# Is Eminem for Real? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 11, 2002, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-eminem-for-real/127896 "2002-09-11T01:48:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2002, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-eminem-for-real/127896/21 "2002-09-11T18:21:25Z")
Shoot, I bought Moby and Eminem’s latest albums because I liked “We Are All Made of Stars” and “Without Me.” Am I a fag or a homophobe? I like music that speaks to me, but I had no idea that an affinity for certain kinds of music is a surefire diagnostic key to my personality, politics, and sexual preference. ---
**Author:** ![WSLer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a6a055/32.png) [@WSLer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WSLer)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2002, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-eminem-for-real/127896/22 "2002-09-11T18:53:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Bryan Ekers \* > \*\* > > I’ll field this one, WS. > > Fuck, no. \*\* Bryan, DO NOT PUT WORDS IN MY MOUTH. DO NOT THINK THAT I GIVE YOU LEAVE TO SPEAK FOR ME, FOR I DO NOT. Is that crystal clear or do I have to get snippy? ---
**Author:** ![WSLer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a6a055/32.png) [@WSLer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WSLer)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2002, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-eminem-for-real/127896/23 "2002-09-11T18:59:13Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Walloon \* > \*\* > > **WSLer** , do you ever answer posts without using the word “fuck”? \*\* Walloon, All the time.\* Does using a variation on 'fuck" count as actually using it? If so, then the answer is still all the time. I do not spew profamity willy-nilly, when I use it, there is a purpose and meaning behind it. The fact that you are of the opinion that I am unable to reply to posts unless I include the word “fuck” in them, to me shows that you have only read a VERY small number of my posts. As a final note, I am hardly the F-bomb dropping Champion of the SDMB. I doubt I’m even in the Top 25. ---
**Author:** ![Gozu\_Tashoya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/7993a0/32.png) [@Gozu\_Tashoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gozu_Tashoya)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2002, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-eminem-for-real/127896/24 "2002-09-11T19:11:53Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by WSLer \* > \*\*But in 15 years will you ever hear any of his songs on the radio? > > Fuck no. \*\* Yeah, well, no kidding. I mean, come on, it’s Eminem we’re talking about here. All his good stuff (YMMV) is laden with profanity and I doubt FCC/radio station standards will drop enough for that stuff to get air anytime soon. And all his mainstream stuff, as previously mentioned, is pop trash. ---
**Author:** ![SmackFu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/53a042/32.png) [@SmackFu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmackFu)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2002, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-eminem-for-real/127896/25 "2002-09-11T21:23:06Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Shagnasty \* > **Eminem is known for his hate speach against homosexuals and minorities.** Is he known for being against minorities? Anyway, if your desired fan base is young males, being homophobic and misogynistic is not generally a turn-off. Also, in a more general question, does saying hateful things about woman you have personal relationships with (like Mom or girlfriend) count as misogynistic or it just normal emotion? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2002, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-eminem-for-real/127896/26 "2002-09-11T22:03:04Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by WSLer \* > \*\*Bryan, > DO NOT PUT WORDS IN MY MOUTH. > DO NOT THINK THAT I GIVE YOU LEAVE TO SPEAK FOR ME, FOR I DO NOT. > > Is that crystal clear or do I have to get snippy? \*\* Just for that, I’m going to write a song about you. ---
**Author:** ![Tars\_Tarkas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Tars\_Tarkas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tars_Tarkas)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2002, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-eminem-for-real/127896/27 "2002-09-11T22:15:04Z")
Are we still in Cafe Society? All the swearing and personal insults give me Pit vibes. ---
**Author:** ![Eutychus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Eutychus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eutychus)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2002, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-eminem-for-real/127896/28 "2002-09-11T22:57:40Z")
Cool it, kids. I’m watching. ---
