# Is endorsing/signing the back of a check you deposit really necessary? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 22, 2013, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-endorsing-signing-the-back-of-a-check-you-deposit-really-necessary/666915 "2013-08-22T22:37:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Si\_Amigo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/si_amigo/32/2877_2.png) [@Si\_Amigo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Si_Amigo)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2013, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-endorsing-signing-the-back-of-a-check-you-deposit-really-necessary/666915/21 "2013-08-23T12:46:47Z")
I just sent the State Department a check to pay for my new passport and was going to use the electronic copy of the canceled check for my expense report in case the government didn’t send a receipt back with the passport. When I got my passport back there was no receipt for payment, so I went online to my bank (Chase) and low and behold there was a note stating that the government no longer sends cancelled checks to the bank, so I have no proof for my expense account that I paid for the passport. :mad: Luckily I made copies of the checks before I sent them out and I am hoping that my company will not give me too much grief for using those as proof of payment. ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2013, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-endorsing-signing-the-back-of-a-check-you-deposit-really-necessary/666915/22 "2013-08-23T13:02:34Z")
> [@aNewLeaf](#): > > What more explanation do you want? > You sign the check over to the bank, they cash it and deposit the money. > > What you call technical gobbledegook is basic banking in this country. To repeat my original question (which Acsenray in no way answered): > [@](#): > > What extra security (or whatever) is this [i.e., my endorsing a check with my signature on the back] supposed to provide, beyond that entailed in identifying the account into which it is to be paid? > [@Acsenray](#): > > It’s not just technical gobbledygook. It’s how the law says that they should operate if they want to be protected. They can bypass the rules if they don’t think it’s a huge risk, but if something unexpected happens, the party that didn’t follow the rule is getting screwed. I am well aware that it is the rule (and, no doubt, the law). The question is, what, if anything, is the _point_ of this rule and law? What bad consequences might ensue if this rule were not in place or were not followed or enforced? What is this risk you mention, that is somehow mitigated by having me sign a check on the back when when I deposit it? The only risk I can think of is that, with out teh check endorsement rule, some imposter pretending to be me (but unable to forge my signature) might be able get away with depositing checks into my account without my knowledge or consent. That is a risk I am more than willing to take (and I do not see why the bank should be concerned about it either). Given that, in practice, the rule is quite often _not_ followed, and seems to be enforced very laxly, and no disasters seem to ensue, I fairly strongly suspect that the true answer is that there is _no_ good reason for it, it is just the way that things have always been done. However, I am open to being persuaded that there really is a good reason for it, or that once upon a time there was a good reason. Nothing you or anyone in this thread has said so far, however, goes any distance toward so persuading me. All you have done so far is to restate, with banking jargon, the fact that it is a rule. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2013, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-endorsing-signing-the-back-of-a-check-you-deposit-really-necessary/666915/23 "2013-08-23T13:21:30Z")
> [@njtt](#): > > I am well aware that it is the rule (and, no doubt, the law). The question is, what, if anything, is the _point_ of this rule and law? The point of the rule is: (1) If the check is lost or stolen, to prevent the person in possession of it from chashing the check fraudulently. (2) To assign the risk of who is going to be stuck with paying if the check is cached fraudulently or it bounces. You have to study the Uniform Commercial Code or the equivalent in your country to understand this. Believe me, banks do care about it. > [@](#): > > Given that, in practice, the rule is quite often _not_ followed, and seems to be enforced very laxly, and no disasters seem to ensue, I fairly strongly suspect that the true answer is that there is _no_ good reason for it, it is just the way that things have always been done. The reason it is laxly followed is that these days the amounts of money involved in most checks is relatively small and many banks are willing to risk losing those small amounts of money. When checks get large and significant, banks are much more careful. So it’s not that there is no good reason for it, but rather that in most cases banks are willing to take the risk of not following it. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2013, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-endorsing-signing-the-back-of-a-check-you-deposit-really-necessary/666915/24 "2013-08-23T14:59:40Z")
