# Is eight hours too long to go without being offered a drink of water? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 14, 2018, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-eight-hours-too-long-to-go-without-being-offered-a-drink-of-water/826130 "2018-12-14T17:51:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2018, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-eight-hours-too-long-to-go-without-being-offered-a-drink-of-water/826130/141 "2018-12-17T19:31:31Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Regardless, if borders were open and barriers to travel were removed there’d be vast migrations compared to today. How’d you propose countries handle that? Why is it that racist right-wing xenophobes such as yourself always dredge up this ridiculous straw man of “open borders” that no one has advocated, ever? And why do you continue to do it when you’ve been set straight on the matter, as I did in post #106? I know you read it because you responded (#114) with some fatuous drivel about Canada needing to admit 100 million migrants or something in order to match the awesome US immigration policy. In case you weren’t aware, it’s not “land area” that determines capacity for immigration – not the amount of Arctic wilderness, or the number of square miles of boreal forest, or even the amount of developed land. It’s the amount of infrastructure available for resettlement, for transportation and sustenance, and the capacity of the economy to absorb them, support them, and productively employ them – and all of those things are directly proportional to population. Yet the US, despite having ten times the population of Canada, often has woefully lesser immigration numbers, sometimes even in absolute terms. For instance, in the matter of Syrian refugees, Canada made major commitments to acceptance quotas and financial support, and the government received a lot of public support through the Private Sponsorship of Refugees Program. Between November 2015 and January 2017 Canada had accepted 40,081 Syrian refugees. The US, by contrast – a country with ten times the population and infrastructure – accepted just 16,000 in a similar period, and that was under Obama. Once Trump was in power, there were major efforts to reduce that to zero; just over 3000 were admitted in 2017, and just 11 in the first quarter of 2018. > **[Refugees of the Syrian civil war | In North America](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Refugees_of_the_Syrian_Civil_War#In_North_America)** > > In July 2013, Canada promised to resettle 1,300 refugees by 2015 and pledged $100 million in humanitarian aid.\[citation needed\] "1,063 Syrian refugees are already here in Canada. The rest will travel in the coming weeks" (Kevin Menard, spokesman for Immigration Minister Chris Alexander). and the government agreed to resettle 11,300 refugees by the end of 2017, and then 10,000 by September 2016.\[citation needed\] Before the 2015 federal election, the Liberal Party of Canada promised to bring 2 > [@Shodan](#): > > That doesn’t really follow, if your point is that the illegal entrants into the US really wanted to go to Canada in the first place. No, my point is just to cite the relevant numbers. But it’s ridiculous to claim that all migrants always want to come to the US. Obviously some wanted to come to Canada (see above), and for many, socioeconomic factors like health care make that a better choice. ---
**Author:** ![EarlGrayHot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e480ec/32.png) [@EarlGrayHot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EarlGrayHot)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2018, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-eight-hours-too-long-to-go-without-being-offered-a-drink-of-water/826130/142 "2018-12-17T19:35:02Z")
We are told she was offered water and food and that she was sent to a hospital within 90 minutes of her father telling authorities she was ill and vomiting. We are also told he father claimed she had been given food and water on the journey. ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2018, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-eight-hours-too-long-to-go-without-being-offered-a-drink-of-water/826130/143 "2018-12-17T19:37:11Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > No, I mean the hassle of your proposed process–let in as many tens of millions as want to come as long as they meet specific preconditions before eventually being granted citizenship. That’s what the 163 were doing? Skipping the hassle of my hypothetical process? I don’t follow. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2018, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-eight-hours-too-long-to-go-without-being-offered-a-drink-of-water/826130/144 "2018-12-17T20:04:48Z")
> [@steronz](#): > > That’s what the 163 were doing? Skipping the hassle of my hypothetical process? I don’t follow. What I am saying is that I don’t believe for one millisecond having a massive but bureaucratic system for being allowed the possibility of future citizenship would stop people trying to sneak in illegally by life-threatening routes like tgese 163 did. So there would still be people dying on those routes. