# Is "empty barrel" a racist attack? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 20, 2017, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-empty-barrel-a-racist-attack/799389 "2017-10-20T21:23:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2017, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-empty-barrel-a-racist-attack/799389/81 "2017-10-23T15:58:04Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > The fact that he’s not issued an apology yet puts him either as a goddamned liar or as a goddamned coward unwilling to face up to his errors. And if he’s anything like his boss, he will never apologize for anything, ever. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2017, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-empty-barrel-a-racist-attack/799389/82 "2017-10-23T15:59:16Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Wait, is “lie” too strong a word for you? Perhaps “fact free”? “Not entirely truthful”? “Sad.” ---
**Author:** ![CurtC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce73a5/32.png) [@CurtC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CurtC)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2017, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-empty-barrel-a-racist-attack/799389/83 "2017-10-23T16:04:11Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > It sure looks like, at a minimum, he went off “half-cocked”. Since we’re using gun analogies. Are you thinking that “empty barrel” is a gun analogy? ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2017, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-empty-barrel-a-racist-attack/799389/84 "2017-10-23T16:13:14Z")
> [@CurtC](#): > > Are you thinking that “empty barrel” is a gun analogy? That was **k9bfriender** : > [@k9bfriender](#): > > … initially, I guessed it was a military term, with barrels referring to the barrels of guns, and that somehow an unloaded gun made more sound than a loaded one. … ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2017, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-empty-barrel-a-racist-attack/799389/85 "2017-10-23T16:26:15Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > And Wilson made the same mistake. By adding in the full-of-shit-bit about “that’s a racist term”, she allowed the rest of her message to be lost. That is my point. So, you are reduced to “both sides do it”? Will there by a victory parade to celebrate? ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2017, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-empty-barrel-a-racist-attack/799389/86 "2017-10-23T16:38:22Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > This is the sentence people on your side seemed to be focusing on: > > It was, IMHO, a small footnote to a much larger statement about respecting the sacrifices made by members of our military. Do you not understand how I might find it ironic that you were then complaining about people “focusing on that single remark out of her entire statement and response to questions”? I hate it that this board won’t let me quote a quote. Particularly frustrating when the quote wasn’t posted anywhere. But you left out the most damning sentence,which accused her of sitting back down once she praised herself. She didn’t. I watched the tape of the whole thing. She talked for a long time about how truly wonderful the FBI was, she talked at length about the 2 men the building was named for, she asked the FBI and law enforcement agents in the audience to stand for a round of applause. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2017, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-empty-barrel-a-racist-attack/799389/87 "2017-10-23T16:43:36Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > It was, IMHO, a small footnote to a much larger statement about respecting the sacrifices made by members of our military. Do you not understand how I might find it ironic that you were then complaining about people “focusing on that single remark out of her entire statement and response to questions”? It was an _extremely_ harsh criticism made against a sitting Congresswoman. Do you believe he often criticized his colonels like that? In public?? When the charge was false??? ---
**Author:** ![spifflog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@spifflog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spifflog)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2017, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-empty-barrel-a-racist-attack/799389/88 "2017-10-23T16:48:33Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > The term itself isn’t racist, but the context in which it is used might still possibly leave open the possibility that it could have been used in a racist manner. Well that seems rock solid to me!! Let’s brand the guy forever racist!! :dubious: If you have to try this hard, then just about any comment including “Good morning” is susceptible to being racist. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2017, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-empty-barrel-a-racist-attack/799389/89 "2017-10-23T16:55:23Z")
> [@spifflog](#): > > If you have to try this hard, then just about any comment including “Good morning” is susceptible to being racist. Yeah, you _say_ that it is a good morning, but all over the world brown people are suffering, you racist! White privilege! ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2017, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-empty-barrel-a-racist-attack/799389/90 "2017-10-23T16:57:27Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > In what way(s) was his press conference an ‘assault on the constitution’ in your eyes? The assault occurred when huckabysanders explained that it was "highly inappropriate’ to argue with a 4 star general. It’s not and we shouldn’t have to pay her a salary to tell us that it is. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2017, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-empty-barrel-a-racist-attack/799389/91 "2017-10-23T16:58:51Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > It was, IMHO, a small footnote to a much larger statement about respecting the sacrifices made by members of our military. Do you not understand how I might find it ironic that you were then complaining about people “focusing on that single remark out of her entire statement and response to questions”? I don’t agree that the statement was really about a reflection on the sacrifices of members of the military. I think the statement was mostly about wrapping the White House in the flag in order to deflect criticism of a President who can’t even seem to express empathy to a grieving family. If his statement was about looking out for members of the military, then I suggest that Kelly should not have: (1) demeaned people who did not, or could not, serve in the military; (2) accused a member of Congress who has a pre-existing relationship with the family of doing something wrong by not excusing herself to another place during the phone call; (3) incorrectly accused the Congresswoman of claiming credit for building a FBI building; (4) engaged in an attack on the character any member of Congress at all; (5) took questions only from journalists who had connections to Gold Star families, as if other journalists were less worthy of questioning him. While a good portion of General Kelly’s remarks were sobering and quite moving, that part was overshadowed by the sheer arrogance of the rest of his remarks. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2017, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-empty-barrel-a-racist-attack/799389/92 "2017-10-23T17:24:25Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > The assault occurred when huckabysanders explained that it was "highly inappropriate’ to argue with a 4 star general. It’s not and we shouldn’t have to pay her a salary to tell us that it is. I’m not following. She said “[If you want to get into a debate with a four-star Marine general, I think that is something highly inappropriate.](http://www.cnn.com/2017/10/20/politics/white-house-sarah-sanders-john-kelly-highly-inappropriate/index.html)” She expressed her opinion, same as you (and I, and **Ravenman** ) do. How is the Constitution assaulted by any of that? We’re all entitled to hold and express our opinions. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2017, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-empty-barrel-a-racist-attack/799389/93 "2017-10-23T17:24:29Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > And Wilson made the same mistake. By adding in the full-of-shit-bit about “that’s a racist term”, she allowed the rest of her message to be lost. That is my point. And while I hate the “he started it” - but, in fact - Kelly started the problem. He had the ability to defuse it quite easily - and chose instead not to. Wether or not it is a ‘racist term’ - Wilson clearly feels it was - which while maybe ‘bullshit’ to you and others - is not to her. Have a pleasant day. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2017, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-empty-barrel-a-racist-attack/799389/94 "2017-10-23T17:42:24Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I’m not following. She said “[If you want to get into a debate with a four-star Marine general, I think that is something highly inappropriate.](http://www.cnn.com/2017/10/20/politics/white-house-sarah-sanders-john-kelly-highly-inappropriate/index.html)” She expressed her opinion, same as you (and I, and **Ravenman** ) do. How is the Constitution assaulted by any of that? We’re all entitled to hold and express our opinions. I think there’s plenty of gun rights advocates who see politicians calling for, say, a ban on assault weapons as an assault on the Second Amendment. I’m not sure what your opinion is on that, but seems we have two very similar situations that ought to be treated the same. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2017, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-empty-barrel-a-racist-attack/799389/95 "2017-10-23T17:52:04Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > I think there’s plenty of gun rights advocates who see politicians calling for, say, a ban on assault weapons as an assault on the Second Amendment. I’m not sure what your opinion is on that, but seems we have two very similar situations that ought to be treated the same. Except that Sarah Huckabee Sanders wasn’t calling for a ban on getting into debates with former Marine generals. That strikes me as a crucial difference. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2017, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-empty-barrel-a-racist-attack/799389/96 "2017-10-23T18:14:50Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Except that Sarah Huckabee Sanders wasn’t calling for a ban on getting into debates with former Marine generals. That strikes me as a crucial difference. Sure, of course you can see differences: you agree with one statement as being an assault on the Constitution, and don’t agree with a different statement as impugning the White House of the guy you voted for. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2017, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-empty-barrel-a-racist-attack/799389/97 "2017-10-23T18:36:09Z")
Based on my reading and experience, in the military and out of it, it’s extremely appropriate to question military leaders of any rank and position. It’s one of the great strengths of the American system, in my opinion – that no leader is beyond question, or beyond doubt, and that dissent and contrary opinions not only should be heard, but must necessarily be considered. The idea that a four star Marine General shouldn’t be debated or questioned is highly disturbing to me. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2017, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-empty-barrel-a-racist-attack/799389/98 "2017-10-23T18:43:42Z")
Which part is racist? Almost every other epithet has some deducible background - i.e., “wetback” means someone was swimming the Rio Grande; “banana” refers to yellow skin, “gorilla” compares black people to black animals, etc. But how does “empty barrel” denigrate a particular race? ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2017, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-empty-barrel-a-racist-attack/799389/99 "2017-10-23T19:00:07Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Which part is racist? Almost every other epithet has some deducible background - i.e., “wetback” means someone was swimming the Rio Grande; “banana” refers to yellow skin, “gorilla” compares black people to black animals, etc. But how does “empty barrel” denigrate a particular race? The consensus here appears to be that it is not racist, but perhaps we should be nice to Wilson’s misguided feelings on the matter. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2017, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-empty-barrel-a-racist-attack/799389/100 "2017-10-23T19:02:26Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Based on my reading and experience, in the military and out of it, it’s extremely appropriate to question military leaders of any rank and position. It’s one of the great strengths of the American system, in my opinion – that no leader is beyond question, or beyond doubt, and that dissent and contrary opinions not only should be heard, but must necessarily be considered. The idea that a four star Marine General shouldn’t be debated or questioned is highly disturbing to me. My opinion on the matter is more closely aligned with yours than hers, but I don’t see her expressing her differing viewpoint on the appropriateness of debating former Marine generals as an ‘assault on the Constitution’. Do you consider it one? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-empty-barrel-a-racist-attack/799389.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-empty-barrel-a-racist-attack/799389.md?page=6)