> [@Space\_Vegetable](#): > > In 2009 the small company I own received a check for several thousand dollars. I stamped For Deposit Only on the back, along with the checking account number for my company’s account at Bank #1. > > Then, by mistake, I deposited the check into my personal checking account at Bank #2, at one of their ATMs. > > I called Bank #2 after I realized my error, and was told that when I deposited via ATM, they didn’t care who a check was made out to, or anything it said on the back. The card I stuck in the ATM belonged to my personal checking account, so that was where the deposit would go. And that’s just what happened. No phone calls from the bank, no nothing. That’s been my solution for these sorts of things: stick it in the ATM. They don’t care. Before I had a DBA and proper business checking account made out to my business name, folks would sometimes write me checks made out to my business name. A human teller wouldn’t take them. So I just walked them around the corner and stuck 'em into the ATM. I did it dozens of times and never got a check bounced back. ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2013, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-endorsing-signing-the-back-of-a-check-you-deposit-really-necessary/666915/25 "2013-08-23T17:43:55Z")
> [@voltaire](#): > > The bank in question, Wells Fargo, \*does \*want a picture of the back of the check when making a check-deposit by phone. And Bank of America’s app, at least, will reject the deposit if it doesn’t detect an endorsement on the back of the check. ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2013, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-endorsing-signing-the-back-of-a-check-you-deposit-really-necessary/666915/26 "2013-08-23T17:56:16Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > That’s been my solution for these sorts of things: stick it in the ATM. They don’t care. Before I had a DBA and proper business checking account made out to my business name, folks would sometimes write me checks made out to my business name. A human teller wouldn’t take them. So I just walked them around the corner and stuck 'em into the ATM. I did it dozens of times and never got a check bounced back. If you get a $5 check from your grandma because she’s stuck in 1961 and thinks that’s a lot of money, put it in. Although if you absolutely can’t risk it being cancelled, this may not work 100% of the time. The normal way if it’s made out to the wrong name is to endorse once with the name they wrote, and again with the name on the acount. But business checks are sometimes treated funny, and they might not like that. I recommend a DBA or similar on your account: “Bob Smith d/b/a Bob’s Widgets” or similar. Not always necessary but it can cover your ass. ---
**Author:** ![Lanzy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/74df32/32.png) [@Lanzy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lanzy)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2013, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-endorsing-signing-the-back-of-a-check-you-deposit-really-necessary/666915/27 "2013-08-23T19:08:14Z")
It can’t be a “requirement” because I have been depositing checks into my BOA account for years with no endorsements at all. ---
**Author:** ![Ad\_Astra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb8c5e/32.png) [@Ad\_Astra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ad_Astra)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2013, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-endorsing-signing-the-back-of-a-check-you-deposit-really-necessary/666915/28 "2013-08-23T19:40:12Z")
For another data point, I just wrote a check to myself a few days ago to transfer some money from one bank to another. I signed the front, but I completely forgot to endorse the back before I deposited it. I just checked my accounts and the check went through - no phone call, no cancellation, nothing. ---
**Author:** ![EmAnJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d2c977/32.png) [@EmAnJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EmAnJ)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2013, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-endorsing-signing-the-back-of-a-check-you-deposit-really-necessary/666915/29 "2013-08-23T20:33:31Z")
Canadian here. I bank at RBC, deposit through the ATM on a regular basis. I haven’t signed the back of a cheque in probably five years and have never had a problem. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2013, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-endorsing-signing-the-back-of-a-check-you-deposit-really-necessary/666915/30 "2013-08-24T01:07:51Z")
Heck, banks will even take checks that were not signed on the front by the account holder. My mother used to work in commercial accounting, and this was a common trick used by cash-starved businesses – mail in a check to pay the bill, but the secretary ‘forgot’ to get the owner to sign the check. So mail it back to us and I’ll have him sign it right away. That gives a few days more float time for a cash-starved business. So she had a rubber stamp “Absence of Signature Guaranteed” that she would stamp right in the signature line on the front of the check, and then deposit it. The bank always took them. ---