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2018, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-eight-hours-too-long-to-go-without-being-offered-a-drink-of-water/826130/145 "2018-12-17T20:17:02Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > Why is it that racist right-wing xenophobes such as yourself always dredge up this ridiculous straw man of “open borders” that no one has advocated, ever? And why do you continue to do it when you’ve been set straight on the matter, as I did in post #106? > > I know you read it because you responded (#114) with some fatuous drivel about Canada needing to admit 100 million migrants or something in order to match the awesome US immigration policy. In case you weren’t aware, it’s not “land area” that determines capacity for immigration – not the amount of Arctic wilderness, or the number of square miles of boreal forest, or even the amount of developed land. It’s the amount of infrastructure available for resettlement, for transportation and sustenance, and the capacity of the economy to absorb them, support them, and productively employ them – and all of those things are directly proportional to population. > > Yet the US, despite having ten times the population of Canada, often has woefully lesser immigration numbers, sometimes even in absolute terms. For instance, in the matter of Syrian refugees, Canada made major commitments to acceptance quotas and financial support, and the government received a lot of public support through the Private Sponsorship of Refugees Program. Between November 2015 and January 2017 Canada had accepted 40,081 Syrian refugees. The US, by contrast – a country with ten times the population and infrastructure – accepted just 16,000 in a similar period, and that was under Obama. Once Trump was in power, there were major efforts to reduce that to zero; just over 3000 were admitted in 2017, and just 11 in the first quarter of 2018. > [Refugees of the Syrian civil war - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Refugees_of_the_Syrian_Civil_War#In_North_America) > > No, my point is just to cite the relevant numbers. But it’s ridiculous to claim that all migrants always want to come to the US. Obviously some wanted to come to Canada (see above), and for many, socioeconomic factors like health care make that a better choice. Oh noes!11! Dat’s racist!1! rears its head.:rolleyes: We have more legal immigrants in the US than Canada has people so stop with the dishonest virtue signaling. It would be nice to see Canadians doing rather than talking. Not just with immigration load but with defense as well. Why the US lets our protectorates be so lippy is a puzzle. And you disingenuously deny that it is de facto open borders your position would result in. But not enforcing borders and not putting up any barriers or quotas to immigration is in fact open borders in everything but name, ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2018, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-eight-hours-too-long-to-go-without-being-offered-a-drink-of-water/826130/146 "2018-12-17T21:11:23Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Oh noes!11! Dat’s racist!1! rears its head.:rolleyes: > > We have more legal immigrants in the US than Canada has people so stop with the dishonest virtue signaling. It would be nice to see Canadians doing rather than talking. Not just with immigration load but with defense as well. Why the US lets our protectorates be so lippy is a puzzle. > > And you disingenuously deny that it is de facto open borders your position would result in. But not enforcing borders and not putting up any barriers or quotas to immigration is in fact open borders in everything but name, I’m fascinated to learn that I’m apparently in favor of “not enforcing borders” and “not putting up any barriers or quotas to immigration”. Being the totally honest and forthright individual that you are, you will of course have no difficulty citing the specific post and the exact words where I said that. Because otherwise one would have to conclude that you’re either a lying troll or a fucking moron, but most likely both. You know, there were times I thought the various pittings directed at you here were maybe a bit too harsh, but I see now that your reputation on this board as a hypocritical lying troll is well deserved. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2018, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-eight-hours-too-long-to-go-without-being-offered-a-drink-of-water/826130/147 "2018-12-17T21:21:53Z")
“racist right wing xenophobe” is not a good way to address someone before you make demands. But anyways, if you aren’t in favor of open borders why is it that the US’s border enforcement is bothering you? Any form of real enforcement is going to result in people taking risks to evade it. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2018, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-eight-hours-too-long-to-go-without-being-offered-a-drink-of-water/826130/148 "2018-12-17T22:32:17Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > “racist right wing xenophobe” is not a good way to address someone before you make demands. This isn’t a “how to make friends” workshop. I calls 'em as I sees 'em. I didn’t make any “demands”. If you don’t want to be called a racist troll, don’t try to defend Trump’s hateful racist immigration policies. > [@octopus](#): > > But anyways, if you aren’t in favor of open borders why is it that the US’s border enforcement is bothering you? Any form of real enforcement is going to result in people taking risks to evade it. That’s it? _ **That’s** _ your evidence that I’m for open borders? Do you see why this sort of thing categorizes you as either a troll or a moron? The Trump goons have introduced the most cruel and inhumane immigration practices in living memory, fueled by hateful racism. Trump is responsible not just for specific racist immigration policies, but for empowering racist attitudes, like the case I mentioned where a young woman of Indian heritage, a Canadian-born citizen bearing a Canadian passport, was banned from the US because she sort of looked Muslim. The new attitudes are comparable to when US Immigration turned away the MS St. Louis and sent it back