# Is Elon Musk malingering? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 21, 2018, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-elon-musk-malingering/819942 "2018-08-21T01:35:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Jim\_Peebles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Jim\_Peebles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jim_Peebles)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2018, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-elon-musk-malingering/819942/1 "2018-08-21T01:35:27Z")
He’s been talking about lack of sleep and overwork lately. It seems since his “funding secured” tweet, which has drawn SEC scruitiny. Is he going to claim “temporary insanity” from sleep deprivation? Or “non-insane automatism” like Peter Buck, guitarist of the band REM? (I prefer the more succinct “sane automatism”, but hey that is how most articles I’ve seen state it.) ---
**Author:** ![Jim\_Peebles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Jim\_Peebles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jim_Peebles)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2018, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-elon-musk-malingering/819942/2 "2018-08-21T14:49:51Z")
Well, I’m shocked there have been no replies yet. I would think many posters couldn’t resist jumping in when they read the term “noninsane automatism”. I just realized something: Roseanne Barr blamed Ambien for her Jarrett tweet that got her fired from her show. Note that Peter Buck successfully used the noninsane automatism defense in court, blaming Ambien and alcohol. Maybe as more and more people get in hot water for tweets, there will be an explosion in use of the “sane automatism” defense? Do you think the SEC will charge Musk for his “funding secured” tweet? Do you think he might claim “sane automatism” as a defense? ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2018, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-elon-musk-malingering/819942/3 "2018-08-21T15:34:55Z")
No idea what you’re talking about, got a link maybe? Public figure posts regrettable tweet, then backpedals with lame excuse, that about it? How is this news? Seems pretty routine for the world we’re currently living in. Isn’t Elon just joining a large crowd of others who managed to pull it off? How is this different or remarkable? ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2018, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-elon-musk-malingering/819942/4 "2018-08-21T15:43:46Z")
He was high on acid apparently. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2018, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-elon-musk-malingering/819942/5 "2018-08-21T15:53:25Z")
I’m more curious about this Peter Buck thing now. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2018, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-elon-musk-malingering/819942/6 "2018-08-21T15:55:47Z")
How long till Musk goes completely off the rails? ---
**Author:** ![Jim\_Peebles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Jim\_Peebles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jim_Peebles)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2018, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-elon-musk-malingering/819942/7 "2018-08-21T16:29:05Z")
As requested, supporting links: Peter Buck (successfully declared a sane automaton): > **[REM guitarist cleared of air rage](https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2002/apr/06/world.jeevanvasagar)** > > REM guitarist Peter Buck yesterday thanked a jury which cleared him of going on a drunken rampage aboard a British Airways plane, in which he sprayed flight attendants with the contents of a pot of yoghurt. Roseanne Barr Ambien blame: > **[Roseanne Barr blames racist tweet on Ambien after losing hit show](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/nbcblk/roseanne-barr-apologizes-tweet-comparing-obama-adviser-ape-n878171)** > > The comedian said she was under the influence of Ambien when she called Valerie Jarrett an ape. Elon Musk lack of sleep (he even mentions Ambien): > **[Elon Musk May Not Be Working All The Hours He Claims, But Boy He Needs Sleep](https://www.forbes.com/sites/alanohnsman/2018/08/17/elon-musk-may-not-be-working-all-the-hours-he-claims-but-boy-he-needs-sleep/#261a9ace470b)** > > The workaholic CEO says he's putting in 120-hour work weeks to help Tesla get through tough times. That may be leading to a risky level of sleep deprivation that only makes things worse. Elon Musk tweet trouble: > **[Tesla Is Said to Be Subpoenaed by S.E.C. Over Elon Musk Tweet (Published 2018)](https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/15/business/tesla-musk-sec-subpoena-goldman.html)** > > The government is investigating Tesla after Mr. Musk said he had secured funding to take the electric-car company private, causing its shares to soar. Is “Ambien Automaton” going to be a thing going forward? ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2018, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-elon-musk-malingering/819942/8 "2018-08-21T16:36:32Z")
“Malingering” means “to feign illness in order to shirk or avoid work.” Now, Musk may well be trying to blame some poor decisions on lack of sleep (or on Ambien), but that doesn’t sound like malingering, per se. The guy is a major-league workaholic, and I don’t think that’s changed. Musk is a brilliant man, but he’s also a seriously weird dude, even outside of the recent tweets. He’s occasionally said odd, off-the-cuff things for a long while; it just so happens that this one got him into trouble, because it affected Tesla’s stock price. ---