**Author:** ![runningdude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e9c0ed/32.png) [@runningdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/runningdude)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2013, 5:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-endorsing-signing-the-back-of-a-check-you-deposit-really-necessary/666915/31 "2013-08-24T05:38:46Z")
nm ---
**Author:** ![runningdude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e9c0ed/32.png) [@runningdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/runningdude)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2013, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-endorsing-signing-the-back-of-a-check-you-deposit-really-necessary/666915/32 "2013-08-24T05:41:07Z")
> [@njtt](#): > > To repeat my original question (which Acsenray in no way answered): > > I am well aware that it is the rule (and, no doubt, the law). The question is, what, if anything, is the _point_ of this rule and law? What bad consequences might ensue if this rule were not in place or were not followed or enforced? **What is this risk you mention, that is somehow mitigated by having me sign a check on the back when when I deposit it?** The only risk I can think of is that, with out teh check endorsement rule, some imposter pretending to be me (but unable to forge my signature) might be able get away with depositing checks into my account without my knowledge or consent. That is a risk I am more than willing to take (and I do not see why the bank should be concerned about it either). > > \*\*Given that, in practice, the rule is quite often _not_ followed, and seems to be enforced very laxly, and no disasters seem to ensue, I fairly strongly suspect that the true answer is that there is _no_ good reason for it, it is just the way that things have always been done. \*\*However, I am open to being persuaded that there really is a good reason for it, or that once upon a time there was a good reason. Nothing you or anyone in this thread has said so far, however, goes any distance toward so persuading me. All you have done so far is to restate, with banking jargon, the fact that it is a rule. > [@njtt](#): > > … > \*\*What is this risk you mention, that is somehow mitigated by having me sign a check on the back when when I deposit it? \*\* > … > **Given that, in practice, the rule is quite often _not_ followed, and seems to be enforced very laxly, and no disasters seem to ensue, I fairly strongly suspect that the true answer is that there is _no_ good reason for it, it is just the way that things have always been done.** **I’ve directly answered your question below** , but have provided background as well: Banks tend to trust their customers, especially long standing ones. If an account has no history of fraud, they will happily accept _their customer’s_ unendorsed check for _deposit_. The money from the check is traceable to the depositor’s account, and the bank can put a lien/fee on the account to recover the amount if the check bounces. Little risk to the bank (unless the customer stiffs them and abandons the account). If you go the other way, and _cash_, then the bank will almost certainly require a signature. The person presents the check, the bank hands him cash, and the amount is removed from the check writer’s account, which would completely be untraceable except for the signature or stamp endorsing the check. There is no deposit account with a name on name on which a lien could be placed to recover an errant check. The banks do this to protect their check writing customers. With no deposit record or endorsement, the account holder could never find out which venders got payed if a receipt is missing or withheld, or who to contact if a payment send and deposited at an incorrect vender. **Most directly answering your question then:** The signature on a _deposited_ check is mostly for the depositor’s protection. It is convenient proof that he received a payment, and it is is helpful for this proof to be in the same format as a cashed check (which is still very common). The depositor can use this to help his reputation, by endorsing the check in a manner so that his customers or employer can easily recognize. If not, then the check writer gets an inscrutable account number, which could be frustrating to verify if there were ever a dispute. The check writer might have to subpena the bank to get the name of the account holder, but he could at least theoretically trace where the money went even without endorsement. A bank may require or encourage signatures on deposits out of both tradition as you say and out of encouraging professional courtesy. ---