to Nazi Germany in 1939 with more than 900 hopeful Jewish refugees on board, who were refused entry and not allowed to disembark because, like, they were Jews. Are you really too stupid to see this? To see that it’s been intentionally arranged so that it’s virtually impossible for the Central American migrants to claim legitimate refugee status at major ports of entry, and military force is being used to keep them out at all other points. To see that children are being traumatized by being separated from their parents. To see that detentions are often long miserable ordeals with low probability of actually getting asylum. Those who have illegally crossed into Canada actually _ **want** _ to get arrested, because they know that detentions are generally short [and getting shorter](https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/cbsa-border-agency-immigration-detention-1.4752278), and everyone with a credible refugee claim will have his claim processed and reviewed, and will be treated humanely. Is that really too much to ask? Not to mention that no one has yet died in the process. Treating human beings humanely has absolutely nothing to do with border security, immigration quotas, or the vetting of asylum claimants. Its absence does have a lot to do with Trump-fueled hate and racism. ---
**Author:** ![fedman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/278dde/32.png) [@fedman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fedman)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2018, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-eight-hours-too-long-to-go-without-being-offered-a-drink-of-water/826130/149 "2018-12-17T23:38:41Z")
if you’re going to endanger your child by going days without food or water, the death is on you ---
**Author:** ![fedman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/278dde/32.png) [@fedman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fedman)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2018, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-eight-hours-too-long-to-go-without-being-offered-a-drink-of-water/826130/150 "2018-12-17T23:42:16Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > In this particular case, it looks like a nearly dead child finished dying, and probably would have died no matter who picked them up. I’m no fan of Trump or his goons, but if you drag a child through the desert for several days with no food or water expecting a last-second miracle recovery, that death is on you. right–the onus is on irresponsible parents ---
**Author:** ![Dacien](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dacien/32/5663_2.png) [@Dacien](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dacien)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2018, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-eight-hours-too-long-to-go-without-being-offered-a-drink-of-water/826130/151 "2018-12-18T00:42:53Z")
The disturbing reasoning to me is that increased border security and enforcing our immigration laws more strictly is an unethical act, because it leads to more desperate measures by people crossing the border illegally, and therefore death. Imagine this rationale applied to other laws. You have security cameras around your house, so burglars take more dangerous measures and climb on the roof, fall, and perish. The argument would be that their death is a direct result of your stricter home security, and their blood is on your hands. A child died, and we should absolutely not lose sight of that fact, but the politicization of this little girl’s death has been just ghastly. By all means, if the Border Patrol agents acted callously and with malice, or neglect, we need to get to the bottom of it. But since there is an absolute absence of that information right now, people instead are opting to simply blame the administration using the pants-on-head rationale I explained above. And because it’s so absurd, one could argue persuasively that people making these arguments are standing on the grave of this little girl to take a swipe at Trump. Assuming information comes out that vindicates these people, it makes no difference. Guessing at what happened and then being outraged by it isn’t justified just because, in the end, you guessed correctly. ---
**Author:** ![Dacien](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dacien/32/5663_2.png) [@Dacien](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dacien)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2018, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-eight-hours-too-long-to-go-without-being-offered-a-drink-of-water/826130/152 "2018-12-18T00:57:04Z")
Also, if your solution to improving your life is to break United States immigration law, you’re doing it wrong. Your making a bad decision. If you are fleeing violence and persecution, there’s a little more leeway here, but you still need to follow the process. Breaking the law is never the solution. Once you’re at the border, you may need to be patient with our asylum backlog, but your plight will be addressed. Why these people fleeing South American countries for asylum _must_ do it in the US instead of the country they’re passing through, Mexico, is anyone’s guess. But it’s a good rule in life in general. If your solution to your problem is to break the law, you’re making a mistake. It can cost you your life. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2018, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-eight-hours-too-long-to-go-without-being-offered-a-drink-of-water/826130/153 "2018-12-18T01:57:53Z")
Holy shit you’re about as dumb as a fuckin post. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2018, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-eight-hours-too-long-to-go-without-being-offered-a-drink-of-water/826130/154 "2018-12-18T02:41:51Z")