**Author:** ![WSLer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a6a055/32.png) [@WSLer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WSLer)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2002, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-eminem-for-real/127896/29 "2002-09-11T23:37:18Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by gex gex \* > \*\* He probably used words like faggot and gay without connecting them in his mind to homosexuality. When people started calling him on the use of these words, he played it up to sell records. > > Both him and Dre have said in interviews statements to the effect of “we don’t really care about those people [gays]” - supporting my belief that his problem is more ignorance than hatred. > > And after the MTV thing, Eminem claimed that he “didn’t know Elton John was gay.” > **WSLer** are there any hip hop songs that, in your opinion, _will_ be played on the radio in 15 years time, or do you expect the whole genre to disappear between now and 2017? \*\* Gex gex, What the hell else could you connect the words “gay” and faggot" to in this day and age, except homosexuality? Do you really think Eminem is referencing “a bundle of sticks,” when he uses the word faggot? Do you think Eminem is referring to people as “happy” when he calls them gay? Don’t think so. Also, it was after the Grammies 2 years ago that Eminem made his “I never knew Elton John was gay,” claim. Now, I have to admit that I’m not a really big fan of hip-hop, which means that I don’t own any hip-hop CD’s. But yes, ido think there will be hip-hop layed on the radio 15 years from now. Some tracks are timeless: Grandmaster Flash & The Furious Five- **The Message** , The Sugarhill Gang-- **Rappers Delight** , Run DMC–\*\*Walk This Way. \*\* There are some others. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2002, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-eminem-for-real/127896/30 "2002-09-12T00:27:34Z")
**SmackFu** -listen to _Kim_ sometime. If that’s not misogynistic, I’ll eat my socks. ---
**Author:** ![BlackKnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/eb8c5e/32.png) [@BlackKnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlackKnight)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2002, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-eminem-for-real/127896/31 "2002-09-12T00:39:05Z")
I’ve heard it. Doesn’t sound misogynistic to me at all. _shrug_ ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2002, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-eminem-for-real/127896/32 "2002-09-12T01:40:55Z")
“Gay” and “faggot” are not always used in their literal sense. To a lot of young people “gay” is something you don’t like, and “faggot” is somebody you don’t like. ---
**Author:** ![CrankyAsAnOldMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crankyasanoldman/32/11670_2.png) [@CrankyAsAnOldMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CrankyAsAnOldMan)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2002, 6:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-eminem-for-real/127896/33 "2002-09-12T06:40:38Z")
As a dowdy 35-year old white suburban soccer-mom-to-be, I confess I think Eminem in interesting and has something to say. I used to loathe him “on principle” based on media coverage of him, but as I’ve heard more of his music and heard what others in the music industry have to say about him, he intrigues me and I think he’s got a lot of talent. Singing is not truth; lyrics are not news or facts. It’s poetry, and it’s fiction, and it says something. ---
**Author:** ![Orual](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/779978/32.png) [@Orual](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Orual)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2002, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-eminem-for-real/127896/34 "2002-09-12T12:55:51Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Guinastasia \* > \*\ ***SmackFu** -listen to _Kim_ sometime. If that’s not misogynistic, I’ll eat my socks. \*\* I’ve got to say, i don’t think this song is misogynistic. I look at it kind of like it’s therapy. He has a lot of problems with his (then) wife, he is very angry with her. Better he should write/sing about how he wants to kill her than actually doing it. That’s why a lot of his music comes out so rage- filled. Catharsis. I don’t see how anyone could think he’s against minorities, he’s produced by Dr. Dre for pete’s sake. ---
**Author:** ![gex\_gex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/94ad74/32.png) [@gex\_gex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gex_gex)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2002, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-eminem-for-real/127896/35 "2002-09-12T15:01:55Z")
> [@](#): > > _originally posted by WSLer_ > Gex gex, > > What the hell else could you connect the words “gay” and faggot" to in this day and age, except homosexuality? Do you really think Eminem is referencing “a bundle of sticks,” when he uses the word faggot? Do you think Eminem is referring to people as “happy” when he calls them gay? Don’t