**Author:** ![discolove](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b19c9b/32.png) [@discolove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/discolove)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2013, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-endorsing-signing-the-back-of-a-check-you-deposit-really-necessary/666915/33 "2013-10-18T23:44:30Z")
I’ve been banking with Wells Fargo for 8 years. I never sign the back of my paychecks and I have never had an issue with it. Recently, I had my car totaled and received a check from my insurance company. I deposited the check and no one asked me to sign the back, didn’t think twice of this. 3 days later it posts to my account so I write a check for a new car. 2 days after the new car check was written wells fargo sends my insurance check back as a return check. I get charged all sorts of overdraft fees and return check fees amounting to $168; they take an obscure amount off my maxed out credit card and cause me to go over the limit with over the limit fees. I freak out. They told me it is my responsibility to endorse my checks. not theirs. they send my check back to my insurance company and tell me the process can take up to 7-10 business days!!! In a panic I have my insurance company void the first check and overnight me a new one. So the very next day I deposit the new check, took care of the mistake immediately. The check cleared 3 days later on the 15th, however, they have placed a hold on my account until the 23rd, even though they have the insurance money and my balance is nearly $2k. I ask them what I can do to get this hold removed, they make me jump through all sorts of hoops and I comply. While all the while I literally have no money to get food or gas to get to work. I have automatic payments that aren’t going through. I get WF records from the insurance company bank verifying the funds have cleared. Wells fargo then tells me my account will not be released of the hold and that my account is scheduled for closure. They tell me my account balance will be applied to my credit card and that I will incur closure fees. This is all so unreal. They are literally robbing me of every penny I have. Please someone tell me this is illegal, unethical, wrong??? I’ve talked to supervisor after supervisor and it all the same conversation which ends in them hanging up on me or asking me to leave. I just don’t understand, they are literally robbing me and getting away with it. I feel so distraught, they don’t care about their customers whatsoever. Who do I contact about this??? I’ve hit a wall. And to answer the originally posted question, yes its important to endorse your checks otherwise you get fucked. Real Hard. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![TruCelt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trucelt/32/523_2.png) [@TruCelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruCelt)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2013, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-endorsing-signing-the-back-of-a-check-you-deposit-really-necessary/666915/34 "2013-10-18T23:57:57Z")
I make my deposits through the ATM, and don’t think I’ve signed one in the past five years at least. Never had a problem. ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2013, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-endorsing-signing-the-back-of-a-check-you-deposit-really-necessary/666915/35 "2013-10-19T00:24:38Z")
> [@discolove](#): > > I’ve been banking with Wells Fargo for 8 years. I never sign the back of my paychecks and I have never had an issue with it. Recently, I had my car totaled and received a check from my insurance company. I deposited the check and no one asked me to sign the back, didn’t think twice of this. 3 days later it posts to my account so I write a check for a new car. 2 days after the new car check was written wells fargo sends my insurance check back as a return check. I get charged all sorts of overdraft fees and return check fees amounting to $168; they take an obscure amount off my maxed out credit card and cause me to go over the limit with over the limit fees. I freak out. They told me it is my responsibility to endorse my checks. not theirs. they send my check back to my insurance company and tell me the process can take up to 7-10 business days!!! In a panic I have my insurance company void the first check and overnight me a new one. So the very next day I deposit the new check, took care of the mistake immediately. The check cleared 3 days later on the 15th, however, they have placed a hold on my account until the 23rd, even though they have the insurance money and my balance is nearly $2k. I ask them what I can do to get this hold removed, they make me jump through all sorts of hoops and I comply. While all the while I literally have no money to get food or gas to get to work. I have automatic payments that aren’t going through. I get WF records from the insurance company bank verifying the funds have cleared. Wells fargo then tells me my account will not be released of the hold and that my account is scheduled for closure. They tell me my account balance will be applied to my credit card and that I will incur closure fees. This is all so unreal. They are literally robbing me of every penny I have. Please someone tell me this is illegal, unethical, wrong??? I’ve talked to supervisor after supervisor and it all the same conversation which ends in them hanging up on me or asking me to leave. I just don’t understand, they are literally robbing me and getting away with it. I feel so distraught, they don’t care about their customers whatsoever. Who do I contact about this??? I’ve hit a wall. And to answer the originally posted question, yes its important to endorse your checks otherwise you get fucked. Real Hard. :smack: Telling you to leave? I can’t imagine why. But I bet that they speak in paragraphs when they do so. ---