> [@UCBearcats](#): > > Never said the father intentionally harmed his daughter. Assclown. You said the father [purposely](https://www.thesaurus.com/browse/purposely) harmed his daughter. What is the very first synonym for “purposely”? ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2018, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-eight-hours-too-long-to-go-without-being-offered-a-drink-of-water/826130/155 "2018-12-18T02:50:28Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > What I am saying is that I don’t believe for one millisecond having a massive but bureaucratic system for being allowed the possibility of future citizenship would stop people trying to sneak in illegally by life-threatening routes like tgese 163 did. So there would still be people dying on those routes. I don’t see how you don’t believe that. It seems self evident to me that people wouldn’t do a dangerous thing if there was a safe way to do it that was both legal and encouraged. ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2018, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-eight-hours-too-long-to-go-without-being-offered-a-drink-of-water/826130/156 "2018-12-18T02:58:23Z")
> [@Dacien](#): > > The disturbing reasoning to me is that increased border security and enforcing our immigration laws more strictly is an unethical act, because it leads to more desperate measures by people crossing the border illegally, and therefore death. Well, it disturbs me that anyone wouldn’t be bothered if their policies, however well meaning, directly or indirectly resulted in people dying. I really like to think that people are better than that. You know how people jump in front of trains? And it’s pretty much not in any way the train operator’s fault? And train operators still often suffer PTSD because they feel so guilty about indirectly causing someone’s death? That’s called being a decent empathetic human being, and it’s normal, and those folks are _literally_ blameless. I really don’t understand how anyone can be so callous as to say, “Well rules is rules, they shouldn’t have tried crossing the desert” when we’re talking about dead 7 year old kids. It’s fucking sick. ---
**Author:** ![excavating\_for\_a\_mind](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e8c25b/32.png) [@excavating\_for\_a\_mind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/excavating_for_a_mind)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2018, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-eight-hours-too-long-to-go-without-being-offered-a-drink-of-water/826130/157 "2018-12-18T03:31:26Z")
What’s fucking sick, to use your analogy, is to blame the train operator for the death of the person who jumped in front of the train. If you look at the OP, and first few pages, there is a lot or recreational outrage aimed at the border patrol. As the facts emerged, it appears the BP did everything right. The poor 7 year-old who died was put in harms way, not by the BP, but by her father. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2018, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-eight-hours-too-long-to-go-without-being-offered-a-drink-of-water/826130/158 "2018-12-18T03:37:52Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > Holy shit you’re about as dumb as a fuckin post. No, no, as he modestly informs us in post #50, **Dacien** represents nothing less than Truth™ itself. Specifically, he represents “Truth™ from a conservative angle”. I don’t know what it is that happens to “truth” when it’s angled that way, but it must be something mighty fierce, because there’s more layers of wrongness and just raw stupidity wrapped up in just those two posts than I could possibly have the patience to systematically dissect. I think “truth from a conservative angle” must be something like “the history of the world, from a Martian angle”. I notice that there are a few other self-centered narrow-minded mercenary knuckle-dragging troglodytes grunting away in this thread who have similar sentiments. It’s an unfortunate phenomenon one might call “the Trump Effect” – internationally recognized as a sort of preceding reputation that gives decent Americans an undeserved bad name when traveling abroad among civilized countries. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2018, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-eight-hours-too-long-to-go-without-being-offered-a-drink-of-water/826130/159 "2018-12-18T03:45:57Z")
Placeholder post, so I can come back to where I left off. ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2018, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-eight-hours-too-long-to-go-without-being-offered-a-drink-of-water/826130/160 "2018-12-18T04:03:43Z")
> [@excavating\_for\_a\_mind](#): > > What’s fucking sick, to use your analogy, is to blame the train operator for the death of the person who jumped in front of the train. > > If you look at the OP, and first few pages, there is a lot or recreational outrage aimed at the border patrol. As the facts emerged, it appears the BP did everything right. The poor 7 year-old who died was put in harms way, not by the BP, but by her father. Yeah, and if you noticed I was among those calling out people for attacking the ICE agents without sufficient evidence. That doesn’t mean I’m OK with a 7 year old dying, and unlike the train operator, the US isn’t blameless for her death. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-eight-hours-too-long-to-go-without-being-offered-a-drink-of-water/826130.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-eight-hours-too-long-to-go-without-being-offered-a-drink-of-water/826130.md?page=9)