# Is eliminating governmental wa$te and fraud a good thing? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** trump\ **Created:** [February 6, 2025, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-eliminating-governmental-wa-te-and-fraud-a-good-thing/1013959 "2025-02-06T16:49:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2025, 10:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-eliminating-governmental-wa-te-and-fraud-a-good-thing/1013959/101 "2025-02-07T10:53:41Z")
> [@BorealisCooper](#): > > Trump says that every department will be studied. I have said many times that he’s not smart but I don’t think he’s so stupid not to understand the ramifications of eliminating good and necessary programs. But he’s evil enough to not care. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2025, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-eliminating-governmental-wa-te-and-fraud-a-good-thing/1013959/102 "2025-02-07T12:58:23Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > Indeed they do. Jesus, that link has so much spin in so little text! “unjustified foreign retaliatory tariffs, resulting in the loss of traditional export markets” “Unjustified” retaliatory tariffs? Retaliatory? You mean, in reaction to Trump’s arbitrary tariffs that he did first? This is the mindset we’re stuck trying to fight. And to bring this back to the “waste” issue: “President Trump authorized USDA to provide up to $14.5 billion in direct payments through MFP for 2019 to assist impacted producers” Well, folks, that right there is a great, simple and easy way to eliminate some actual waste: Don’t start pointless, ego-driven trade wars. Way better payoff than complaining about Gazan Condoms or Vietnamese Electric Cars. ---
**Author:** ![BorealisCooper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/db5fbb/32.png) [@BorealisCooper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BorealisCooper)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2025, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-eliminating-governmental-wa-te-and-fraud-a-good-thing/1013959/103 "2025-02-07T13:09:36Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > But he’s evil enough to not care. I don’t think so but my biggest concern right now is the apparent influence of Elon Musk. He wasn’t elected and I don’t feel comfortable with him having too much authority. I think it’s reasonable to give it time and see if Trump is honest about studying it all. We may not have a choice anyway. Congress and the courts will decide that. Thanks for the feedback to my question, especially for the honest and reasonable discussion. I never expect everybody to agree, let alone do I expect everybody on this board to agree with me considering it’s a mostly liberal board and I am mostly fiscally conservative. The fact is I am jaded about politics and don’t much trust most politicians, Democrat or Republican. I’m also too busy with work and family to spend as much time on this or any other message board as some of you do. I hope all the turmoil with this new administration subsides and that which is in the best interest of most of the voters will pass and will work. I am skeptical but hopeful. Have a good day. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2025, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-eliminating-governmental-wa-te-and-fraud-a-good-thing/1013959/104 "2025-02-07T13:11:50Z")
> [@BorealisCooper](#): > > I think it’s reasonable to give it time and see if Trump is honest about studying it all. We have seen from his first term and the actions that Trump has already taken in this term, that no- he is not honest about reducng waste and fraud. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2025, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-eliminating-governmental-wa-te-and-fraud-a-good-thing/1013959/105 "2025-02-07T13:14:08Z")
Trump Study? The Cliff Notes of the Cliff Notes of the Cliff Notes are too wordy for him. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2025, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-eliminating-governmental-wa-te-and-fraud-a-good-thing/1013959/106 "2025-02-07T13:30:26Z")
> [@BorealisCooper](#): > > I never expect everybody to agree I think everyone agreed with your title and OP that eliminating waste and fraud is a good thing. ---
**Author:** ![wguy123](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wguy123/32/3161_2.png) [@wguy123](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wguy123)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2025, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-eliminating-governmental-wa-te-and-fraud-a-good-thing/1013959/107 "2025-02-07T13:45:33Z")
> [@BorealisCooper](#): > > I hope all the turmoil with this new administration subsides and that which is in the best interest of most of the voters will pass and will work. I am skeptical but hopeful. We’ve all agree fraud and waste should be eliminated, now we need to identify it. I mentioned one big ticket items I think is wa$teful and could save billions (@sage_rat identified another which is very similar to what I found). Do you agree we should cut those wasteful programs? ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2025, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-eliminating-governmental-wa-te-and-fraud-a-good-thing/1013959/108 "2025-02-07T13:47:34Z")
