# Is eight hours too long to go without being offered a drink of water? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 14, 2018, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-eight-hours-too-long-to-go-without-being-offered-a-drink-of-water/826130 "2018-12-14T17:51:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2018, 12:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-eight-hours-too-long-to-go-without-being-offered-a-drink-of-water/826130/181 "2018-12-26T12:45:21Z")
It’s the [Jonathan Swift](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Modest_Proposal) gambit. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2018, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-eight-hours-too-long-to-go-without-being-offered-a-drink-of-water/826130/182 "2018-12-26T16:09:42Z")
> [@Dacien](#): > > What am I supposed to take from that other than he thinks “both sides say inaccurate things” is a bogus claim? > > If that’s not his message then I don’t know what the heck he’s talking about. Either he responded to the wrong post or he’s simply pretending I wrote something else. You’re unaware that the typical use of “both sides do it” is to give their side a pass on whatever “it” is? Seriously? ---
**Author:** ![K2500](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f6c823/32.png) [@K2500](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/K2500)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2018, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-eight-hours-too-long-to-go-without-being-offered-a-drink-of-water/826130/183 "2018-12-26T19:24:40Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > And ,… > > Another child died in custody today, on Christmas. > > [An 8-year-old Guatemalan child dies in U.S. custody on Christmas Eve after being treated for a cold](https://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-border-patrol-death-20181225-story.html) Dying in custody isn’t the same as dying becuase they’re in custody. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2018, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-eight-hours-too-long-to-go-without-being-offered-a-drink-of-water/826130/184 "2018-12-26T20:02:32Z")
From [CNN](https://www.cnn.com/2018/12/26/us/guatemalan-boy-dies-in-us-custody/index.html): > [@](#): > > “I’ve explained to Congress … that what we’re seeing with these flows, of huge numbers of families with lots of children, young children, as well as unaccompanied minors coming into Border Patrol custody after crossing the border unlawfully, that our stations are not built for that group that’s crossing today,” CBP Commissioner Kevin K. McAleenan told “CBS This Morning” on Wednesday. > > “They were built 30 to 40 years ago for single adult males, and we need a different approach. We need help from Congress. We need to budget for medical care and mental health care for children in our facilities.” > > :snip: > > “On behalf of US Customs and Border Protection, our deepest sympathies go out to the family,” McAleenan said Tuesday. > > He also announced a series of new procedures following the two children’s deaths: > > • First, Border Patrol is conducting secondary medical checks on all children in CBP care and custody, with a focus on children under age 10. > > • Second, Border Patrol is working with Immigration and Customs Enforcement on surge options for transportation to Family Residential Centers and supervised release, CBP said. The agency also is reviewing other custody options to relieve capacity issues in the El Paso, Texas, sector, such as working with nongovernmental organizations or local partners for temporary housing. > > • Third, CBP is considering options for medical assistance with other governmental partners, the agency said. That could include support from the Coast Guard as well as possibly more aid from the Defense Department, the Federal Emergency Management Agency, Health and Human Services, and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. > > • Finally, CBP is reviewing its policies, with a focus on the care and custody of children under 10 – both at intake and beyond 24 hours in custody, the agency said. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2018, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-eight-hours-too-long-to-go-without-being-offered-a-drink-of-water/826130/185 "2018-12-26T20:11:57Z")
Well, I can’t criticize that. Unless Trump has the ability to stop them. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2018, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-eight-hours-too-long-to-go-without-being-offered-a-drink-of-water/826130/186 "2018-12-26T20:21:45Z")
> [@K2500](#): > > Dying in custody isn’t the same as dying becuase they’re in custody. No, and we don’t really know enough about either case to know how much fault lies in our policies and with our border patrols. > [@kayaker](#): > > They = We. > > _We_ allowed this to happen. _We_ killed this little girl. But yeah. This is why I care. I don’t really care whether the father was partially at fault. What bothers me is that I am partially at fault in the death of this girl. And honestly, if she didn’t start vomiting or spike a fever under several hours after they turned themselves in, I think there is at least some fault on us. ☹ > [@UCBearcats](#): > > The child would not be dead if the father didn’t take her on this journey. It is 100% his fault. Quit trying to shift blame so this guy is a victim instead of the cause of his daughters death. You don’t know that. Why did they flee? Her life was probably in danger if they didn’t flee, too. Those single adult males that our border patrol is designed for are mostly here for economic reasons, but a lot of the people crossing now with kids are refugees, people who fear death if they don’t leave their homes. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2018, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-eight-hours-too-long-to-go-without-being-offered-a-drink-of-water/826130/187 "2018-12-26T20:26:30Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > No, and we don’t really know enough about either case to know how much fault lies in our policies and with our border patrols. > But yeah. This is why I care. I don’t really care whether the father was partially at fault. What bothers me is that I am partially at fault in the death of this girl. And honestly, if she didn’t start vomiting or spike a fever under several hours after they turned themselves in, I think there is at least some fault on us. ☹ > > You don’t know that. Why did they flee? Her life was probably in danger if they didn’t flee, too. Those single adult males that our border patrol is designed for are mostly here for economic reasons, but a lot of the people crossing now with kids are refugees, people who fear death if they don’t leave their homes. And with Trump at the helm, they can fear death for their families if they come here too. Not exactly the best way, nor a good way, or an acceptable way, or even a non-inhumane way of protecting our borders, but a way that Trump supporters can get behind. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2018, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-eight-hours-too-long-to-go-without-being-offered-a-drink-of-water/826130/188 "2018-12-26T21:38:31Z")
