# Is eight hours too long to go without being offered a drink of water? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 14, 2018, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-eight-hours-too-long-to-go-without-being-offered-a-drink-of-water/826130 "2018-12-14T17:51:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Dacien](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dacien/32/5663_2.png) [@Dacien](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dacien)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2018, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-eight-hours-too-long-to-go-without-being-offered-a-drink-of-water/826130/81 "2018-12-16T00:27:52Z")
To expand on my first paragraph, here’s another exchange I see often. “Hitler killed 50 million Jews.” “That’s not accurate.” “Hitler drank the blood of virgins.” “We really don’t have evidence of that.” “Hitler was involved in child sacrifices to Beelzebub.” “…No, that hasn’t shown to be true at all.” “Boy, you just waste no time defending Hitler, time and time again!” ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2018, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-eight-hours-too-long-to-go-without-being-offered-a-drink-of-water/826130/82 "2018-12-16T01:09:16Z")
> [@MarvinKitFox](#): > > I have a great idea… How about we review the FACTS in this case, and not freak out before doing so? > > The family surrendered to U.S. Border Patrol > During initial screening, the father handled all talking. > He signed a form with his daughter’s info, acting as guarding/parent. Information of the information given on the form was thing like name, age, _any any current medical issues_/state of health. This form indicated the daughter was healthy. > She was not checked by any doctor or medic at the initial detention point, that was to be done at the detention center the next day. > The family was NOT given food or drink, but they WERE given access to bathroom facilities, including a functional water tap. > . > The morning after their detention, while they were being bussed to the detention center, the daughter started vomiting. When the medic checked her out, she appeared dehydrated and had a very high fever (105.7). While being examined she started having seizures. > She was airlifted to a hospital, where she died about 24 hours later of septic shock. > When she was taken to hospital, she was separated from her family. (why? unknown) > The announcement of her illness and death was delayed until the family were notified, which took a week (again, unknown why so long. Did someone misplace files??) > . > False allegations posted previously in this thread: > " Is eight hours too long to go without being offered a drink of water? " is bullshit. They had access to good water. > “If the girl’s chance of survival at that point is 1 in a thousand, you take her to the fucking hospital.”… they DID take her to fucking hospital. > " To what extent she was in visible distress, or whether her parent was asked about her health, or if her parent knew she was ill, or if she was given water or food, we simply do not know."… nope. we DO know. The father stated that she was in good health, and signed the form attesting that. If she was obviously ill, the father is at fault. If she was not obviously ill, to the extent that her _father_ did not notice anything, then no quick check by a border agent would have detected it. A full medical examination _would_ have detected the problem, but they did not have the facilities there. U.S. border authorities DID have the facilities to check them out thoroughly, and that is precisely where they were being bussed to, when the medical emergency occurred. > . > This death is sad, tragic and regrettable. > But to point fingers and froth at the mouth while making _false_ allegations about it, will not help us to prevent this from happening again. …its important to note that you didn’t provide a cite for your “facts.” Over the last two years the Trump administration have been disseminating propaganda at a rate that would put Baghdad Bob to shame. So when you claim that "they had access to “bathroom facilities, including a functional water tap” and that they “had access to good water.”, then I read a thread like this on [twitter](https://twitter.com/aurabogado/status/1073566177027186689) from the reporter who broke several stories about [this particular subject](https://www.revealnews.org/author/aura-bogado/page/2/), that shows a picture of what these bathroom facilities look like, that the water is typically “grey and it’s disgusting” and “It routinely makes people sick” and that there isn’t even “a place to dry your hands after you wash them”, I’m going to believe the [reporter](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Center_for_Investigative_Reporting)over the propaganda. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2018, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-eight-hours-too-long-to-go-without-being-offered-a-drink-of-water/826130/83 "2018-12-16T01:13:15Z")
