# Is Egypt following the South Korean model? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 16, 2015, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-egypt-following-the-south-korean-model/715130 "2015-03-16T17:10:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Ryan\_Liam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ryan_liam/32/3965_2.png) [@Ryan\_Liam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ryan_Liam)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2015, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-egypt-following-the-south-korean-model/715130/1 "2015-03-16T17:10:35Z")
[http://www.themiddleeastmagazine.com/wp-mideastmag-live/2014/11/current-affairs-egypt-economic-development-conference/](http://www.themiddleeastmagazine.com/wp-mideastmag-live/2014/11/current-affairs-egypt-economic-development-conference/) There was an investor conference hosted by Al Sisi yesterday promising a new dawn in regards to Egypt’s flagging economy, promises of new investment worth 30 billion dollars, a second canal to be constructed, even a new capital city has been promised. I’m interested in this, I think of a parallel to South Korea or Taiwan where they had authoritarian governments, but promoted good business practices which eventually saw them become democratic and developed, could constructing the same kind of environment be beneficial to Egypt? Personally I take it with a pinch of salt, but I’d love to be wrong, no doubt the Egyptian people need to be having living standards comparable to people living in Turkey as an example. ---
**Author:** ![Steken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@Steken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steken)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2015, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-egypt-following-the-south-korean-model/715130/2 "2015-03-16T19:15:55Z")
[This article is pretty pessimistic](http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2015/03/egypt-to-build-a-potemkin-capital/387826/): > [@](#): > > Writing in the _Egyptian Observer_, the academic and Cairo native Khaled Fahmy argued that the money spent on the new capital “could solve the problems of Cairo’s inner cities where 63 percent of the city’s inhabitants live. We could provide them with all the basic needs that they have been deprived of over the past 50 years: potable water, health care, clean air, recreational facilities, and much more.” > > […] > > … A better comparison to the effort might be found in distant Burma. In 2005, the Southeast Asian nation moved its government from Rangoon, Burma’s largest city, to an uninhabited patch of land in the country’s center. (According to rumor, Burma’s then-president Than Shwe chose the location on the advice of his astrologer.) A decade later, the new capital, Naypyidaw, is a ghost town—a monument not to clever planning but to megalomania. ---
**Author:** ![Ryan\_Liam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ryan_liam/32/3965_2.png) [@Ryan\_Liam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ryan_Liam)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2015, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-egypt-following-the-south-korean-model/715130/3 "2015-03-17T00:20:52Z")
Do they ever learn? The mind boggles. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2015, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-egypt-following-the-south-korean-model/715130/4 "2015-03-17T00:22:56Z")
What is the model that east asian nations used to industrialize so quickly? Is there an actual formula? Authoritarian rule export based economy Business friendly legislation Investments in infrastructure and education I’d assume stuff like that came up, but is it consistent from nation to nation? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2015, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-egypt-following-the-south-korean-model/715130/5 "2015-03-17T01:39:36Z")
> [@Steken](#): > > [This article is pretty pessimistic](http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2015/03/egypt-to-build-a-potemkin-capital/387826/): Well, from what I’ve heard on the radio, the idea is to build a new capital on the outskirts of Cairo; so it would be more like New Delhi. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2015, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-egypt-following-the-south-korean-model/715130/6 "2015-03-17T01:42:50Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > What is the model that east asian nations used to industrialize so quickly? Is there an actual formula? > > Authoritarian rule > export based economy > Business friendly legislation > Investments in infrastructure and education > > I’d assume stuff like that came up, but is it consistent from nation to nation? See [_Dirigisme._](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dirigisme) (French name, but the Meiji-Era Japanese did it first.) ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2015, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-egypt-following-the-south-korean-model/715130/7 "2015-03-17T01:45:34Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > What is the model that east asian nations used to industrialize so quickly? Is there an actual formula? > > Authoritarian rule > > export based economy > > Business friendly legislation > > Investments in infrastructure and education > > I’d assume stuff like that came up, but is it consistent from nation to nation? This has been studied and written about to death, and the basic conclusion is always whatever happens to fit the economic philosophy of the author. The reality is that right now economies move too fast and are too unique for us to come to real rigorous conclusions. What works here may not work there, what works today may not work tomorrow, and what you think is working may not actually be the part that is important. ---
**Author:** ![MorphinePoet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morphinepoet/32/7315_2.png) [@MorphinePoet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MorphinePoet)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2015, 9:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-egypt-following-the-south-korean-model/715130/8 "2015-03-17T09:04:38Z")
No, Egypt is following the North Korean model. The economy is crushed under the weight of foreign and internal debt in scores of billions of dollars. Almost half of the country is illiterate; two thirds of Greater Cairo’s population are living in slums; there is no actual health care; medieval infrastructure; widespread corruption and many many other problems, the least of which isn’t poverty, injustice, persecution and authoritarian rule. Currently all the legislative power lies with Sisi, and there is no parliament. The economy is based on brainless and irresponsible import; Egypt is the biggest importer of wheat in the world; agriculture is deteriorating and so on and so forth. The main goal of this conference is to re-introduce Sisi to the world, and to inform the investors about the criminally-crafted laws to encourage investment with almost zero return on the citizens. All of these billions of dollars will not come near improving the infrastructure or the healthcare or education sectors, and the old capital is teetering on the brinks of total chaos. The new capital project is just another suburb for the rich and capable. The average impoverished and crushed citizen will see nothing of it. This is all: Oligarch economics. ---