> [@BorealisCooper](#): > > I think it’s reasonable to give it time and see if Trump is honest about studying it all. > … > … and I am mostly fiscally conservative Can you define “fiscally conservative” as you’re using it here? I used to describe myself that way, but the traditionally “conservative” parties have proven themselves useless at controlling the debt, as has been discussed in this thread, above. Now I try to use the term “fiscally responsible”, which is closer to what I really want. For example, you also mentioned “see if Trump is honest about studying it all”. That _sounds_ reasonable. Take some time, review their spending, and then make a judgement, “Is this really something the US government should be spending money on?” As I said in earlier posts, we can have legitimate disagreements about spending priorities, and that’s part of why we have elections every few years. But that isn’t what Trump et al. are doing. It’s not responsible to just shut down wide swathes of spending while you do that review. Reviews take time, and there’s _a lot_ of programs to review. If you shut them all down first, lots of good programs will be irreparably harmed. People lose their jobs, and move on to other jobs. Even if you later decide that you should be funding that program, it’s too late. It would take years, and even more money, to repair the damage done. That’s the exact opposite of being “fiscally responsible”. As we’ve said, there’s a right way to look for waste, and this isn’t it. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2025, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-eliminating-governmental-wa-te-and-fraud-a-good-thing/1013959/109 "2025-02-07T13:56:08Z")
@BorealisCooper The following are serious questions. I am not preparing some kind of trap. I am not attempting to insult you. Why did you start this thread? How do you personally define “governmental waste and fraud”? Do you agree with what Trump, Musk etc have done during Trump’s second term to combat waste and fraud? Additionally, I do not expect the OP to respond to every post if more than a handful of people post in a thread. However, if at least 90% of the posters and posts ask the same questions and raise the same issues (as is the case in this thread), I expect the OP to answer those questions and respond to those issues. You have not done so. Why not? ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2025, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-eliminating-governmental-wa-te-and-fraud-a-good-thing/1013959/110 "2025-02-07T13:57:33Z")
> [@Horatius](#): > > As we’ve said, there’s a right way to look for waste, and this isn’t it. Chesterton’s Fence says “HI!” ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2025, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-eliminating-governmental-wa-te-and-fraud-a-good-thing/1013959/111 "2025-02-07T14:14:05Z")
And if you’re really worried about “waste”, there’s a lot of new waste happening _right now_. Found in [another one of the Trump threads](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-trump-confused/996589/3665): > The four deportation flights to Guatemala came at a steep cost. The Guatemalan government confirmed that a C-17 military transport plane landed on Monday with 64 deportees on board. > > Accounting for the per-hour operating cost, those expenses reached around $4,675 per person—far exceeding the roughly $850 price of a first-class commercial ticket from El Paso to Guatemala City. > > In contrast, deportation flights operated by U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE), which use Boeing 737 and McDonnell Douglas MD-80 aircraft, cost about $630 per deported. Pure. Waste. Doing the same job that was being done just a few months ago, but at literally 7 times the cost, purely for political appearances, because Trump wants to “look tough”. ---
**Author:** ![BorealisCooper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/db5fbb/32.png) [@BorealisCooper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BorealisCooper)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2025, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-eliminating-governmental-wa-te-and-fraud-a-good-thing/1013959/112 "2025-02-07T14:14:59Z")
> [@DocCathode](#): > > Why did you start this thread? > How do you personally define “governmental waste and fraud”? > Do you agree with what Trump, Musk etc have done during Trump’s second term to combat waste and fraud? I responded to you the first time you posted in this thread. It was something like I don’t have time nor am I inclined to respond to posters that just want to argue. Do I have to spell it out for you? I responded to some of those posters who seemed to want reasonable discussion. Reasonable doesn’t always mean they agree, but that they don’t want only to argue. Some people fancy themselves to be great debaters and they want to win the internet. As previously noted, I have work and I have family. I don’t have the time and have no interest in trying to win the internet and frankly, I think it’s a very silly endeavor. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2025, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-eliminating-governmental-wa-te-and-fraud-a-good-thing/1013959/113 "2025-02-07T14:15:50Z")
I tried to respectfully pose similar questions up in post 70. As have others. Yet the OP seems unwilling to respond. Perhaps they will respond to your post. I have to question what the OP intended with their OP. Do they have a clear idea of what they are trying to convey? Because, if they do, they seem to have been unable to convey that to us. And I do not believe it is our “liberal bias” that completely bars us from comprehending. Is the OP able to comprehend our questions? Do they realize that they are failing to respond? Is there some perceptual/intellectual/experiential/language barrier impeding a meaningful exchange? As many have suggested upthread, at best, the OP seems to believe there are SOME instances of government spending they disfavor and, as a result, they are willing to support pretty aggressive and not-fine-tuned efforts to eliminate such spending. Of course, that seems to be quite different than the OP. I’m honestly approaching this as an opportunity to engage with someone who apparently disagrees with me on important matters. I’m unsure whether the OP’s failure to engage is intentional or whether it reflects some inability to comprehend on their part. This is not intended as an ad hominem directed to the OP, tho I can understand if the mods view it as such. (And I reported this post in case it is deemed inappropriate.) Instead, I’m trying to figure out the reasons for the apparent lack of engagement. And I’m eager to entertain reasons that I ought not simply reject arguments such as advanced in the OP. Liberals are often told we need to be willing to enter into discussions with folk we disagree with. Unfortunately, my consistent experience has been that attempts at such communication tend not to be any more enlightening than this thread. ---