> [@MarvinKitFox](#): > > He signed a form with his daughter’s info, acting as guarding/parent. Information of the information given on the form was thing like name, age, _any any current medical issues_/state of health. This form indicated the daughter was healthy. Two questions: 1. What language does the father speak? 2. What language was the form in? Answers: 1. A variant of Quechua. 2. Not fucking Quechua. If the Border Patrol tries to immunize itself against claims of negligence by pressuring immigrants to sign forms in languages they can’t read, that’s fucking negligence. ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2018, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-eight-hours-too-long-to-go-without-being-offered-a-drink-of-water/826130/84 "2018-12-16T01:15:10Z")
> [@Dacien](#): > > The argument seems to be that enforcing our border more strongly means more people will die, because those people will take more risks to avoid capture, and those deaths are our fault. This is sort of like arguing that putting up barb wire fence around my property means I’m to blame for more injuries from people trying to climb over the fence, and those injuries are my fault. > > It’s think it’s a dumb argument. If hundreds of people are getting entangled and dying in your barbed wire every year, you wouldn’t take a step back from the situation and ponder whether or not the barbed wire was the best way to accomplish your goals? ---
**Author:** ![UCBearcats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/77aa72/32.png) [@UCBearcats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UCBearcats)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2018, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-eight-hours-too-long-to-go-without-being-offered-a-drink-of-water/826130/85 "2018-12-16T03:53:08Z")
> [@steronz](#): > > If hundreds of people are getting entangled and dying in your barbed wire every year, you wouldn’t take a step back from the situation and ponder whether or not the barbed wire was the best way to accomplish your goals? After a bit, the criminals should stop trying to get past the barbed wire. He should not have to take down something that is working to protect his property. ---
**Author:** ![MarvinKitFox](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ba0ec/32.png) [@MarvinKitFox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MarvinKitFox)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2018, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-eight-hours-too-long-to-go-without-being-offered-a-drink-of-water/826130/86 "2018-12-16T05:26:34Z")
> [@steronz](#): > > If hundreds of people are getting entangled and dying in your barbed wire every year, you wouldn’t take a step back from the situation and ponder whether or not the barbed wire was the best way to accomplish your goals? Considering that each and every one of those was trying to cross the barbed wire, and the wire was put there for the _explicit_ purpose of preventing them from crossing it, and that the barbed wire is a very visible barrier that has is universally known will inflict damage when you cross it? I’d send a letter to the manufacturer congratulating them on their excellent product serving its purpose very well indeed. Fix the problem, that hundreds of people are trying to break through your fence. Don’t blame the fence. Blame the primary cause that is “forcing” them to cross it. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2018, 9:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-eight-hours-too-long-to-go-without-being-offered-a-drink-of-water/826130/87 "2018-12-16T09:48:47Z")
> [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > If she was in as bad shape as you say, then why did the Immigration agents wait 8 hours to do anything? When coming across someone who hasn’t had food or water for days your response should be to get them food, water and medical attention ASAP, not “Well, they’ve been without food and water for a couple of days so what’s eight more hours?” It _sounds_ like the same old attitude that the ignorant and careless have toward the care of “mere animals.” Like leaving a dog outside to freeze, or assuming that black patients have a higher pain tolerance. ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2018, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-eight-hours-too-long-to-go-without-being-offered-a-drink-of-water/826130/88 "2018-12-16T12:49:21Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Two questions: > > 1. What language does the father speak? > 2. What language was the form in? > > Answers: > > 1. A variant of Quechua. > 2. Not fucking Quechua. > > If the Border Patrol tries to immunize itself against claims of negligence by pressuring immigrants to sign forms in languages they can’t read, that’s fucking negligence. Nitpick: Not Quechua. (Quiche Maya, perhaps). ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2018, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-eight-hours-too-long-to-go-without-being-offered-a-drink-of-water/826130/89 "2018-12-16T13:19:15Z")
