirts.ā€ When you are _treated_, you are invited to dinner and have it paid for you. When you are _Dutch treated_, you are invited to dinner and then expected to pay for your share. Itā€™s not much of a treat. John Corrado (Half Italian, Half Welsh. I get really depressed, and really loud about it.) ---
**Author:** ![Amok](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f17d59/32.png) [@Amok](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amok)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2000, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-dutch-racist/28807/30 "2000-08-10T20:59:04Z")
Ok, so where is Orange that these Williams were of? I did try looking that up myself on the net, but due to the apparent linguistic coincidence (unless Orange is very orange, or full of oranges, in which case it isnā€™t a coincidence, I suppose) there are a lot of entries for ā€˜Orangeā€™. When it comes to geographic place names, the only entries I noticed (ignoring entries like Orange County, CA) was a river in South Africa named the Orange River (forming one of the borders, appropriately enough, of the Orange Free State) and a city called Orange in the south of France. Given the timeline I assume the river (and Free State) in Africa were named after the original Orange by Dutch settlers, and not the other way around, but I couldnā€™t determine if the city in France is William of Orangeā€™s Orange. ---
**Author:** ![Balduran](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cc9497/32.png) [@Balduran](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balduran)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2000, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-dutch-racist/28807/31 "2000-08-10T20:59:17Z")
Isnā€™t Rik Smitā€™s nickname ā€œDutch Treatā€? ---
**Author:** ![Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/earl_snake-hips_tucker/32/3269_2.png) [@Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Earl_Snake-Hips_Tucker)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2000, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-dutch-racist/28807/32 "2000-08-10T20:59:33Z")
ā€œDutchā€ was used as a derogatory adjective ascribed by the English settlers, and referred to things that were not specifically ā€œDutch.ā€ (Remember they werenā€™t the best of friends in New Amsterdam.) Dutch treat: not a ā€œtreatā€ at all. Each pays his own. Dutch uncle: one who admonishes sternly and bluntly Dutch oven: rather primitive contraption Dutch courage: ā€œcourageā€ born of inebriation And there are probably more. ---
**Author:** ![yabob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yabob/32/2821_2.png) [@yabob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yabob)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2000, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-dutch-racist/28807/33 "2000-08-10T21:12:34Z")
> [@](#): > > ā€¦ but I couldnā€™t determine if the city in France is William of Orangeā€™s Orange. It was. [http://www.bartleby.com/65/or/OrangeFr.html](http://www.bartleby.com/65/or/OrangeFr.html) ---
**Author:** ![JoeyHemlock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7ba0ec/32.png) [@JoeyHemlock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoeyHemlock)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2000, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-dutch-racist/28807/34 "2000-08-10T21:21:51Z")
[QUOTE] \*Originally posted by Coldfire \* > [@](#): > > No sir! It is an _honour_ to be able to say that šŸ˜‰ > Whereā€™s your grandfather from? I asked my mom. Hereā€™s what she said (Forsten was his surname): > [@](#): > > He was from Groningen in the province of Groningen. He was born on the boat his father ran on the canals in Groningen. They sold peat for fuel. > Earlier the Forstens were from Wildervank and Veendam. All of our family in the Netherlands that I have found came from the province of Groningen. Itā€™s in the northernmost part of the Netherlands. I believe that just about everyone named Forsten in the Netherlands is related to us. > I have our Strating family back to about 1700, before they used surnames. Someone in the Netherlands sent it to me. Iā€™m stuck with my research because I canā€™t read the and written Dutch church records before 1811. If you know any Forstens, my mom would love to talk to them. ---
**Author:** ![Coldfire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@Coldfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coldfire)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2000, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-dutch-racist/28807/35 "2000-08-10T21:42:36Z")
Forsten is a VERY unusual name! Strating, however, is more common. Groningen is a beautiful city. Tell your mom I would be more than happy to help her out with translating stuff. Yup, Orange in the South of France is where our Royal Family is originally from. Oh, and weā€™re STILL considered cheapskates by some. The Belgians, mostly - Belgium is to us what Canada is to the US šŸ˜ƒ ---
**Author:** ![KeithB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/48db29/32.png) [@KeithB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KeithB)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2000, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-dutch-racist/28807/36 "2000-08-10T21:59:41Z")
All I know about William of Orange was from ā€œThe First Saluteā€ by Barbara Tuchman. You can see how _tough_ it can be to win a revolution, compared to the wimpy one we had hear in America. I have nothing but respect for the Dutch after reading how they threw off the Spanish. (The book is actually about the American Revolution, the ā€œFirst Saluteā€ was given by a small Dutch Colony in the Carribean who first officially recognized a ship sailing under the American Flag. It connects to William because the Dutch were sympathetic to our revolution because of theirsā€¦) ---
**Author:** ![mipsman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mipsman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mipsman)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2000, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-dutch-racist/28807/37 "2000-08-10T22:09:20Z")
I believe William of Orange landed at Lyme Regis in the south of England. There is a citric motif about him. ---
**Author:** ![BobT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e8cbc/32.png) [@BobT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobT)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2000, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-dutch-racist/28807/38 "2000-08-10T22:36:44Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ENugent \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > Iā€™m always somewhat embarrassed visiting the Netherlands because it seems that the Dutch speak English better than a native English speaker like I. > > An excellent example. šŸ˜‰ > \*\* Dā€™oh! I was being too careful and I ended up getting hoisted by my own petard. ---
**Author:** ![JoeyHemlock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7ba0ec/32.png) [@JoeyHemlock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoeyHemlock)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2000, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-dutch-racist/28807/39 "2000-08-10T22:46:38Z")
> [@](#): > > Tell your mom I would be more than happy to help her out with translating stuff. If youā€™re serious, Iā€™m sure sheā€™ll take you up on this. I have asked her to scan the pages she has and I will forward them to you. She absolutely loves geneology and any help she can get will be appreciated. You rock, Coldfire. You frigginā€™ rock. (I hope that translates well. :)) ---
**Author:** ![Coldfire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@Coldfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coldfire)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2000, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-dutch-racist/28807/40 "2000-08-10T23:27:16Z")
No problem Joey. As long as it isnā€™t 50 pages of translating, that is šŸ˜‰ [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-dutch-racist/28807.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-dutch-racist/28807.md?page=3)