think so. Of course anyone who says ‘faggot’ knows the word means ‘homosexual’. However, to many (often) uneducated (usually) young (usually) males, the word is seperated from its understood meaning by the way it is often used. If some guy says to a mate “The new Austin Powers movie is so gay”, he is saying that he does not like it, not that he considers Goldmember guilty of sodomy. This does not prevent the statement from being homophobic; it is. By associating something one doesn’t like with homosexuality, the view of homosexuality as something that one does not like is reinforced. But the point is, when Eminem and many of his ilk say that something is gay or someone is a faggot, the love between a man and a man does not always enter their minds. Just like if I call someone a ‘bastard,’ I am not necessarily questioning the legitimacy of their birth. Just like if I call someone an ‘arsehole,’ I am not necessarily suggesting that they are literally the exit end of the large intestine. So, it seems to me that Eminem is ignorant rather than particularly homophobic. Further disclaimer, just to make things clear: I don’t like the words gay or faggot as generic terms to describe negative qualities. I’m providing an explanation of their use, not a rationalisation. > [@](#): > > Also, it was after the Grammies 2 years ago that Eminem made his “I never knew Elton John was gay,” claim. Wasn’t that what we were talking about? > [@](#): > > Now, I have to admit that I’m not a really big fan of hip-hop, which means that I don’t own any hip-hop CD’s. But yes, ido think there will be hip-hop layed on the radio 15 years from now. Some tracks are timeless: Grandmaster Flash & The Furious Five- The Message, The Sugarhill Gang-- Rappers Delight, Run DMC–Walk This Way. There are some others. So, only hip hop that can be dismissed as retro will be played. Or hip hop that covers white rock songs. Hip hop from the first few years of its conception. Why won’t anything more recent be played? Why won’t Eminem be played? Sadly, you may be right. You may even be overestimating radio. Eminem will get played, but I never hear Grandmaster Flash on any of the Hits of the 70s, 80s and 90s radio stations. I doubt they will suddenly decide they could play many respected hip hop artists on the radio, just like they don’t today. But so what? I never hear many great bands on mainstream radio (Sex Pistols, Buzzcocks, Sly and The Family Stone, Parliament, Joy Division, The Stone Roses etc.) or many who only have one or two hits played (The Smiths, The Clash, The Beastie Boys, Neil Young…) In fact, what I do hear is Katrina and the Waves, The Go-Go’s, Bananarama and The Knack incessantly. Are these the greatest examples of musical output in the second half of the twentieth century? **brondicon** : [here](http://www.planet-eminem.com/Info/Article0.htm) is a cite for Eminem claiming not to know Elton John was gay. I can’t vouch for the site’s reliability, but the quote was well documented at the time, because it was so ridiculous and an obvious lie. ---
**Author:** ![occ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8c91f0/32.png) [@occ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/occ)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2002, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-eminem-for-real/127896/36 "2002-09-12T16:48:32Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Miller \* > \*\* > > Gosh, thanks so much for insulting me, personally, because you don’t like some other guy’s music. You’re doing wonders for the image of Eminem fans everywhere. \*\* Don’t worry, the guy thinks that Moby’s audience is the domain of hipsters. Hipsters love the obscure, music-wise, and Moby is anything but. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Fight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/90ced4/32.png) [@Cat\_Fight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Fight)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2002, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-eminem-for-real/127896/37 "2002-09-12T19:40:29Z")
I use “fag” and “gay” all the time in a non-sexual way. “That is so gay”, “You guys are fags”, often in the presence of real live homosexuals who aren’t offended in the least. It’s kind of a nod to playground language, silly words like “gaylord”. Here’s an example of a conversation my friend had with his gay (a man who likes having sex with men) boss: boss- I went to (club name) last night. friend- Really? I never go. boss- Why not? friend- I dunno. I don’t like the music there and the crowd is so gay. boss- There aren’t a lot of fags there. friend- No, I mean cheesy- gay. boss- Oh. Yeah, they are kind of gay. Totally low-key, non-controversial conversation (to those involved, at least) ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2002, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-eminem-for-real/127896/38 "2002-09-13T03:37:11Z")
OK, now you’ve offended cheesemakers! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-eminem-for-real/127896.md?page=1)