> [@JKellyMap](#): > > Nitpick: Not Quechua. (Quiche Maya, perhaps). You’re right, it’s [Q’eqchi’](https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/hours-before-her-collapse-in-us-custody-a-dying-migrant-childs-condition-went-unnoticed/2018/12/14/1c454d18-ffb8-11e8-862a-b6a6f3ce8199_story.html?utm_term=.ba43589d7495). My apologies. [Her father disputes the Border Patrol’s account.](https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2018/12/15/year-old-girl-who-died-border-patrol-custody-was-healthy-before-she-arrived-father-says/?utm_term=.d7b864304115) > [@](#): > > In a letter to Rep. Kevin Yoder (R-Kan.) late Friday, McAleenan said the child’s father said she “drank water and ate the food offered” while in custody and “was not demonstrating any signs of distress” before her father later notified agents that Jakelin was ill. If that’s true, that changes things. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2018, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-eight-hours-too-long-to-go-without-being-offered-a-drink-of-water/826130/90 "2018-12-16T13:25:11Z")
Note that CNN, hardly a Fox News type GOP state media outlet, is the agency reporting the child was treated as quickly as she could be. Sometimes terrible things happen and it’s not Donald Trump’s fault. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2018, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-eight-hours-too-long-to-go-without-being-offered-a-drink-of-water/826130/91 "2018-12-16T13:40:23Z")
> [@steronz](#): > > But we know nothing. For all we know they did help, did get her water and food, were concerned, but didn’t realize how dire the situation was until she had a seizure. > > Given how little we know about what happened during those 8 hours, whether or not she “looked thirsty” isn’t exactly a useful question. Being a long time Burner (and living in Arizona) I am quite familiar with the symptoms of dehydration. With all the excitement and distractions, despite being told to carry water at all times quite often people at the event will get dehydrated. Now, this is a far cry from days with no water at all but even then a couple dozen people per day are taken to the on-playa clinic to get an IV liter of saline. I am a volunteer of the mediation, health, and safety [team](https://rangers.burningman.org/what-do-rangers-do/) at That Thing in the Desert and when I’m on shift I carry two liters of water and two 325-ml boxes of coconut water (In case someone hydrated too enthusiastically and flushed out their potassium) in case of emergencies. > [@UCBearcats](#): > > The child would not be dead if the father didn’t take her on this journey. It is 100% his fault. Quit trying to shift blame so this guy is a victim instead of the cause of his daughters death. Which, of course, warrants a summary death penalty for your loved ones – no trial necessary. Is it too much to expect that authority figures with arrest powers in hot areas are trained in recognizing symptoms of dehydration, how to offer first aid for it, and refer for immediate medical attention for those cases that warrant it? In Trumpland apparently it is. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2018, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-eight-hours-too-long-to-go-without-being-offered-a-drink-of-water/826130/92 "2018-12-16T14:09:57Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Note that CNN, hardly a Fox News type GOP state media outlet, is the agency reporting the child was treated as quickly as she could be. Sometimes terrible things happen and it’s not Donald Trump’s fault. …CNN is perfectly capable of regurgitating propaganda from the administration. And “treated as quickly as she could be” is a relative thing. Its a talking point. ---
**Author:** ![AlienVessels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ba8739/32.png) [@AlienVessels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlienVessels)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2018, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-eight-hours-too-long-to-go-without-being-offered-a-drink-of-water/826130/93 "2018-12-16T17:19:16Z")
> [@UCBearcats](#): > > After a bit, the criminals should stop trying to get past the barbed wire. He should not have to take down something that is working to protect his property. > **[Mantrap (snare)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mantrap_(snare))** > > A mantrap is a mechanical physical security device for catching poachers and trespassers.\[unreliable source?\] They have taken many forms, the most usual being like a large foothold trap, the steel springs being armed with teeth which meet in the victim's leg. In 1827 they were made illegal in England, except in houses between sunset and sunrise as a defence against burglars. > Other traps such as special snares, trap netting, trapping pits, fluidizing solid matter traps and cage traps could be use... ---