**Author:** ![BorealisCooper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/db5fbb/32.png) [@BorealisCooper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BorealisCooper)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2025, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-eliminating-governmental-wa-te-and-fraud-a-good-thing/1013959/114 "2025-02-07T14:20:53Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > the OP seems to believe there are SOME instances of government spending they disfavor and, as a result, they are willing to support pretty aggressive and not-fine-tuned efforts to eliminate such spending To clarify for you, I think there is not SOME, but a LOT of wasted govt spending, and I favor this administration’s attempt to fix it. I could argue with you about it, but what purpose does that really serve ? ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2025, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-eliminating-governmental-wa-te-and-fraud-a-good-thing/1013959/115 "2025-02-07T14:22:55Z")
> [@BorealisCooper](#): > > I responded to you the first time you posted in this thread. It was something like I don’t have time nor am I inclined to respond to posters that just want to argue. As has been said, they do not want to _argue_. They want to engage in _a debate_- polite, with arguments based on evidence. > [@BorealisCooper](#): > > Do I have to spell it out for you? For me and 90% of the people posting in this thread, yes you do. > [@BorealisCooper](#): > > I responded to some of those posters who seemed to want reasonable discussion. Reasonable doesn’t always mean they agree, but that they don’t want only to argue. Again, every poster in this thread wants reasonable discussion. > [@BorealisCooper](#): > > Reasonable doesn’t always mean they agree, but that they don’t want only to argue. Then, why are you not engaging people in reasonable discussion? > [@BorealisCooper](#): > > Some people fancy themselves to be great debaters and they want to win the internet. As previously noted, I have work and I have family. I don’t have the time and have no interest in trying to win the internet and frankly, I think it’s a very silly endeavor. If you cannot back up your arguments with cites and evidence. the SDMB (or at least GD, and P & E) is not the place for you. ---
**Author:** ![Kropotkin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kropotkin/32/18045_2.png) [@Kropotkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kropotkin)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2025, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-eliminating-governmental-wa-te-and-fraud-a-good-thing/1013959/116 "2025-02-07T14:24:18Z")
> [@Noelq](#): > > you really shouldn’t be spending money on bedazzled yoga pants. Will no one think of the bedazzled yoga pants company owners?! ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2025, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-eliminating-governmental-wa-te-and-fraud-a-good-thing/1013959/117 "2025-02-07T14:30:04Z")
> [@BorealisCooper](#): > > and I favor this administration’s attempt to fix it. I could argue with you about it, but what purpose does that really serve ? Then why did you start this thread? You approve of Trump, and his current activities? Well, I’ve got good news for you, he fucking won, so you get what you want. Why bother starting a thread if you’re getting what you want, and have no intention of “arguing” about it? Sounds to me like what you really want to do is gloat. For that, you should probably be in the Pit. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2025, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-eliminating-governmental-wa-te-and-fraud-a-good-thing/1013959/118 "2025-02-07T14:30:45Z")
> [@BorealisCooper](#): > > I could argue with you about it, but what purpose does that really serve ? It could convince us that there is not SOME, but a LOT of wasted govt spending, and that Trump’s attempting to fix it in a way that makes sense. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2025, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-eliminating-governmental-wa-te-and-fraud-a-good-thing/1013959/119 "2025-02-07T14:31:54Z")
An on that note, I’ll shut this thread down. To all appearances you’re trolling again. * * * * * * I left this here in case someone wanted to started a new thread continuing the conversation. ### How to **Reply as a linked Topic** : Click Reply, in the upper left corner of the reply window is the reply type button, _looks like a curving arrow point to the right_. Choose **Reply as linked topic** and it starts a new thread. As an example, you can choose GD, IMHO or The Pit for it. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2025, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-eliminating-governmental-wa-te-and-fraud-a-good-thing/1013959/120 "2025-02-07T14:32:01Z")
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