**Author:** ![PlaceboTarget](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/placebotarget/32/1073_2.png) [@PlaceboTarget](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PlaceboTarget)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2015, 10:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-egypt-following-the-south-korean-model/715130/9 "2015-03-17T10:26:31Z")
Plus, the United States offered to buy the products South Korea manufactured following the civil war. That secured the capital for the country’s recovery and development. Egypt won’t enjoy that. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2015, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-egypt-following-the-south-korean-model/715130/10 "2015-03-17T16:24:57Z")
> [@MorphinePoet](#): > > The economy is based on brainless and irresponsible import; Egypt is the biggest importer of wheat in the world; agriculture is deteriorating and so on and so forth. And to think there was a time when Egyptian agriculture fed the Roman Empire! ---
**Author:** ![Ryan\_Liam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ryan_liam/32/3965_2.png) [@Ryan\_Liam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ryan_Liam)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2015, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-egypt-following-the-south-korean-model/715130/11 "2015-03-17T16:59:53Z")
But it’s incredibly short sighted, why not attempt genuine economic reform, don’t they realise it would probably lend more legitimacy for them in the long term? ---
**Author:** ![straight\_man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/straight_man/32/3027_2.png) [@straight\_man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/straight_man)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2015, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-egypt-following-the-south-korean-model/715130/12 "2015-03-18T01:46:08Z")
Whatever Egypt’s economic plan might be, relocating the capital seems like a fairly transparent ploy to avoid having another revolution by moving the capital away from where the population lives. If nobody is protesting next to government buildings, the government won’t fall. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2015, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-egypt-following-the-south-korean-model/715130/13 "2015-03-18T03:32:04Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > What is the model that east asian nations used to industrialize so quickly? Is there an actual formula? > > Authoritarian rule > export based economy > Business friendly legislation > Investments in infrastructure and education Building a new capital city and pursuing prestige infrastructure projects is better described as “The old corrupt third world model”, than the South Korean model. The Asian tiger model involves aiming for near 100% literacy, a weaker currency so as to stimulate exports and in Japan/South Korea a cliquish set of business conglomerates known as Zaibatsu in Japan and Chaebol in South Korea. The appropriateness of South Korea’s developmental model is grist for debate notwithstanding the country’s obvious success. But I fail to see any substantive similarities with what Egypt is doing. Nor do I see any evidence that Egypt’s authoritarians are imposing “Unpopular But Necessary Measures”. ---
**Author:** ![MorphinePoet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morphinepoet/32/7315_2.png) [@MorphinePoet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MorphinePoet)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2015, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-egypt-following-the-south-korean-model/715130/14 "2015-03-18T04:43:34Z")
> [@Ryan\_Liam](#): > > But it’s incredibly short sighted, why not attempt genuine economic reform, don’t they realise it would probably lend more legitimacy for them in the long term? Real economic reform takes time and is not flashy enough for the news. Plus, building a new city is the perfect way for any corrupt government and local administration to embezzle money. ---
**Author:** ![chappachula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d2c977/32.png) [@chappachula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chappachula)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2015, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-egypt-following-the-south-korean-model/715130/15 "2015-03-18T14:53:13Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > aiming for near 100% literacy This is true measure of a society. Decent education. and along with it, respect for the rule of law. Some cultures have it, and some don’t. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2015, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-egypt-following-the-south-korean-model/715130/16 "2015-03-18T15:04:18Z")
> [@chappachula](#): > > This is true measure of a society. Decent education. and along with it, respect for the rule of law. > > Some cultures have it, and some don’t. So does China have it, or not? In 1950, their literacy rate under 20%, and in the Cultural Revolution the education system was dismantled and school kids made mayhem in roving bands. Now, literacy over is 96%. Culture is remarkably malleable, and when education translates to opportunity, societies are able to transform from basically uneducated to having functional education systems in little more than a generation. But nobody is going to invest in education if they don’t see it leading to better earnings. ---
**Author:** ![Ryan\_Liam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ryan_liam/32/3965_2.png) [@Ryan\_Liam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ryan_Liam)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2015, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-egypt-following-the-south-korean-model/715130/17 "2015-03-18T20:44:11Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > Building a new capital city and pursuing prestige infrastructure projects is better described as “The old corrupt third world model”, than the South Korean model. The Asian tiger model involves aiming for near 100% literacy, a weaker currency so as to stimulate exports and in Japan/South Korea a cliquish set of business conglomerates known as Zaibatsu in Japan and Chaebol in South Korea. > > The appropriateness of South Korea’s developmental model is grist for debate notwithstanding the country’s obvious success. But I fail to see any substantive similarities with what Egypt is doing. Nor do I see any evidence that Egypt’s authoritarians are imposing “Unpopular But Necessary Measures”. That being said I did hear they took away the fuel subsidies and the bread subsidy has been reformed. Window dressing maybe, but this annoys me because Egypt population is projected to be around the 100 million mark by 2030, and they’ll all be poor and have a terrible standard of living, right on the doorstep of Europe. [http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/01/12/us-egypt-bread-idUSKBN0KL14520150112](http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/01/12/us-egypt-bread-idUSKBN0KL14520150112)