**Author:** ![Huey\_Freeman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/huey_freeman/32/251_2.png) [@Huey\_Freeman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huey_Freeman)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2018, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-eight-hours-too-long-to-go-without-being-offered-a-drink-of-water/826130/94 "2018-12-16T19:15:42Z")
> [@UCBearcats](#): > > The child would not be dead if the father didn’t take her on this journey. It is 100% his fault. Quit trying to shift blame so this guy is a victim instead of the cause of his daughters death. Autism speaks. ---
**Author:** ![Paranoid\_Randroid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/paranoid_randroid/32/18_2.png) [@Paranoid\_Randroid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paranoid_Randroid)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2018, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-eight-hours-too-long-to-go-without-being-offered-a-drink-of-water/826130/95 "2018-12-16T20:01:47Z")
> [@Huey\_Freeman](#): > > Autism speaks. I’m sure folks with autism spectrum disorders love it when their identity is employed pejoratively. ---
**Author:** ![Huey\_Freeman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/huey_freeman/32/251_2.png) [@Huey\_Freeman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huey_Freeman)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2018, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-eight-hours-too-long-to-go-without-being-offered-a-drink-of-water/826130/96 "2018-12-16T20:15:49Z")
> [@Paranoid\_Randroid](#): > > I’m sure folks with autism spectrum disorders love it when their identity is employed pejoratively. Perhaps. In my view, the statement highlights the profound lack of cognitive empathy that many white supremacists have. I used to think it was cultural, but now I think it’s inborn. There’s no empathy, no compassion, no ability to understand the suffering or perspective of others. No understanding of the history of United States meddling in the affairs of many of these countries. These idiots don’t even get it. I’m sick and tired of being expected to show compassion to unempathetic people who act cold and heartless to others. Fuck him. And if you think it’s OK to blame refugees who are fleeing violence, then fuck you too. ---
**Author:** ![UCBearcats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/77aa72/32.png) [@UCBearcats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UCBearcats)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2018, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-eight-hours-too-long-to-go-without-being-offered-a-drink-of-water/826130/97 "2018-12-16T20:43:08Z")
> [@Huey\_Freeman](#): > > Perhaps. In my view, the statement highlights the profound lack of cognitive empathy that many white supremacists have. I used to think it was cultural, but now I think it’s inborn. There’s no empathy, no compassion, no ability to understand the suffering or perspective of others. No understanding of the history of United States meddling in the affairs of many of these countries. These idiots don’t even get it. I’m sick and tired of being expected to show compassion to unempathetic people who act cold and heartless to others. Fuck him. And if you think it’s OK to blame refugees who are fleeing violence, then fuck you too. Fuck you and the rest of the bleeding heart liberals who want to embrace every fucking person on the the planet. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2018, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-eight-hours-too-long-to-go-without-being-offered-a-drink-of-water/826130/98 "2018-12-16T20:46:48Z")
> [@UCBearcats](#): > > Fuck you and the rest of the bleeding heart liberals who want to embrace every fucking person on the the planet. _Someone_ needs a hug. Hope that [del]helps[/del] drives you bug-fuck apeshit. ---
**Author:** ![UCBearcats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/77aa72/32.png) [@UCBearcats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UCBearcats)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2018, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-eight-hours-too-long-to-go-without-being-offered-a-drink-of-water/826130/99 "2018-12-16T20:53:56Z")
Hugs are good. ---
**Author:** ![UCBearcats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/77aa72/32.png) [@UCBearcats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UCBearcats)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2018, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-eight-hours-too-long-to-go-without-being-offered-a-drink-of-water/826130/100 "2018-12-16T20:56:49Z")
> [@AlienVessels](#): > > [Mantrap (snare) - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mantrap_(snare)) Barbed wire isn’t the same as a bear trap [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-eight-hours-too-long-to-go-without-being-offered-a-drink-of-water/826130.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-eight-hours-too-long-to-go-without-being-offered-a-drink-of-water/826130.md?page=6)