Any organization that houses/detains families will eventually have some deaths. The question is whether this organization is doing everything reasonable to prevent death, and I think there’s good reason to suspect that they’re not. ---
**Author:** ![Dacien](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dacien/32/5663_2.png) [@Dacien](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dacien)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2018, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-eight-hours-too-long-to-go-without-being-offered-a-drink-of-water/826130/189 "2018-12-26T22:54:32Z")
> [@Skywatcher](#): > > You’re unaware that the typical use of “both sides do it” is to give their side a pass on whatever “it” is? Seriously? I specifically call out the right in how they treated Obama and Khan in those quotes, and in no way gave any kind of pass. Many people on the right unfairly characterized what they said, and continue to do so to this day. Unfortunately, I do see people on the left do the same thing, and it’s bothersome. This is called being consistent. I’m not too terribly concerned here about the people who try to ameliorate fault on their own side by saying “both sides do it”, I’m concerned with what I actually wrote. ---
**Author:** ![Dacien](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dacien/32/5663_2.png) [@Dacien](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dacien)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2018, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-eight-hours-too-long-to-go-without-being-offered-a-drink-of-water/826130/190 "2018-12-26T23:26:10Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > And with Trump at the helm, they can fear death for their families if they come here too. Not exactly the best way, nor a good way, or an acceptable way, or even a non-inhumane way of protecting our borders, but a way that Trump supporters can get behind. I was playing a game a few weeks ago, and one of the mechanics of it reminded me a lot of how this logic goes. Bear with me. The game is called “Planet Coaster”, and it’s a theme park-building sim. Pretty fun, very well made, you should check it out. Anyway, when you build a rollercoaster in this game, you need to find a way back to the starting track, to complete the circuit. Often, you end up at a weird elevation after so many inversions and loops, and at a weird angle. But the game has a cool feature: “autocomplete”. When you click the autocomplete button, the track starts cycling through different pieces to try finish the track. You can see it in action. A snake slowly starts to form as it finds a piece that works to begin with, then starts branching off and cycling through different pieces again, slowly working it’s way towards completing the circuit. After a few seconds, it finally finds a way to complete the circuit, and it’s God-awful. The bends are too tight, the angles are all weird, and in general it just looks like crap. But it made the connection! It completed the circuit! This is what I imagine takes place inside the head of people who try to link the little girl’s death, and now this little boy’s death, to Trump. By all accounts they arrived in Border Patrol custody on death’s door, and every indication is that Trump or his supporters had nothing to do with it. So the autocomplete begins. Trump is tougher on immigration, so therefore illegal crossings are undertaken with greater risk, and the Border Patrol probably didn’t do enough, and this is what Trump wants anyway, so it’s Trump’s fault! The argument looks like complete crap; the mental gymnastics are wonky, and the leaps of logic don’t fit right. But the connection has been made, and that’s the important thing. Which is disheartening, it really is. Because it feels like they’re so eager to slam Trump they’re willing to beclown themselves with this transparent politicization. As I said earlier, if there was some malfeasance by CBP or any kind of neglect, we need to find out where and who and rectify it, and I think a preliminary step to take right now would be to prepare Border Patrol agents with water and training to identify health concerns with individuals crossing the border, if they don’t already. But this desperation to try and complete the logic circuit to somehow blame Trump is just awful. ---
**Author:** ![Dacien](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dacien/32/5663_2.png) [@Dacien](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dacien)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2018, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-eight-hours-too-long-to-go-without-being-offered-a-drink-of-water/826130/191 "2018-12-26T23:45:06Z")
It’s not a new thing either. People were excoriating Trump for tear gas use at the border, and then DHS data came out showing Obama did the same thing. These events are plainly capitalized on as a way to criticize Trump, because the only variable is Trump. There was no outrage when Thing X happened under Obama, but immense outrage when Thing X happens under Trump. This seems to indicate that the outrage is about Trump, not Thing X at all. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2018, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-eight-hours-too-long-to-go-without-being-offered-a-drink-of-water/826130/192 "2018-12-26T23:53:14Z")