**Author:** ![Jim\_Peebles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Jim\_Peebles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jim_Peebles)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2018, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-elon-musk-malingering/819942/9 "2018-08-21T16:38:06Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > “Malingering” means “to feign illness in order to shirk or avoid work.” Now, Musk may well be trying to blame some poor decisions on lack of sleep (or on Ambien), but that doesn’t sound like malingering, per se. > > Musk is a brilliant man, but he’s also a seriously weird dude, even outside of the recent tweets. He’s occasionally said odd, off-the-cuff things for a long while; it just so happens that this one got him into trouble, because it affected Tesla’s stock price. Get an unabridged dictionary. It is also used for feigning illness to avoid criminal punishment. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2018, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-elon-musk-malingering/819942/10 "2018-08-21T16:52:14Z")
Until the SEC charges him with anything, this whole discussion is moot. Besides it sounds like \*\*he does \*\*have his financing set up with the Saudis, and other PE funds. Just because JPMorgan, doesn’t believe it doesn’t make it true. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2018, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-elon-musk-malingering/819942/11 "2018-08-21T18:27:34Z")
It sounds like Elon Musk being Elon Musk. He’s an odd duck, but this behavior isn’t a departure from the norm. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2018, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-elon-musk-malingering/819942/12 "2018-08-21T19:13:16Z")
Rolling Stone did a lengthy article on Musk last year. For those who aren’t as familiar with him, the breadth of his interests and projects, and his odd nature, it’s an interesting read. > **[Elon Musk: The Architect of Tomorrow](https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-features/elon-musk-the-architect-of-tomorrow-120850/)** > > Inside the inventor’s world-changing plans to inhabit outer space, revolutionize high-speed transportation, reinvent cars – and hopefully find love along the way ---
**Author:** ![Shalmanese](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shalmanese](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shalmanese)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2018, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-elon-musk-malingering/819942/13 "2018-08-21T19:30:51Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > No idea what you’re talking about, got a link maybe? > > Public figure posts regrettable tweet, then backpedals with lame excuse, that about it? > > How is this news? Seems pretty routine for the world we’re currently living in. Isn’t Elon just joining a large crowd of others who managed to pull it off? How is this different or remarkable? Because people lost real money on his regrettable tweet. There’s a reason the SEC has an entire set of incredibly elaborate rules over corporate disclosure. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2018, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-elon-musk-malingering/819942/14 "2018-08-21T20:01:58Z")
> [@Gatopescado](#): > > How long till Musk goes completely off the rails? It seems like [he already has](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/innovations/wp/2018/05/03/please-sell-our-stock-elon-musk-clashes-with-wall-street-during-epic-earnings-call/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.7449e8bcb01f). > [@Shalmanese](#): > > Because people lost real money on his regrettable tweet. There’s a reason the SEC has an entire set of incredibly elaborate rules over corporate disclosure. Indeed. Although Tesla has been ridiculously overvalued in comparison to any realistic profit they might actually make in the foreseeable future, investors still have a right to protection against malicious, manipulative, or self-destructive statements made by the CEO and corporate leadership, especially if done for personal benefit. But this idea that Musk is “malingering”, trying to manufacture the appearance of instability as some kind of legal defense doesn’t make much sense. For one, “the insanity defense” is rarely successfully invoked even in criminal trials; for another, it has no bearing on SEC regulation. And frankly, this is not new behavior for Musk, who has always been mercurial, spurious, and demanding to extremes. And while I know this type of behavior is taken by some people as a sign of genius, it also makes it difficult to stick to a plan and manage expectations when the top leader makes absurd predictions and wholly unrealistic timelines. Elon Musk really needs to give someone else his Twitter password and run statements through a filter, even if he isn’t posting while high on LSD. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Jim\_Peebles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Jim\_Peebles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jim_Peebles)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2018, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-elon-musk-malingering/819942/15 "2018-08-21T20:32:10Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > It seems like [he already has](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/innovations/wp/2018/05/03/please-sell-our-stock-elon-musk-clashes-with-wall-street-during-epic-earnings-call/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.7449e8bcb01f). > > Indeed. Although Tesla has been ridiculously overvalued in comparison to any realistic profit they might actually make in the foreseeable future, investors still have a right to protection against malicious, manipulative, or self-destructive statements made by the CEO and corporate leadership, especially if done for personal benefit. > > But this idea that Musk is “malingering”, trying to manufacture the appearance of instability as some kind of legal defense doesn’t make much sense. For one, “the insanity defense” is rarely successfully invoked even in criminal trials; for another, it has no bearing on SEC regulation. And frankly, this is not new behavior for Musk, who has always been mercurial, spurious, and demanding to extremes. And while I know this type of behavior is taken by some people as a sign of genius, it also makes it difficult to stick to a plan and manage expectations when the top leader makes absurd predictions and wholly unrealistic timelines. Elon Musk really needs to give someone else his Twitter password and run statements through a filter, even if he isn’t posting while high on LSD. > > Stranger The sane automaton defense, if successful gets you off criminal liabilty AND you aren’t places in a mental hospital. Maybe it is more dangerous: they might say we agree you were acting as an automaton, but an insane automaton. And you’d rather just go to regular jail. Yes an insanity plea is rare, and sane automaton is even rarer. And is Peter Buck the only successful sane automaton claimer? Does it sit well with you that someone should be jailed for an “Ambien tweet”? Do you believe you can ever blame Ambien? ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2018, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-elon-musk-malingering/819942/16 "2018-08-22T13:23:24Z")
> [@Jim\_Peebles](#): > > The sane automaton defense, if successful gets you off criminal liabilty AND you aren’t placed in a mental hospital … an insanity plea is rare, and sane automaton is even rarer. And is Peter Buck the only successful sane automaton claimer? For what it’s worth, [the alleged assailant of Mollie Tibbets is floating this exact defense in his statement to police](https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2018/08/21/mollie-tibbett-iowa-students-body-found-media-reports-say/1050186002/) (just not calling it ‘sane automaton’): > [@](#): > > On the day of the attack, Rivera noticed Tibbetts jogging and briefly followed her in his black Chevy Malibu, a criminal complaint says. > > Rivera told detectives he got out of his car and started “running behind her and alongside her,” according to the criminal complaint. Tibbetts then grabbed her phone and told him she was going to call the police. > > **At that point, Rivera “got mad” and panicked and blocked his memory, which is what happens when “he gets very upset,” according to the criminal complaint. Rivera told investigators he doesn’t remember anything after that until he arrived at an intersection.** > > He said he made a U-Turn, drove to an entrance of a field, pulled into a driveway and rode up to a cornfield, court papers said. **He then realized her had earpieces in his lap, which made him realize that Tibbetts was in the trunk** , according to the criminal complaint. ---
**Author:** ![Doctor\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctor_jackson/32/32_2.png) [@Doctor\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doctor_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2018, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-elon-musk-malingering/819942/17 "2018-08-22T18:37:25Z")
Boy, if I had a nickel for every time I saw earphones in my lap and was reminded I had a body in the trunk… ---
**Author:** ![EmilyG](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/emilyg/32/364_2.png) [@EmilyG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EmilyG)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2018, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-elon-musk-malingering/819942/18 "2018-08-22T18:41:27Z")
I really dislike the guy, but I don’t think he’s faking his problems to get out of doing work. ---
**Author:** ![guizot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guizot/32/3636_2.png) [@guizot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guizot)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2018, 6:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-elon-musk-malingering/819942/19 "2018-10-22T06:34:32Z")
Now he says that the public will get free rides in the tunnel under Hawthorne–on December 11. Really? Free rides on what? I’m sure there won’t be a huge cavern of vehicles effortlessly zipping around under Hawthorne like in [that video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5V_VzRrSBI). I can be sure because there isn’t anywhere to go in Hawthorne. ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2018, 10:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-elon-musk-malingering/819942/20 "2018-10-22T10:35:54Z")
He’s a guy with a load of money and big ideas, whose success has gone to his head a bit, and sometimes his mouth runs faster than his brain. One of the problems with Twitter is its immediacy and how we tend to use it for those odd little thoughts that zip through our half-awake mind at 1am. There’s been a bit of a Musk backlash recently, and I don’t think it’s fair, even if they do have a point about some specifics. He’s just a guy, no need to hold him up to unrealistic standards. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-elon-musk-malingering/819942.md?page=2)