**Author:** ![Alley\_Dweller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alley_dweller/32/430_2.png) [@Alley\_Dweller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alley_Dweller)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2013, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-endorsing-signing-the-back-of-a-check-you-deposit-really-necessary/666915/36 "2013-10-19T02:13:34Z")
> [@discolove](#): > > They tell me my account balance will be applied to my credit card and that I will incur closure fees. This is all so unreal. They are literally robbing me of every penny I have. Please someone tell me this is illegal, unethical, wrong??? Unless you have authorized them to make credit card payments from your deposit account, this may be a violation of Regulation Z (12 CFR § 226.12(d)): > [@](#): > > d) Offsets by card issuer prohibited. (1) A card issuer may not take any action, either before or after termination of credit card privileges, to offset a cardholder’s indebtedness arising from a consumer credit transaction under the relevant credit card plan against funds of the cardholder held on deposit with the card issuer. > > (2) This paragraph does not alter or affect the right of a card issuer acting under state or federal law to do any of the following with regard to funds of a cardholder held on deposit with the card issuer if the same procedure is constitutionally available to creditors generally: Obtain or enforce a consensual security interest in the funds; attach or otherwise levy upon the funds; or obtain or enforce a court order relating to the funds. > > (3) This paragraph does not prohibit a plan, if authorized in writing by the cardholder, under which the card issuer may periodically deduct all or part of the cardholder’s credit card debt from a deposit account held with the card issuer (subject to the limitations in § 226.13(d)(1)). Note that this is a special rule that applies to credit cards only. Banks still have the right to offset deposit accounts against other kinds of debts. [Submit a complaint to the CFPB.](http://www.consumerfinance.gov/complaint/) Specifically cite the regulation that you think that bank has violated: 12 CFR § 226.12(d). Note that even if the bank did you wrong by paying off the credit card debt using your checking account, that doesn’t let you off the hook for paying back any money that you may legitimately owe them and they may use other means to collect the debt. But if they’re going to play hardball with you, you might as well return the favor. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2013, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-endorsing-signing-the-back-of-a-check-you-deposit-really-necessary/666915/37 "2013-10-20T17:11:51Z")
Discolove, you need a lawyer right now. It’s of no use to you to tell us about it. For anyone else, the lesson here is that you should always endorse your checks when depositing them, regardless of whether your bank has ever required it. At ant point, they can decide to follow the rules strictly for any one transaction. ---
**Author:** ![gotpasswords](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c57346/32.png) [@gotpasswords](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gotpasswords)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2013, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-endorsing-signing-the-back-of-a-check-you-deposit-really-necessary/666915/38 "2013-10-21T02:36:43Z")
I’ll go out on a limb and guess that **discolove’s** insurance check had some sort of restrictive endorsement such as “This instrument represents settlement in full for the claim referenced on the face of this document and is void unless signed by payee” - insurance companies are funny that way. Otherwise, eons ago, when I was a bank by mail teller, we had a “Prior endorsement guaranteed” stamp that we’d put on checks that were mailed in without endorsement. This goes back to how **runningdude** said banks tend to trust their customers. We assume they meant to deposit the check, and accept it, rather than returning it. ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2013, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-endorsing-signing-the-back-of-a-check-you-deposit-really-necessary/666915/39 "2013-10-21T04:31:31Z")
> [@gotpasswords](#): > > Otherwise, eons ago, when I was a bank by mail teller, we had a “Prior endorsement guaranteed” stamp that we’d put on checks that were mailed in without endorsement. This goes back to how **runningdude** said banks tend to trust their customers. We assume they meant to deposit the check, and accept it, rather than returning it. Yep, a “For Deposit Only”\* stamp works most of the time. Exceptions are checks with wording like you mention, in particular I remember US Gov’t Social Security/Disability checks had this requirement. Sometimes had irate customers who say they are depositing it for their husband but his work doesn’t let him go to the bank when it’s open and they need the money today etc. But I also saw many times where the government took the money back and issued a new one (it has a picture of the original check on it (maybe not same number), but shrunk in size and with more info around it). \*I think it said other things too, can’t remember. Something about the bank guaranteeing it? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-endorsing-signing-the-back-of-a-check-you-deposit-really-necessary/666915.md?page=1)