> [@Dacien](#): > > It’s not a new thing either. People were excoriating Trump for tear gas use at the border, and then DHS data came out showing Obama did the same thing. These events are plainly capitalized on as a way to criticize Trump, because the only variable is Trump. There was no outrage when Thing X happened under Obama, but immense outrage when Thing X happens under Trump. This seems to indicate that the outrage is about Trump, not Thing X at all. There are significant differences both in policy and rhetoric. The Trump administration has stated that families were separated in order to deter future migrants. Trump has used dehumanizing rhetoric to describe immigrants on multiple occasions. There was no such purposeful family separation in order to deter migration in any other administration that I’m aware of, and no such dehumanizing rhetoric in the Obama administration. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2018, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-eight-hours-too-long-to-go-without-being-offered-a-drink-of-water/826130/193 "2018-12-27T01:33:11Z")
Dacien, “The buck stops here.” ---
**Author:** ![Dacien](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dacien/32/5663_2.png) [@Dacien](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dacien)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2018, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-eight-hours-too-long-to-go-without-being-offered-a-drink-of-water/826130/194 "2018-12-27T01:41:50Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > Dacien, “The buck stops here.” Which is why I’m now reading that the Border Patrol has overhauled it’s medical assessment of minors. They’re ending up in our custody, so we’re taking steps to keep it from happening again. Good. It’s still laughable that Trump is responsible for these little ones dying. Platitudes are useful in abstract discussion, but fall short in detailing matters of fact. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2018, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-eight-hours-too-long-to-go-without-being-offered-a-drink-of-water/826130/195 "2018-12-27T02:11:55Z")
> [@Dacien](#): > > Which is why I’m now reading that the Border Patrol has overhauled it’s medical assessment of minors. They’re ending up in our custody, so we’re taking steps to keep it from happening again. Good. > > It’s still laughable that Trump is responsible for these little ones dying. Platitudes are useful in abstract discussion, but fall short in detailing matters of fact. Was he not responsible for ordering that asylum seekers not be permitted to cross via border stations? ---
**Author:** ![Dacien](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dacien/32/5663_2.png) [@Dacien](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dacien)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2018, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-eight-hours-too-long-to-go-without-being-offered-a-drink-of-water/826130/196 "2018-12-27T02:33:21Z")
So this is a complicated issue, right? It’s no secret that our asylum backlog is immense, and this policy shift from Trump came at the height of the caravan hysteria, and the worry was that this large group of people was going to overwhelm a border crossing ill-equipped to handle such a large number of people. At least, that was the line. I think part of it was Trump playing to his base. So there were a lot of moving parts involved in that decision. But the bottom line was a very sick child was gathered up by Border Patrol, and hours later she died. Undoubtedly, if they had never been found, she would have certainly died never having been in Border Patrol custody. The boy who died was even more attended to, according to DHS. The child was reportedly sick when taken into custody but was well taken care of. As soon as his health took a turn for the worse, he was immediately taken to a hospital. Again, DHS’ account. So I don’t think it’s accurate at all to say that Trump is to blame for their deaths. While I’m hesitant to even blame CBP, I need to know, in the girl’s case, if there was neglect, improper procedure being followed, or carelessness involved that could have saved her life. ---
**Author:** ![Dacien](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dacien/32/5663_2.png) [@Dacien](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dacien)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2018, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-eight-hours-too-long-to-go-without-being-offered-a-drink-of-water/826130/197 "2018-12-27T04:55:59Z")
I mean to say, “…could have prevented her life from being saved” in that last line there. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2018, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-eight-hours-too-long-to-go-without-being-offered-a-drink-of-water/826130/198 "2018-12-27T15:30:25Z")
> [@UCBearcats](#): > > Pretty strong language. I’d say it’s appropriate and well deserved, you fucking self righteous pearl clutching fascist hypocrites. Complaining about “politeness” while children die - to feed the ego of a raging psychopath. Fuck you guys. All you Bible thumping bastards also better READ that damn book you keep flaunting. It says plenty about those who harm children. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2018, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-eight-hours-too-long-to-go-without-being-offered-a-drink-of-water/826130/199 "2018-12-27T15:32:57Z")
> [@Skywatcher](#): > > You’re unaware that the typical use of “both sides do it” is to give their side a pass on whatever “it” is? Seriously? He knows. But that ploy has worked for so long … ---
**Author:** ![The\_Librarian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_librarian/32/402_2.png) [@The\_Librarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Librarian)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2018, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-eight-hours-too-long-to-go-without-being-offered-a-drink-of-water/826130/200 "2018-12-27T22:10:13Z")
This thread really brings out the special posters. I hope you are never depending on the humanity of others for your survival. But if you do, I hope you will find a like minded spirit. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-eight-hours-too-long-to-go-without-being-offered-a-drink-of-water/826130.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-eight-hours-too-long-to-go-without-being-offered-a-drink-of-water/826130.md?page=11)